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Topic: ogg multichannel (Read 15838 times) previous topic - next topic
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ogg multichannel

Reply #25 –
DA, great news, congratulations !!

when are you planning to release HeadAC3he including the new vorbis.dll ? Is SSRC implementation done ?

A link please ! I will update our news page and start betatesting immediately ....

ogg multichannel

Reply #26 –
Depending on how much problems I'll have, SSRC support should be added in a few day till a week. But you can have an alpha version in the meanwhile to play around, if you like... (email me)

Once SSRC is in, I'll make an official release.

ogg multichannel

Reply #27 –
Hey DA, very interesting work there. I just talked to some of the Vorbis developers on IRC about your progress and I found out that the floating point interface has already been done but not commited in CVS yet. They are interested to look at your multi-channel stuffs on their mailing list though, could you post them your patch?

They are on the vorbis-dev list at http://www.xiph.org/archives/

Thanks

ogg multichannel

Reply #28 –
Uhh, I have no idea which email to take, I'll just try the best sounding one.  In fact I've already mailed A.Faber, but didn't get a reply yet.

Wait, these are mailing lists, how can I send anything there?:confused:

ogg multichannel

Reply #29 –
Quote
Wait, these are mailing lists, how can I send anything there?

Look at
http://www.xiph.org/archives/
for mailing list info, archives, and subscription instructions. Given that you are doing Vorbis development, you want to subscribe/send to either .

ogg multichannel

Reply #30 –
Quote
Originally posted by Jon Ingram
Given that you are doing Vorbis development


dont you dare to grab DA from us, he's a slave of the DivX community and has to code audio transcoding utility for us  ....

ogg multichannel

Reply #31 –
Quote
Originally posted by ChristianHJW


dont you dare to grab DA from us, he's a slave of the DivX community and has to code audio transcoding utility for us   ....


No!! He's MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE!!! *crack whip*

Erk.. does kind of disgusting doesn't it?

ogg multichannel

Reply #32 –
Actually I don't want to become a vorbis developer, as I am not good enough for that task. I just made the necessary fixes for the dll and now I am happy.

So I subscirde to the dev email, may I just send the .c and .h as attached file to it?

ogg multichannel

Reply #33 –
Quote
Actually I don't want to become a vorbis developer

Well ok, you're just doing development with Vorbis, then
It's always safer not to attach files to mailing lists - there always tend to be cranky people subscribed... Also, the development mailing list seems very quiet at the moment, for some reason.

ogg multichannel

Reply #34 –
Aarghh, but where should I send the .c and .h then?

ogg multichannel

Reply #35 –
Time for a shameful bump;)

So I've been testing D A's new HeadAC3he 0.21alpha 3 with multichannel Ogg files. I can say that it works absolutely great!!! Great work D A!!

From the AC3 encoding tests I've performed it does appear I have 6 sperate channels of sound which includes my subwoofer. The problem still exists with playing the Ogg file in WinAmp to where the center channel is mapped to the right front speaker. Is this a problem with the WinAmp plugin that I'm using? Anyone else had this problem or solved the issue?

Thanks again D A for your great effort:)

ogg multichannel

Reply #36 –
Ja bin ich denn vom Affen gebissen ...... MaTTer, do you wonna tell me that DA's HeadAC3he can transcode a 5.1 AC3 to a 6 channel Vorbis ? I had no idea this is working right now, not even that multi channel is being supported from current dll's ! What's your average bitrate ? Despite the problem what channel is played by which speaker, do you think all channels are there ?

ogg multichannel

Reply #37 –
Chris,

That is correct. D A can provide more details but yes from what little testing I've done today, D A seems to have performed a miracle;)

I'm hearing 6 different channels on my home theater system while playing the Ogg through WinAmp using the OggDS filter. Actually I guess you could say I'm only hearing 5 channels since the center channel is being mapped incorrectly. If it weren't for this problem then life would be nice. Also another note, the rear surround volumes were a little loud for my liking but I can turn the gain down in HeadAC3he, I forgot to while doing the encode.

AFAIK D A has modified the DLL for multichannel. I might be wrong but that was my understanding. In regards to my average bitrate...I was using a quality of 4.9 and WinAmp reported this as being an average of around 312K. I want to do some more testing today for much lower bitrates. A 312K Ogg file is useless for DivX, might as well keep the AC3 5.1:)

ogg multichannel

Reply #38 –
Testing it right now, quality 2.5, this will take a bit longer than with a 2 channel track of course, so i expect 90 mins at least.

BTW : How can things like channel coupling ( Stereo, Joint Stereo ) be set for Vorbis ? Is there a possibility to set a 'reference channel' and 'slave channel' or more of them ?
This will be of high importance if we start to create 6 channel Vorbis streams with 3 Stereo tracks in 3 different languages. It should be possible to define the 2 channels with main language ( english f.e. ) as the two 'reference' tracks ( no channel coupling for them ) and then encode the 4 additional channels ( 2 more languages ) with channel coupling. As a result we only encode the difference of each channel to the reference channel, being the language only ( noise, sund, etc. is the same ).

ogg multichannel

Reply #39 –
Well, the dll has to be modified for that (and I fear I know who is the one who has to do it). But before I put more effort in the dll, get PP to work on his winamp plugin and/or a mc DSfilter for ogg. A 6ch file which can't be decoded properly won't help too much...

ogg multichannel

Reply #40 –
@Chris and other Dualie users

For those of you using Dual CPU systems you might like to know that when encoding to Ogg I'm noticing that HeadAC3he is using about 70% of both processors. This is much better compared to the 50% I was gettting. Is Ogg encoding somehow multithreaded or has D A tuned his application for SMP use?

ogg multichannel

Reply #41 –
No, I only have a seperate I/O thread, so a few % you will gain on disk transfers.

ogg multichannel

Reply #42 –
Quote
Originally posted by DarkAvenger
Well, the dll has to be modified for that (and I fear I know who is the one who has to do it).




Quote
But before I put more effort in the dll, get PP to work on his winamp plugin and/or a mc DSfilter for ogg. A 6ch file which can't be decoded properly won't help too much...


ingo or Tobias would be the guys who could do so. ingo informed me today he would like to be taken from the PowerDivX.com forums ( and he did the same on all other forums he said ), so i guess he is fully concentrating on his exams now and was doing a clear cut until then ( being a very sensible thing to do .... i did a similar cut almost 2 years ago when my marriage was in danger ). So we cant expect too much from him before June or July. He informed me that he had been doing major work in the past weeks to remove all M$ classes from the source code, so he would be able to compile his sources for other OS also. The investment in his filter is so huge, i am sure he will return if his exams are finished and contribute to the project again.

Speaking of Tobias' , nobody even had a clue he had done a DSF of his own, even Monty didnt know. He only showed up one or two times at powerdivx.com forums, but he had uploaded two updated versions of his soft within 1 week only, so he is maybe the guy who could do it .....

ogg multichannel

Reply #43 –
So I guess it is up to you to tell him what to do.

ogg multichannel

Reply #44 –
Ouch! Just when I thought we were really close.

June or July is along time from now:( Perhaps the problem isn't with the DLL but maybe the plugin?

ogg multichannel

Reply #46 –
Great news folks. Tobias has recently promised to work on a DSF that will map the channels properly.

I have a question though. How far along is the channel coupling code? The reason I ask is that it appears when encoding a MC Ogg, it's giving all channels about the same amount of bitrate. For example...With HeadAC3he 0.21a7, using quality 1.9 I'm getting an average of 64k/bitrate per channel (6 * 64=384). A 384k bitrate Ogg file would be useless for backing up my DVD's, I'd just use the original AC3 for that matter.

So is the channel coupling not kicking in properly within the vorbis.dll? Or is it just the fact that my 5.1 AC3 file does have complex streams in the rear channels and this is why it's using most of the bitrate as other channels so? Perhaps I'm wrong but I just assumed the rear channels, center channel and possibly the LFE wouldn't require as much bitrate as the main front channels would.

Any insight, advice or feedback is much appreciated:)

ogg multichannel

Reply #47 –
Quote
Originally posted by MaTTeR

So is the channel coupling not kicking in properly within the vorbis.dll?


Because the vorbis libs only have a coupling layout for standard stereo files.

If you want to couple 5.1, you'd ideally want to use a mapping that knows about which channels you want to couple with which others. The current libs don't have that information yet.

--
GCP

ogg multichannel

Reply #48 –
Quote
Originally posted by Garf
Because the vorbis libs only have a coupling layout for standard stereo files.
If you want to couple 5.1, you'd ideally want to use a mapping that knows about which channels you want to couple with which others. The current libs don't have that information yet.


DA , Tobias and myself will try to work out some standard mapping profiles, like

2 language Stereo ( 4 channels, 2 masters, 2 slaves )
3 language Stereo ( 6 channels, 2 masters, 4 slaves )
5.1 one language ( 6 channels, 3 masters, 3 slaves )
7.1 one language ( 8 channels, 3 masters, 5 slaves )
5.1 two languages ( 9 channels, 3 masters, 6 slaves )

But DA stated already he doubt that it will be possible to make a dual language 5.1 stream with 9 channels only ( by leaving surround and LFE channel as is and simply adding L,R and center in a 2nd language ).

Regarding channel coupling for 5.1 :

Instead of coupling f.e. the surround channels to the L,R or Center ( which doesnt make sense, does it, there will be hardly any common information ), wouldnt it be possible to select a very low bitrate for those instead ?
Does the existing vorbis support different qualities ( bitrates ) for encoding of the individual channels ??

Thanks for your input anyway Garf .... at least one of the moderators here seems to be interested what we are doing with Vorbis now

ogg multichannel

Reply #49 –
Shouldn't the channels just be coupled based on how similar they are? Perhaps automagically, during encoding.