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Topic: Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound? (Read 14152 times) previous topic - next topic
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Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #25 –
Quote from: HTS on
Actually I now think that it is an EQ thing, the Zune doesn't have an EQ, and it's default factory setting is too bright. I think I need the fiio amp for a bass boost to get the sounds that I want.


First things first, the RMAA of the Zune 80 is pretty much flat Anandtech.  So the default factory setting is not too bright.  It is accurately representing the music as it was recorded.  "Brightness" typically comes from the recording itself or from whatever is going on with the headphone in the treble area.

Wanting more bass is a personal preference and yes the Fiio can do this.

My guess is that the "environmental" effects of your sound card are doing more than just adding bass.  It may be trying to mimic the soundstage you get from speakers.  This is similar to Dolby Headphone or some "Stereo Widening" effects you see on portable music players.  You do get an increased sense of reverberation, space, etc with these types of effects.  So just buying a Fiio to boost the bass may not satisfy you.

BTW, what sound card are you using?  Is the environmental effect being forced because you are it set to headphone mode?  Setting it to speaker mode may disable these effects.

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #26 –
Quote from: HTS on
I think all I need is a bass boost, and the fiio e5 should be a cheap way to do that right?


I'm getting the impression that all you are looking for is not information but affirmation to buy what you wanted in the first place. There are better forums to give you that.

First you ask how to make "your" HD 600 sound like "your" HD 555. Then you jiggle around with terms like harmonic overtones and reverberation, that you don't seem to have understood, and where it all leads in the end is that the HD 555 vs. HD 600 question is dropped and all you want is your Zune, which is reported to have excellent, linear sound quality, to sound like a crappy sound card.

Sounds more like Skullcandy than HD 600 territory to me...

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #27 –
Quote from: rpp3po on
Quote from: HTS on
I think all I need is a bass boost, and the fiio e5 should be a cheap way to do that right?


I'm getting the impression that all you are looking for is not information but affirmation to buy what you wanted in the first place. There are better forums to give you that.

First you ask how to make "your" HD 600 sound like "your" HD 555. Then you jiggle around with terms like harmonic overtones and reverberation, that you don't seem to have understood, and where it all leads in the end is that the HD 555 vs. HD 600 question is dropped and all you want is your Zune, which is reported to have excellent, linear sound quality, to sound like a crappy sound card.

Sounds more like Skullcandy than HD 600 territory to me...

I'm not interested in your inputs, if all you can say is how I can't understand anything and my sound card must suck, then find someone else to put down and mis interpret.

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My guess is that the "environmental" effects of your sound card are doing more than just adding bass. It may be trying to mimic the soundstage you get from speakers. This is similar to Dolby Headphone or some "Stereo Widening" effects you see on portable music players. You do get an increased sense of reverberation, space, etc with these types of effects. So just buying a Fiio to boost the bass may not satisfy you.
Are there any MP3 players that does that?

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BTW, what sound card are you using? Is the environmental effect being forced because you are it set to headphone mode? Setting it to speaker mode may disable these effects.
I use the Halo from HTOmega, and no, setting it to speaker mode doesn't remove the environmental effects.

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #28 –
Quote from: odigg on
First things first, the RMAA of the Zune 80 is pretty much flat Anandtech.


So after two threads of people saying unloaded RMAA tests are useless, you give us unloaded test results

But I guess 300Ohms is high enough that it might not be too different from unloaded.

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #29 –
Quote
Are there any MP3 players that does that?

My Nokia 5800 has this.  I think a number of Cowon products do with this "3D surround" effect but you'd have to look for a review.  I don't own a Cowon product so I cannot comment on it.  There is also SRS Wow which is on some iriver players and apparently you can install it on Windows Mobile phones.

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I use the Halo from HTOmega, and no, setting it to speaker mode doesn't remove the environmental effects.


The HT Omega Claro Halo?  The One with the TI Headphone amp opamp?  I used to own this card and I was able to turn off all environmental effects.  Maybe there is a setting you have missed?  Maybe you need a driver update?  This sound card is excellent for stereo listening!

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So after two threads of people saying unloaded RMAA tests are useless, you give us unloaded test results


BAH HUMBUG!  I've got your loaded RMAA test right here!

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #30 –
Quote from: odigg on
The HT Omega Claro Halo?  The One with the TI Headphone amp opamp?  I used to own this card and I was able to turn off all environmental effects.  Maybe there is a setting you have missed?  Maybe you need a driver update?  This sound card is excellent for stereo listening!

It is because of their new driver update that you can't turn off the effects. The old drivers were more flexible in options.

I think it is because of the surround effect that I liked, because the HD555 is the only sennheiser headphone to have a surround reflector built in.

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #31 –
Quote from: HTS on
I'm not interested in your inputs, if all you can say is how I can't understand anything and my sound card must suck, then find someone else to put down and mis interpret.


There isn't really much to misinterpret. As I have said, either the sound card sucks or you are providing inaccurate information (now that I know it is a Halo, the latter seems more likely). DSP, equalizer, and environmental effects should be pretty easy to switch off for your card and you haven't told us which you have left on and want to emulate on the Zune.

If they aren't switched on, which you remain unclear about, it is very unlikely that the Halo is adding reverbation or harmonic distortion (overtones) as you claim. As already mentioned by odigg it is much more probable, and we have had this time and again here, that you are getting fooled by absolute volume differences or have a 3D DSP effect applied that you didn't identify, yet.

PS Now you are writing they can't be switched off for your new drivers. Seems fairly unlikely for a card in this market segment. Are you talking about that "environment size" from above? Isn't that silently ignored when you tell it to bypass effects?

The whole discussion doesn't make much sense with the information we have. Find out which one of the Halo's sound effects you want emulated. A fiio won't help for sure when you want reverberation, for example.

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #32 –
Quote from: HTS on
It is because of their new driver update that you can't turn off the effects. The old drivers were more flexible in options.

I would suggest you contact HT Omega about this.  It is difficult for me to believe there is no setting for turning off the effects. I have emailed HT Omega before with a very technical question (about the PCI Bus of Claro) and they responded in less than 24hours with a good answer.

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I think it is because of the surround effect that I liked, because the HD555 is the only sennheiser headphone to have a surround reflector built in.

Reflector?  I've not heard of such a thing.  The HD555 has angled drivers and this typically results in more spacious soundstage.  IMHO the HD555 also has a slightly "bloated" bass response so you may prefer that to the HD600.

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #33 –
Instead of RMAA testing some random sound card, perhaps testing the actual Zune would be a good idea.  I mean its the Zune you want to know about . . .

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #34 –
Quote from: odigg on
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I think it is because of the surround effect that I liked, because the HD555 is the only sennheiser headphone to have a surround reflector built in.

Reflector?  I've not heard of such a thing.  The HD555 has angled drivers and this typically results in more spacious soundstage.  IMHO the HD555 also has a slightly "bloated" bass response so you may prefer that to the HD600.


There is also a small raised part at the back of the phone where it would sit close to the rear edge of the ear, and which is meant I believe to reflect sound.  The tilt is slight.

I have not noticed any "surround" effect resulting from these things myself.  Voices in the center channel are still firmly placed inside my head, if slightly forward.  Binaural effects such as those at the end of "Another Brick in the Wall (Part 2) form "The Wall" are percieved outside the head a few inches to the right, with no hint of any surround effect that I detect.  The IE8s seem to me to have much more of a "3d" effect for my ears, at of course a much higher cost.

But these are only subjective impressions and others may hear things differently.
Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #35 –
Quote from: Ed Seedhouse on
Quote from: odigg on
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I think it is because of the surround effect that I liked, because the HD555 is the only sennheiser headphone to have a surround reflector built in.

Reflector?  I've not heard of such a thing.  The HD555 has angled drivers and this typically results in more spacious soundstage.  IMHO the HD555 also has a slightly "bloated" bass response so you may prefer that to the HD600.

There is also a small raised part at the back of the phone where it would sit close to the rear edge of the ear, and which is meant I believe to reflect sound.  The tilt is slight.

No, that is a damping device, the surround reflector is different. A guy from sennheiser told me this.

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There isn't really much to misinterpret. As I have said, either the sound card sucks or you are providing inaccurate information (now that I know it is a Halo, the latter seems more likely). DSP, equalizer, and environmental effects should be pretty easy to switch off for your card and you haven't told us which you have left on and want to emulate on the Zune.
There is no such thing as "inaccurate information" on my part, as I have already posted, it is because of the surround effects of the sound card/hd555 that makes the HD600 with the zune sound more plain. I called that surround effect "reverberance", "resonance" etc... which is very accurate. At the beginning I thought it was because some bass boost feature of the sound card that caused this, but my description of the acoustic effects of the HD555/sound card vs HD600/zune is very accurate. I list my empirical observations first with terms such as "resonant", which is where scientific investigation starts at, the senses.

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PS Now you are writing they can't be switched off for your new drivers. Seems fairly unlikely for a card in this market segment. Are you talking about that "environment size" from above? Isn't that silently ignored when you tell it to bypass effects?
Yes, it is the "environment size" thing, but I don't see anything like a bypass button.

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The whole discussion doesn't make much sense with the information we have.
You are not following my thoughts in this thread as a whole, and are isolating bits of information out of context. I can't understand how you understood me because your description of my position is incoherent.

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #36 –
I really don't get the problem. Why don't you just use the 555 with your Zune and the 600 with your sound card? You say both sound card and 555 add the reverberation you're after and both phones would find a use.

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #37 –
Quote from: rpp3po on
I really don't get the problem. Why don't you just use the 555 with your Zune and the 600 with your sound card? You say both sound card and 555 add the reverberation you're after and both phones would find a use.

Because the HD600 is more expensive and I like to use it whenever I can or else it feels that I got ripped off.  Because I'm really not that impressed over any "improvement" it may have over the HD555.

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #38 –
Quote from: HTS on
Quote from: rpp3po on
I really don't get the problem. Why don't you just use the 555 with your Zune and the 600 with your sound card? You say both sound card and 555 add the reverberation you're after and both phones would find a use.

Because the HD600 is more expensive and I like to use it whenever I can or else it feels that I got ripped off.  Because I'm really not that impressed over any "improvement" it may have over the HD555.


If they're more expensive and you like them less then I suppose you did get ripped off.

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #39 –
Quote from: HTS on
Because the HD600 is more expensive and I like to use it whenever I can or else it feels that I got ripped off.  Because I'm really not that impressed over any "improvement" it may have over the HD555.


Congratulations, you've learned about another benefit of the headphone reviews on the typical headphone sites.  The expensive headphones are always the best ones!  After all, they must be expensive for a reason!

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #40 –


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Congratulations, you've learned about another benefit of the headphone reviews on the typical headphone sites. The expensive headphones are always the best ones! After all, they must be expensive for a reason!
Don't assume my mindset, the headphone sites were not a big influence on me wanting to get a more expensive headphone than the HD555.

Using an amp or headphone for coloring sound?

Reply #41 –
Quote from: HTS on
Don't assume my mindset, the headphone sites were not a big influence on me wanting to get a more expensive headphone than the HD555.


I was just making a joke!