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Topic: Is WAVE the same as PCM (Read 14149 times) previous topic - next topic
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Is WAVE the same as PCM

Hello,

Sorry for my noobish questions once again. When I convert my FLAC tracks to WAVE via dbpoweramp and play them in foobar2000, it says PCM on the player. The file itself is in Wave, but why does it say PCM. Thanks for your help.

Carlo

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Ferrari5180 on
Hello,

Sorry for my noobish questions once again. When I convert my FLAC tracks to WAVE via dbpoweramp and play them in foobar2000, it says PCM on the player. The file itself is in Wave, but why does it say PCM. Thanks for your help.


WAV is a file format used to store PCM audio (and less commonly other audio formats like MP3).

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #2 –
WAV is the so called "audio container". PCM is the encoding method used in WAV, AIFF and audio cds for storing uncompressed data.

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #3 –
Think of PCM as toothpaste, and WAV as the tube it comes in.

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #4 –
Alright, so thanks for the quick replies. In other words, I am converting my FLAC files correctly to Wave even though it says PCM. Right? PCM is pretty much wave, just a codec.

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #5 –
Yes. It was already answered that the WAV format is basically just a container for PCM audio. To expand: Most WAV files are just PCM audio streams prefixed by a header that specifies their length, sampling rate, etc. so that programs know how to play/process them correctly. Nothing to be concerned about. (AIFF files are almost exactly the same.)

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Ferrari5180 on
In other words, I am converting my FLAC files correctly to Wave even though it says PCM.


Its WAV, theres no 'E'.  But yes, thats probably what you're trying to do. 

Quote from: Ferrari5180 on
Right? PCM is pretty much wave, just a codec.


Not really.  PCM is the format the audio is in (the codec), WAV is the container on the hard disk storing the PCM.  Let me try this again:

FLAC and WAV are both ways of storing something on a hard disk.  That 'thing' for FLAC is always going to be losslessly compressed PCM.  That 'thing' for WAV can be PCM, MP3, ADPCM, or almost anything else.  When you decode a FLAC file you're trying to get the PCM out, not WAV.  If you're on Windows you might then choose to put the PCM into a WAV file for storage.  But you could just as well choose to put it into AIFF, ASF, MKA, AU, RAW, etc holding the same audio (this is very common on non-Windows systems for instance).    You could even choose to put it in nothing at all and just play it out the sound card (this is what foobar is doing when you play a FLAC).

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #7 –
Out of interest, why does the OP want to extract FLAC files to WAV before playing them in Foobar2000? It's a pointless exercise. 

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #8 –
Probably some mistaken belief that lossless compression affects the "sound" of the audio. (And even if that were the case, the data would have already been changed, so converting to PCM would make no difference anyway.)

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #9 –
Actually, its to burn audio to a disc. I never said anywhere that I believed FLAC affected the sound of an audio file, so it seems pointless making that assumption. Nevertheless, thanks for all your responses. All is clear for me now.

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Ferrari5180 on
Actually, its to burn audio to a disc. I never said anywhere that I believed FLAC affected the sound of an audio file, so it seems pointless making that assumption. Nevertheless, thanks for all your responses. All is clear for me now.


foobar can burn CDs directly without you manually converting them to WAV.  Thats probably why people are a little confused why you would be making WAVs.

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #13 –
Quote from: saratoga on
Quote from: Ferrari5180 on
Actually, its to burn audio to a disc. I never said anywhere that I believed FLAC affected the sound of an audio file, so it seems pointless making that assumption. Nevertheless, thanks for all your responses. All is clear for me now.


foobar can burn CDs directly without you manually converting them to WAV.  Thats probably why people are a little confused why you would be making WAVs.


I would use foobar, but from what I read, they do not offer support for CD-TEXT files such as CUE Sheets. I have cue sheets with all my albums. It would be a shame to neglect to use them. What I usually do is convert my audio from Flac to Wav, Test the Wav files audio to see if its perfects, then convert Wav to MP3 Lame CBR 320 for my MP3. I need the files in Wav temporarily to test my Cue Sheets and see if they are all set correctly. Let me know if I am doing something the long way or something. Thanks

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Ferrari5180 on
I would use foobar, but from what I read, they do not offer support for CD-TEXT files such as CUE Sheets.

The term CD-TEXT has a specific meaning, and it has nothing to do with cue sheets.

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Ferrari5180 on
What I usually do is convert my audio from Flac to Wav, Test the Wav files audio to see if its perfects, then convert Wav to MP3 Lame CBR 320 for my MP3.

FLAC would tell you if there were any errors that resulted in the decoded audio being different. Lossless is lossless, trust it. And you can edit the cuesheet to reference the FLACs, which will work fine with players/burners that support FLAC.

Also, foobar2000 can load and play files from cue sheets, FLAC included, but I don't know if it writes the extra info (non-01 INDEXes, CD-Text*, CATALOG, etc.) to the disc.

* CD-Text is just an addition to the audio CD standard that allows some metadata to be stored on the CD. This metadata can be stored in cue sheets, but relatively few CDs actually have CD-Text, and users ripping those without just add the data themselves (i.e. to get a 'more identical' copy, disable writing it).

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Ferrari5180 on
Quote from: saratoga on
Quote from: Ferrari5180 on
Actually, its to burn audio to a disc. I never said anywhere that I believed FLAC affected the sound of an audio file, so it seems pointless making that assumption. Nevertheless, thanks for all your responses. All is clear for me now.


foobar can burn CDs directly without you manually converting them to WAV.  Thats probably why people are a little confused why you would be making WAVs.


I would use foobar, but from what I read, they do not offer support for CD-TEXT files such as CUE Sheets. I have cue sheets with all my albums. It would be a shame to neglect to use them. What I usually do is convert my audio from Flac to Wav, Test the Wav files audio to see if its perfects, then convert Wav to MP3 Lame CBR 320 for my MP3. I need the files in Wav temporarily to test my Cue Sheets and see if they are all set correctly. Let me know if I am doing something the long way or something. Thanks

Would Burrrn not work for you?  http://www.burrrn.net/?page_id=4
Pretty much drag'n'drop, has CD-TEXT, converts temporarily to Wav, etc... 

Quote
I need the files in Wav temporarily to test my Cue Sheets and see if they are all set correctly.

Not sure I understand.  You mean because of the filenames?  XXXX.wav?
I want NBC's Ed on DVD/Blu-ray!

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #17 –
Quote from: redsandvb on
Would Burrrn not work for you?  http://www.burrrn.net/?page_id=4
Pretty much drag'n'drop, has CD-TEXT, converts temporarily to Wav, etc...

Any program burning an audio CD must have the audio in PCM format before doing so, whether through being supplied WAV/AIFF files or decoding other formats to PCM in memory. If it doesn't support the format of one's files, one can convert them to one of the former and pass them instead, but saying it "converts temporarily to WAV" is incorrect (especially in this topic) and also somewhat implies that decompressed audio is somehow superior.

Quote
Not sure I understand.  You mean because of the filenames?  XXXX.wav?

I'm assuming so. I noted above that applications such as foobar2000 and Burrrn support other formats in combination with cue sheets.

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #18 –
As a matter of interest, what do the initials PCM stand for - I've often wondered.
Thunder Bolt

Strikes where least expected!

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #21 –
Quote from: dv1989 on
Quote from: redsandvb on
Would Burrrn not work for you?  http://www.burrrn.net/?page_id=4
Pretty much drag'n'drop, has CD-TEXT, converts temporarily to Wav, etc...

Any program burning an audio CD must have the audio in PCM format before doing so, whether through being supplied WAV/AIFF files or decoding other formats to PCM in memory. If it doesn't support the format of one's files, one can convert them to one of the former and pass them instead, but saying it "converts temporarily to WAV" is incorrect (especially in this topic) and also somewhat implies that decompressed audio is somehow superior.

Quote
Not sure I understand.  You mean because of the filenames?  XXXX.wav?

I'm assuming so. I noted above that applications such as foobar2000 and Burrrn support other formats in combination with cue sheets.

Obviously a better explanation of the burning process of an audio cd than I'm capable of.
But, ya know, I think Burrrn actually does convert to WAV ...or at least appears to.  Prior to the actual burn its Temp folder fills up with WAV files (that disappear after the burn is done and you exit the program).  I thought one of the good things about Burrrn was that it puts temp files on disk prior to burning, rather than taking up memory/resources/whatever during the burn process?

BTW, didn't really see your posts about editing the cue sheets to reference .flac instead of .wav.  Just sorta scanned thru the posts my first time...

Anyway, my posts are pretty much off-topic, just wanted to mention Burrrn to the OP.  Maybe it could help simplify his burning routine a tad...

I want NBC's Ed on DVD/Blu-ray!

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #22 –
It's cool dude. All my questions have been answered. However, I am going to have to take a look into Burrn  Ty

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #23 –
redsandvb, apologies for my error. As happens too often, it was based on an assumption--which was probably somewhat related to the common question of whether or not one should decode lossless formats to WAV before encoding to lossy, etc. Burrrn's way of doing things may be more common than I thought.

Is WAVE the same as PCM

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Ferrari5180 on
It's cool dude. All my questions have been answered. However, I am going to have to take a look into Burrn  Ty

Hope it works for you.  I should probably mention that using it with external drives might be tricky.  I had to put Nero's wnaspi32.dll in Burrrn's program folder and tinker a bit with the settings for it to see my drives.  I only got it to work with one of my two external drives.  If you need it this link is still alive, ftp6.nero.com/wnaspi32.dll.

Quote from: dv1989 on
redsandvb, apologies for my error. As happens too often, it was based on an assumption--which was probably somewhat related to the common question of whether or not one should decode lossless formats to WAV before encoding to lossy, etc. Burrrn's way of doing things may be more common than I thought.

No problemo. 
I want NBC's Ed on DVD/Blu-ray!