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Topic: Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help (Read 21515 times) previous topic - next topic
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Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

OK. I had been looking at getting a new phone for my portable music, but instead got a cheaper phone and opted for a new 5th gen iPod Nano. All good so far until i get some music onto it. WTF? It's so quiet!. Check the 'volume limit' in settings is on maximum and it's still too quiet. It just can't power my Sennheiser HD 485 headphones, which I don't believe (correct me if I'm wrong) are particularly difficult to drive. After spending some time googling, I can't seem to find any software that can remove the EU volume limit on 5g Nanos.

Here's a list of thoughts at the moment.

1. Find something that will remove the EU volume limit from the 5g Nano

2. Find US firmware to replace the EU one. Not sure if it would work or even cure it.

3 Convert my flacs to aac with Foobar and apply additional volume on conversion. Haven't done this yet as I can't seem to make my conversions any louder. I remember someone on HA made a really good guide in pdf format regarding ipod conversions and replaygain, but I can't seem to find it. Any help would be appreciated.

4. Replace my Sennys with a pair of headphones with higher sensitivity. I read someone who defeated this problem with a pair of Shure SE530, but I would be looking for headphones, not earphones. Has anyone had experience ipod volume boosting using headphones with high sensitivity?

5. Send my Nano back within the next 5 days and never buy another iPod ever again

So I am so disappinted with this purchase and have the French to thank for this. Surely I'm now alone on this and other must be suffering too. In the present state, I really don't see EU ipods as been at all usuable.

All tips and advice would be most appreciated.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #1 –
Just in case, I had a little noise in an iPod classic with a Shure E500 and a Westone UM2. I had to use an attenuator with those.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #2 –
How about a line-out dock/adapter and a small headphone amp?

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #3 –
What makes you so sure it is an artificial limit? I think small battery powered devices will always struggle to power heavy headphones.

Chances are that you if you swap it for a similarly sized device from another manufacturer you will encounter the same issue.
Every night with my star friends / We eat caviar and drink champagne
Sniffing in the VIP area / We talk about Frank Sinatra
Do you know Frank Sinatra? / He's dead

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Maurits on
What makes you so sure it is an artificial limit?


France already has a 100 dB limit and the EU as a whole is going to implement something similar.  Several other manufacturers volume limit their devices when using EU firmware, or region is set to EU.  I know this to be the case with my Sansa and iRiver players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipod

Quote
From the 5th generation iPod on, Apple introduced a user-configurable volume limit in response to concerns about hearing loss.[43] Users report that in the 6th generation iPod, the maximum volume output level is limited to 100 dB in EU markets. Apple previously had to remove iPods from shelves in France for exceeding this legal limit.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8410302.stm

Quote
The European Commission is calling for a suggested maximum volume to be set on MP3 players, to protect users' hearing.

The commission wants all MP3 players sold in the EU, including iPods, to share the same volume limits.

This follows a report last year warning that up to 10m people in the EU face permanent hearing loss from listening to loud music for prolonged periods.

EU experts want the default maximum setting to be 85 decibels, according to BBC One's Politics Show.

Users would be able to override this setting to reach a top limit of 100 decibels.

In January, a two-month consultation of all EU standardisation bodies will begin on these proposals, with a final agreement expected in the spring.

Some personal players examined in testing facilities have been found to reach 120 decibels, the equivalent of a jet taking off, and no safety default level currently applies, although manufacturers are obliged to print information about risks in the instruction manuals.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Takla on
Quote from: Maurits on
What makes you so sure it is an artificial limit?


France already has a 100 dB limit and the EU as a whole is going to implement something similar.  Several other manufacturers volume limit their devices when using EU firmware, or region is set to EU.  I know this to be the case with my Sansa and iRiver players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipod

Quote
From the 5th generation iPod on, Apple introduced a user-configurable volume limit in response to concerns about hearing loss.[43] Users report that in the 6th generation iPod, the maximum volume output level is limited to 100 dB in EU markets. Apple previously had to remove iPods from shelves in France for exceeding this legal limit.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8410302.stm

Quote
The European Commission is calling for a suggested maximum volume to be set on MP3 players, to protect users' hearing.

The commission wants all MP3 players sold in the EU, including iPods, to share the same volume limits.

This follows a report last year warning that up to 10m people in the EU face permanent hearing loss from listening to loud music for prolonged periods.

EU experts want the default maximum setting to be 85 decibels, according to BBC One's Politics Show.

Users would be able to override this setting to reach a top limit of 100 decibels.

In January, a two-month consultation of all EU standardisation bodies will begin on these proposals, with a final agreement expected in the spring.

Some personal players examined in testing facilities have been found to reach 120 decibels, the equivalent of a jet taking off, and no safety default level currently applies, although manufacturers are obliged to print information about risks in the instruction manuals.


Sure, I am well aware the EU has set a maximum volume for portable players. What I ask is why the original poster is convinced that his iPod and headphones don't go together that well because of this EU limit. Why is this not the inevitable limitation of using power hungry headphones on a small battery operated device...
Every night with my star friends / We eat caviar and drink champagne
Sniffing in the VIP area / We talk about Frank Sinatra
Do you know Frank Sinatra? / He's dead

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #6 –
I don't know how the "driveability" of the headphones compare, but my HD 280s can run fairly loud on an older gen iPod Nano.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #7 –
Can some explain how a DAP can limit it's volume to exactly 100 dB anyway? Doesn't it always depend on the headphones and how sensitive they are?

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #8 –
Quote from: me7 on
Can some explain how a DAP can limit it's volume to exactly 100 dB anyway? Doesn't it always depend on the headphones and how sensitive they are?


Yes, I would like to know this too. What we do know is that the volume out of EU players is substantially lower and it's totally over the top. I'm guessing this is the same with not just the Nanos, but also the Touch and Classic.

During the weekend I realised that, although my Sennheiser HD 485 have a 110db sensitivity, they are indeed suitable (just) with modern CD masters which are very loud. My initial test material was some old 70s/80s CDs which were around 86db and had not been Replay Gained - so they were VERY quiet. Perhaps I could reencode the flacs to Nero m4a with a +6 RG equalling 95db. Would you recommend this crude semi-solution?

Perhaps if I can find some highly sensitive phones like the Shure at an affordable price, it would be the best way to go. Does anyone know phones like the the Shure 485 (119db) at a respectable price?

Failing that, a friend is going to The States this summer so I could get him to brind a US model back.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #9 –
Quote from: me7 on
Can some explain how a DAP can limit it's volume to exactly 100 dB anyway? Doesn't it always depend on the headphones and how sensitive they are?


Its actually 100dB with the included headphones.  Since 99% of people don't buy new headphones, the idea is that most people will be protected from hearing loss.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #10 –
So that'll open up a new marked for high-db earphones in the EU... lol

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #11 –
I have a US ipod touch and had some SENNHEISER eh 150's.  Yours are 110dB according to newegg and myn are 115dB.  So I just wanted to tell you I have used mp3 gain to get all my albums to 89db and my ipod touch pushes my eh 150's and other headphones way to loud.  I would actually use my SENNHEISERs as speakers instead of the ipod speaker sometimes because they ware almost as loud and sounded better.  Even if I set the volume limit to halfway I would be happy with the volume while listening.  So maybe your problem is the volume of your music collection unless you just like listening to it crazzy loud..  They should have a volume limit by default though because I usually blow out my apple headphones a few weeks after getting them and other headphones I've used have been louder at lower volume.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #12 –
Quote from: tospace on
So maybe your problem is the volume of your music collection unless you just like listening to it crazzy loud..


Neither of the above. The EU players are heavily volume limited. It's nice to know what all I suspected - UK players have been castrated by Apple because of the ridiculous French law.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #13 –
Have you actually compared an US and an EU nano 5G? I remember reading that the maximum volume of iPod DAPs has degraded over the generations by using weaker amplifiers which increase battery life but sacrifice power.
I use an iPod touch 3G and paired with my Shure SE530 I only need volume settings between 10 and 15 percent of what the player is capeable of. The core problem is that big headphones aren't designed for use with small, low-powered DAPs anyway.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #14 –
I'll chime in with some data that might be helpful.

My wife's US Nano has an output voltage of ~0.7Vrms (1khz sine wave) unloaded.  My Nokia 5800 (purchased in the USA as a USA model) has a max output of 0.3Vrms unloaded.  It's my understanding that the Nokia is limited due to EU restrictions.  If I use a full sized set of headphones and music with an average volume of -30dbfs (a lot of classical music!), the music is not loud enough on the Nokia.

Even with my IEMs (107 db/mw) I can listen to classical music at full volume on the Nokia 5800 without issue or hearing damage.  The Nano is much more capable of destroying my ears both with full sized headphones and IEMs.

The simplest solution is to buy something like a Fiio E5 ($20) portable amplifier.  I don't know what the gain is (2X?) but it should be able to drive your headphones to headache inducing volumes.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #15 –
Quote from: saratoga on
Its actually 100dB with the included headphones.  Since 99% of people don't buy new headphones, the idea is that most people will be protected from hearing loss.
So as usual, a good intentioned idea becomes a millstone around the neck of sensible people when it's turned into a European law!

The difference between clipressed pop music vs well mastered classical music is about 20dB.

The different between cheap-but-high-sensitivity headphones vs decent-but-low-sensitivity headpones is - I have no idea - at least 6dB? More?

So the 100dB limit actually imposes a 70dB limit on some users.

Sounds like people should boycott EU-crippled mp3 players.

Then manufacturers will have to include some smarter processing, rather than a dumb fixed limit. Though brief peaks in classical music might then break EU law.

Cheers,
David.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #16 –
HI,

I have the exactly same problem with my ipod nano 3G. I guess changing the firmware is the best solution. Modifying the music itself is for me unthinkable, it would lead to 2 different music collections.

here's what I found on ilounge.com

http://forums.ilounge.com/hacks-mods/21033...ack-bypass.html

Quote
So.. bought a Nano 3G at Zurich Airport, took it to my hotel and loaded music but didn't get on the internet to update the software. Was subsequently ticked off with the apparent volume cap which I had no idea I purchased!!! Seemed to be 2/3 to 3/4 the volume of the old Mini I replaced... nice... It seems no hack exists yet, BUT, when I'd start a game with a song playing, there was a striking increase in the volume of the song (as the game started ie. the game seemed to disable the cap...) Can anyone else confirm this???

I next departed Zurich for Africa. Upon arrival, I connected to the net and updated the software. Believe it or not, the volume cap seems to have disappeared... Now when a game starts, the change in volume no longer happens and the max volume seems much louder than before... Again, can anyone else confirm this???? Seemed to easy... (if you count flying your iPod to another continent to update it easy...)


Maybe I should ask my steward friend to take my ipod with him when going to USA and then updating the firmware in his hotel room...

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Maurits on
Sure, I am well aware the EU has set a maximum volume for portable players. What I ask is why the original poster is convinced that his iPod and headphones don't go together that well because of this EU limit. Why is this not the inevitable limitation of using power hungry headphones on a small battery operated device...


It's a little bit of both; just not so much of the iPod's limitations. My iPod Classic 160 is loud enough to drive a pair of Sennheisser 595s. I have a little volume to spare when listening to heavier music.

EU doesn't want it's citizens deciding what will hurt their ears...and if you all don't care, Nanny will care for you.

I'm sure you can still drive some good earbuds at France's Approved Volume™, just not open-air cans like the 595s.

I'd let you guys send those iPods to me for some fixing with a two-week turnaround, but I'd risk your having them confiscated at the border  I don't think they'd get all up in my airspace, but you good folks would be in serious trouble. Messing with iPods...buggering up your ears and such!

...but seriously: I believe it is the firmware causing the limitations. It's easier for them to implement that way. Similarly, my friends in Germany were downloading "verboten" content from X-Box Live marketplace once they got off of their nation's IP addresses to do so. The German government got wind of adults playing violent games and made Microsoft block it from their end. They tried to do it the easy way the first time. I use this as an example so as those who wish may find their ways around the limitation while they still can...before Apple is made to tool up and produce EU-limited hardware for their market.
The Loudness War is over. Now it's a hopeless occupation.

Ipod Nano EU Volume Limit ideas. Please help

Reply #18 –
For Ipod Nano 5g European model i've managed to find a way to get rid of volume cap without sound increase.

What you need:

1) Ipod nano with a volume cap by our friends in EU comission
2) Computer with internet access
3) A valid credit card of paypal account.

The trick is simple - if ipod is reset (firmware re-updated) while your computer is connecting to iTunes from a US IP address, the update you will be getting won't have a volume cap.

In detail:
You need to sign up for a VPN from one of those online VPN providers. They typically cost 5$ per month.
You will only need this once - to reflash your ipod.

You setup a VPN connection with them, verify on www.whatismyipaddress.com that your IP address is from US (also you can use www.speedtest.net to see on the map where are you connecting from)\
Then launch itunes and reset player.

Simple
No need for eupod, dopod, or sound-crippling +100% volume hack.

Hope it works for you, and watch out your ears, they will be surprised by the volume and bass boost.