Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003 (Read 9640 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

There are 5 music files in the UT2003 demo and they are ogg encoded!

Thought it was kind of interesting. 

Edit: they are around 80 kbps

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #1 –
Interesting.

1) What quality level were they at? Can you tell?

2) Do the people with the perfect equiptment/ears have any complaints with them?

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #2 –
I read somewhere in this forum that these r not standard oggs and that they
will not play in every player... I could be wrong though...
Wanna buy a monkey?

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #3 –
Quote
Interesting.

1) What quality level were they at? Can you tell?

2) Do the people with the perfect equiptment/ears have any complaints with them?

This is actually rather old news.  It was originally discussed on the Xiph mailing lists some time ago if I recall correctly.

I think the files are encoded with -q0.  I have UT2003 installed on my other PC, but I'm not around it atm so I can't check for sure.  The files were encoded with a pretty old Vorbis library though.  Artifacting is also pretty obvious, though I guess that's to be expected at that bitrate.  Personally, I don't see why these companies who are using psychoacoustically based lossy encoders  for music feel that it's necessary to push things to such a low bitrate.  It seems that quite a few of the games lately that have been coming out have worse sound now then before. :/  Jedi Knight 2 is another good example.  I don't remember if it uses Vorbis or MP3 though, but the artifacts are quite apparent and very annoying.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #4 –
Quote
I read somewhere in this forum that these r not standard oggs and that they
will not play in any player...

I'm pretty sure this is wrong.  They are normal Vorbis files IIRC.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #5 –
Quote
I'm pretty sure this is wrong.  They are normal Vorbis files IIRC.

The ogg files that come with the UT2k3 Demo play just fine in foobar2000.  Should also be fine in Winamp.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #6 –
Quote
I think the files are encoded with -q0.  I have UT2003 installed on my other PC, but I'm not around it atm so I can't check for sure.  The files were encoded with a pretty old Vorbis library though.  Artifacting is also pretty obvious, though I guess that's to be expected at that bitrate.  Personally, I don't see why these companies who are using psychoacoustically based lossy encoders  for music feel that it's necessary to push things to such a low bitrate.

Well -q0 certainly makes sense for a demo, to save everyone bandwidth.  Does the full game have higher-quality encodes though?  If not thats pretty poor.

As for other games, Serious Sam uses an old version of vorbis for its audio files.  They are all encoded around 128kpbs so the sound is decent.  Freelancer has mp3 sound, renamed to .wav for some reason.  Most are 22khz, very low-bitrate.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #7 –
Quote
As for other games, Serious Sam uses an old version of vorbis for its audio files.  They are all encoded around 128kpbs so the sound is decent.

Serious Sam music uses mp3, not vorbis.  Search for a file named 1_00_music.gro in Program Files/Croteam/Serious Sam.  When you change the file extension to .mp3 you can play back the file and look at the file info.  It's 128kbps 44100Hz MP3.  I'm refering to the first encounter though; this may not be true for the second encounter, since they did eventually add Ogg Vorbis support to the first encounter.

*sigh*  Wish vorbis was used more...

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #9 –
Thanks for the info Dibrom .

-q0 is good enough for a demo[/i][/u], and I guess they thought that in a game like Unreal Tournament, the sound would be the last concern. The sound in these types of games, is not top priority like in ABX tests, since you're so distracted by the rest of the game, and running like hell from the guy with a weapon tons better than yours. Sound is last priority, until, someone finally notices it. And in something for free, who's to complain?

If the original game uses that, that was *definately* not a good move.  I wouldn't buy it.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #10 –
I wasn't talking about the demo, but the actual full game.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #11 –
Quote
Serious Sam music uses mp3, not vorbis.  Search for a file named 1_00_music.gro in Program Files/Croteam/Serious Sam.  When you change the file extension to .mp3 you can play back the file and look at the file info.  It's 128kbps 44100Hz MP3.  I'm refering to the first encounter though; this may not be true for the second encounter, since they did eventually add Ogg Vorbis support to the first encounter.

*sigh*  Wish vorbis was used more...

Yeah, I was talking about Serious Sam: 2nd Encounter.  I assumed Serious Sam 1 used vorbis as well, but guess they used mp3 then.

2nd encounter uses
Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010813

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #12 –
I see.

kjoonlee, what songs were at what bitrate? Was it just sound effects at low and songs at high bitrates(using higher bitrates, when needed), or just at random? 

Why they need to save so much space in the full version is beyond me... 

edit; I hope this doesn't become a common trend in computer gaming, until we *have* codecs that can make standard sounding MPCs at 64k(dreaming)

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #13 –
Yeah, all the music are pretty poor sounding low bitrate OGGs. It's puzzling since UT2003 comes with 3 CDs and the standard install takes just under 3GBs. They could have used higher bitrate encodes.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #14 –
Quote
Yeah, all the music are pretty poor sounding low bitrate OGGs. It's puzzling since UT2003 comes with 3 CDs and the standard install takes just under 3GBs. They could have used higher bitrate encodes.

sad to say, but music compression to most game devs is probably just a way to squeeze a few more megs out of their cd(s) in order to fill with movies, textures etc.  we'll be wishing for the old days of redbook audio on games soon :/

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #15 –
This is nothing new really, games have been using Vorbis for years. One of the first I remember is a Star Trek game of some kind back in 1999-2000~ (?).

BTW, Unreal II The Awakening uses high bitrate (~200kbps) Vorbis.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #16 –
For years?

Correct me if I'm wrong on these two things, but,

1) Before v.1, wasn't Ogg Vorbis terribly buggy?

2) Above 200k, isn't MP3/MPC/AAC a better choice?

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #17 –
Quote
1) Before v.1, wasn't Ogg Vorbis terribly buggy?

2) Above 200k, isn't MP3/MPC/AAC a better choice?

1.  Define 'terribly'.  It worked, and was decent at mid-bitrates (lower-bitrates were the big winners with the 1.0 release).
2. Thats irrelevant; developers are using vorbis because it costs them $0 in royalties as opposed to the big bucks Fhg wants for mp3.  The situation is similar with aac or mpc.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #18 –
01. Unreal_Tournament_2003-Intro_Music.ogg - 058kbps   3:12
02. Unreal_Tournament_2003-Jugs-Entrance.ogg - 067kbps   0:59
03. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-Assault.ogg - 065kbps   2:00
04. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-Chemical-Burn.ogg - 067kbps   2:00
05. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-Collision-Course.ogg - 070kbps   2:00
06. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-DM1.ogg - 070kbps   2:00
07. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-EndingSequence.ogg - 062kbps   1:33
08. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-From-Below-V2.ogg - 066kbps   1:59
09. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-Ghosts-of-Anubis.ogg - 062kbps   2:02
10. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-HELL.ogg - 064kbps   2:00
11. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-Infernal-Realm.ogg - 062kbps   2:00
12. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-Infiltrate.ogg - 068kbps   2:00
13. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-menumusic.ogg - 064kbps   1:32
14. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-MenuMusic-v2.ogg - 063kbps   1:36
15. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-Pharaohs-Revenge.ogg - 063kbps   2:00
16. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-SkyScraper.ogg - 070kbps   2:01
17. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-Slaughter.ogg - 065kbps   2:20
18. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-Sniper-Time.ogg - 067kbps   2:00
19. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-Tomb-Of-Horus.ogg - 062kbps   2:01
20. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-UT2003-Menu.ogg - 064kbps   1:31
21. Unreal_Tournament_2003-KR-WasteLand.ogg - 063kbps   1:58
22. Unreal_Tournament_2003-Level13.ogg - 118kbps   4:34
23. Unreal_Tournament_2003-Level2.ogg - 092kbps   5:48
24. Unreal_Tournament_2003-Level3.ogg - 090kbps   3:09
25. Unreal_Tournament_2003-Level5.ogg - 087kbps   5:46
26. Unreal_Tournament_2003-Level6.ogg - 087kbps   5:31
27. Unreal_Tournament_2003-Level8.ogg - 128kbps   3:38
28. Unreal_Tournament_2003-Menu1.ogg - 127kbps   1:55
29. Unreal_Tournament_2003-Mercs-Entrance.ogg - 064kbps   1:16
30. Unreal_Tournament_2003-StageMusic.ogg - 061kbps   0:53

The file names might be a little different, but you get the idea. I don't really know about sound effects.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #19 –
Begin Rant

UT2k3 shipped much later after Vorbis 1.0 was released. Why oh why they couldn't have used the 1.0 encoder to do the encoding........       

End Rant

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #20 –
Quote
UT2k3 shipped much later after Vorbis 1.0 was released. Why oh why they couldn't have used the 1.0 encoder to do the encoding

Because most of the music was recorded, encoded, and finished long before 1.0.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #22 –
In Unreal II the Awakening the average bitrate is 169kbps. Most files are RC2 but some already are RC3. Some month ago I checked their bitrates: There are a few samples with a very high bitrate ~300kbps and other with -q0 RC.

I tried MpegAudioCollection for making a list, indicating the bitrate, of these files. I'm sure it works because I already did so, but now i'm not able to do it. Does anybody know how it works?

fragtal
I love the moderators.

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #23 –
Quote
Quote
1) Before v.1, wasn't Ogg Vorbis terribly buggy?

2) Above 200k, isn't MP3/MPC/AAC a better choice?

1.  Define 'terribly'.  It worked, and was decent at mid-bitrates (lower-bitrates were the big winners with the 1.0 release).
2. Thats irrelevant; developers are using vorbis because it costs them $0 in royalties as opposed to the big bucks Fhg wants for mp3.  The situation is similar with aac or mpc.

Thanks, I'm actually learning something here...    B)

Well, with 1, that's what I suspected. Yet with 2, isn't lame MP3 meant to be royalty free, etc?

And, well, people said they wanted good graphics in a game; they finally took that seriously. I don't think they meant at such a far take away from the sound...       

ogg in Unreal Tournament 2003

Reply #24 –
Quote
Yet with 2, isn't lame MP3 meant to be royalty free, etc?

Lame? Royalte free? What are you talking about. It is MP3 and therefore there are dues to pay. There are software which legally use Lame to encode IIRC. But they are not Lame.exe, Lame.DLL, CDeX, Eac, Gogo, and many many many many many many many more. It is 100% illegal for anyone to compile lame and hand out a single binary without paying Fraunhoffer etc for licensing. The fact that Fraunhoffer has not been strict in it's enforcement is another thing entirely.