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Topic: Ipod to home stereo? (Read 9742 times) previous topic - next topic
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Ipod to home stereo?

I have an ipod running on rockbox firmware and i am able to play flac format and other loss less formats.

My question, is it possible to someone play these songs as they are lossless pure through my speaker system. (a techniques receiver, with a 2 channel speaker setup)

I know there are things like this:

But i also know that im not going to get the best quality sound out of that at all. I guess i am an audiophile (Lol, and that isn't going to due :-p)

I don't know if they make what im looking for or if my ipod can handle it. But fill me in with any info you got on the matter.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #1 –
Quote from: warfront1 on
I have an ipod running on rockbox firmware and i am able to play flac format and other loss less formats.

My question, is it possible to someone play these songs as they are lossless pure through my speaker system. (a techniques receiver, with a 2 channel speaker setup)

I know there are things like this:


Not the right cable. That's a 3.5 mm stereo splitter, you want a 3.5 mm to RCA adaptor cable.


Quote
But i also know that im not going to get the best quality sound out of that at all. I guess i am an audiophile (Lol, and that isn't going to due :-p)


When you say that you *know* that you "are not going to get the best quality sound out of that at all", why do say that you *know* that?

Hardware is hardware no matter how it is packaged. All the parts that relate to sound quality in your iPod are more than good enough for the best possible sound from your recordings, no matter how small they are.

The leading problem with iPods is that their headphone amps don't have as much output as some people think they need to make their earphones as loud as they like. Frankly, I'm one of those people.  The idea of hooking the iPod up to a good stereo is a great idea, and neither complex nor expensive. Try it, you may like it! ;-)

I know from experience (both listening and measuring) that if I hook the iPod up to a good stereo with the correct cable(s), and have loaded well-made files onto the iPod, I'm going to be able to enjoy that music just as well as if I had a $3000 CD player in place of the iPod.

Quote
I don't know if they make what im looking for or if my ipod can handle it. But fill me in with any info you got on the matter.


Take a big risk. Get the cable. Give it a try! ;-)

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #2 –
Try these people.... www.sendstation.com ...they do a USB/line out for all iPods

If you already have a dock I'd suggest using that into your amp rather that the headphone socket as you'll be getting a proper unamplified line-level signal.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #3 –
my bad i was in a hurry when i got the image, i reuped the new picture. Could you give me a link to the cable you are talking about.

Also what do you think about a product like this 

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
The leading problem with iPods is that their headphone amps don't have as much output as some people think they need to make their earphones as loud as they like. Frankly, I'm one of those people.  The idea of hooking the iPod up to a good stereo is a great idea, and neither complex nor expensive. Try it, you may like it! ;-)

I know from experience (both listening and measuring) that if I hook the iPod up to a good stereo with the correct cable(s), and have loaded well-made files onto the iPod, I'm going to be able to enjoy that music just as well as if I had a $3000 CD player in place of the iPod.

Quote
I don't know if they make what im looking for or if my ipod can handle it. But fill me in with any info you got on the matter.


Take a big risk. Get the cable. Give it a try! ;-)


He is absolutely correct, an iPod is an audiophile grade component.  What you want is the universal dock for the ipod.  http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB125G/B#overview  and a cable to connect the dock to your Hi-Fi

This will allow you to get a line level output from the iPod, thus avoiding the headphone amp.

I have a hi-end audio system and use the iPod hooked up this way because I discovered after testing that  it is indistinguishable in audio quality from a good CD or DVD player.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #5 –
Could someone post a link of everything i need to buy.

and brownianm could u post a link of this cable you are talking about (and if there is a better made cable aka. monster or something please post that)

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #6 –
Along with the option that Apple provides, you might consider looking on eBay for something comparable and potentially cheaper. I bought an Insten dock there not to long ago that does pretty much the same as the Apple Universal Dock does, looks essentially the same and comes with a remote virtually identical for cheaper than Apple's solution.

A potential problem is that you're running Rockbox and God only knows whether any dock would work properly with that firmware. Your only solution might be the RCA/3.5 solution.

All that said, I have a fairly decent stereo -- certainly not audiophile class though -- and I find the output from my iPod is pretty good. The only limitation is the quality of the file and since you're using lossless, that shouldn't be a problem.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #7 –
Well, it all depends on what you want.  Do you want to control your iPod (these are very basic controls such as play/pause, fast forward/skip, and rewind/skip back) using a wireless IR remote?  You will need to purchases Apple's $49.99 dock if you want to do this.  Apple offers two AV kits.  These kits don't require a dock but they do require a 4G iPod with color display, 5G iPod, iPod classic, 3G iPod nano and above, 1G/2G iPod touch, and a 1G/3G iPhone.  These kits are best if you want video as well as audio output.  I also don't know if RockBox can output with these cables.  However, if you purchase the $49.99 dock, all you will need is a simple 3.5mm male to two RCA (red and white) male cable.  These are normally a few dollars are Radio Shack.  However, as with Apple's AV kit, I don't know if the dock will work with RockBox.

If worst comes to worst, you can always just use that ~$2 3.5mm-RCA cable and plug it directly into your iPod's headphone output.  You might want to check the accessories that RockBox is compatible with.  I recommend getting a dock (whether it be the older no IR model, an older circular IR model, or the newer slit IR model) simply because the iPod's dock connector is the only way to get line-level output (although the headphone port can closely match this if you turn the volume all the way up).

Edit:  I forgot to mention that I see no need in getting expensive cables for this purpose.  You will be transmitting an analog signal and, from my experience, the $2 cable performs just as well as the expensive $30 cable (the cable I have looks like the one you pictures in your very first post) or the $50 Apple AV connection kits (just judging their audio output capabilities).

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: gorgekko on
A potential problem is that you're running Rockbox and God only knows whether any dock would work properly with that firmware. Your only solution might be the RCA/3.5 solution.

100% of "non-intelligent" solutions will work with Rockbox.  As in the (massive photo) cable imaged above, or a simple line-out dock.
Just to be clear - the line-out pins are always enabled.  The accessory power out pins are only enabled by Rockbox upon user selection, and some "intelligent" docks seem to want this on.  Rockbox has support for the basic commands of the Apple Accessory Protocol, which should be more than enough for any dock which does not attempt to control the iPod, and possible for some which do.
There is an (outdated) IpodAccessories Rockbox wikipage (outdated as in most entries are pre-protocol support, so all positive reports are true but not all negative reports).  There is also user reports in the Unsupported Builds forum from when the accessory protocol was being tested.  I need to get off my lazy ass and merge those two sources of documentation.


Quote from: kornchild2002 on
simply because the iPod's dock connector is the only way to get line-level output (although the headphone port can closely match this if you turn the volume all the way up).

No, all the way up on every iPod I am familiar with is actually above line-level.  Just set your iPod in Rockbox to "0" volume (assuming you are not using the EQ)
Creature of habit.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #9 –
Really?  When did this change occur?  I remember back in 2003 and 2004 that those iPods produced a slightly lower volume through the headphone port than through the dock connector.  Additionally, I think some tests were done (again, on the 3G and 4G iPod and they were RMAA tests) and the line out had higher quality than the headphone port.  I know that the iPod's headphone port has changed since then thanks to the internal hardware changing.

Additionally, can't this above line-level output (through the headphone port) introduce additional clipping?

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Really?  When did this change occur?  I remember back in 2003 and 2004 that those iPods produced a slightly lower volume through the headphone port than through the dock connector.

I can't speak for how Apple controls the codec, but Rockbox uses its full range.  The 5G maxes out at 5 or 6 (I would have to look) db above line level.
EDIT:  You also might be comparing apples to oranges in terms of impedance matching.  Headphones not having the high-impedance of a line-in will receive much more power from the line-out than the line-in we're talking about would.  Low (when I say low in this context I mean sub the 10,000ohm level the line-out was designed to "drive") impedances are not what the line-out was intended for. IIUC
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Additionally, I think some tests were done (again, on the 3G and 4G iPod and they were RMAA tests) and the line out had higher quality than the headphone port.

Obviously there is a different signal path amongst the two outputs.  I have not seen such RMAA results, but I was also not under the impression there was any significant issue with the headphone output under any circumstances outside low-impedance loads (of which a line-in is not.)
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
I know that the iPod's headphone port has changed since then thanks to the internal hardware changing.

Yes, the 3rd gen uses a different Wolfson part than the 4th gens, different than the 5th gen.  The underlying principal should be the same, though.  (Should outside what I would consider an implementation flaw.)
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Additionally, can't this above line-level output (through the headphone port) introduce additional clipping?

Clearly it can, but Rockbox reports volumes at line-level reference.  Thus a volume of "0" in Rockbox should be line-out voltage levels.  (and is why normal listening levels (for me) are ~ -40) I say should here because obviously if you have positive gain elsewhere in the DSP chain you run the possibility of clipping.  I, personally, run all my DAPs with a negative pre-gain in the EQ equal to the max-output-level-above-line for that particular DAP so that max volume is always = 0 to facilitate easier usage with line-ins.
Creature of habit.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #11 –
Ok i just got my cable, and the monster cable was fairly cheap so i sprung for it. Heres what i got.
. (of course with the line out on the back, and a place for the 3.5mm output)
Need help on a limited budget!

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: warfront1 on
Ok now all i need to do is find a dock under $20 that has a romote  . (of course with the line out on the back, and a place for the 3.5mm output)
Need help on a limited budget!

Try it through the headphone jack with no EQ and volume set to "0".  I think you will be happy.
Creature of habit.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #13 –
Well, if Rockbox reports its volume in such ways then yes, I think you will be happy just using the iPod's headphone port until you can find a dock for convenient control.

On a side note; you can check eBay and Amazon's Marketplace for a dock.  You don't need the new dock, the old dock with the round IR port will work.  Here is a picture of the older dock:


It has an s-video port on the back and a round IR port on the front.  The newer dock looks like this:


As you can see, the IR port is a little slit.  Either dock will give you the exact same results so long as you don't want to use Apple's component video cable.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #14 –
This is becoming quite a "who's got the biggest / post your cable"-thread.

That's me laying my new special edition Monster cable from my iPod Dock to my Burmester power amp in my soon to be built living room:



Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #15 –
Lol i posted the pictures to help people to see what i was talking about. Sorry about the big pictures. But i solved all my issues guys.

I got a docking station (with a controller): 13.99
those monster cables 3.5mm jack to a two male rca: 14.99

Thanks for all the help everyone, ill let you guys know how it sounds when it all comes finally in the mail

Moderation: Just say no to quoting the previous post in full.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #16 –
This wasn't meant as an insult, I laughed myself when I posted this.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #17 –
Would someone be kind enough to clarify if I am reading this correctly:

Does setting volume to '0' and equalizer 'off' by-pass the ipod amp and give a better sound if connected to an amp using headphone socket??

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #18 –
I need more context as to what exactly you are asking, but...
I suggested setting the volume to "0" because that should be line-out voltage. 
This does not by-pass the iPod amp, but it really doesn't matter if it does when attached to a line-in with its mega-impedance.
Creature of habit.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #19 –
I'm hoping to avoid using a line in (presuming that means a dock).  I just wanna be able to plug either of my ipod to the cables i have hooked up to the the input jacks at the front of my NAD (which has a headphone jack) -

hope that make sense, I'm no tech whizz at this stuff.

PS - unfortunately rockbox doesn't support my two nano's ... any idea why that may be?

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #20 –
Rockbox doesn't support either of your Nanos because Apple encrypted their firmware and Rockbox is unable to run unapproved code on those devices. 
You should get good performance even without Rockbox, though, once you figure out the appropriate volume to set your iPod at.  Start by turning off the EQ (older iPods had an EQ system which did not appear to use precut equal to the band gain applied, and that quickly leads to distortion (so for the sake of this experiment we best assume the newer iPods have the same issue)), and then play a loud, yet undistorted, song at full volume.  This likely will sound distorted through your stereo when attached to your iPod through the above show cable.
Slowly turn down the volume (I'm guessing not much more than 6 clicks) until you no longer hear any distortion.  This should now be the appropriate setting for using the headphone jack as a line out.  There is no danger of turning it down too far, you simply give up SNR.
What I would do if I had one of the newer iPods (and didn't have a line-out dock connector), is determine the appropriate volume for line-out usage through the headphone jack, and then set the adjustable volume cap @ that level, so from then on "max" volume = line-out.
Creature of habit.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #22 –
Thanks Soap.

It really sucks that i can't put rockbox on... i loathe the apple set-up, i've tried all i can to by-pass it but inevitably an issure arises requiring an iTunes install.


The volume issue reallly seems like a hassle, ... i was hopping i could just plug and play without all this fiddling and testing.

Ipod to home stereo?

Reply #24 –
Soap, you are indeed correct - I posted that before looking at the link.  I'd drop 15bucks in an instant but the same product where in live (that i found yesterday) costs 50bucks.