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Topic: Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files (Read 24688 times) previous topic - next topic
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Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Quote from: mattdm11 on
When I started, I didn't find anything (and still haven't) called FLACgain or something that would equalize the volume of FLACs.

...

I love Winamp.

Sure there's something to equalize the volume of your flacs.  It's called Replaygain and Winamp's in_flac.dll supports it.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #1 –
True, but I like adjusting the files myself, not having winamp guess at it.  For example, I have several CDs that, in order to have the same perceived volume as other CDs, should be reduced by 9dB, but if I let Replaygain automatically adjust it, it would only adjust it 6dB.  Does that make sense?

Unless I'm not understanding something and Replaygain is an actual utility like MP3gain?

Moderation: Removed quotation.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #2 –
If you have a problem with RG, then you must certainly have a problem with mp3gain as well since it uses the RG algorithm (as does aacgain, as does wavegain, as does vorbisgain).  What's worse, mp3gain only works in 1.5dB steps.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #3 –
I have a problem with it when I blindly adjust according to standard reductions.  A lot of albums I reduce by 6 dB, but not all.  Some get reduced only by 4.5, some by 9.0.  That's why I do it by hand - by listening to it myself, I adjust a few dB here and there to fine tune it.

And yes, I hate that it only works in 1.5dB steps.

Moderation: Removed quotation.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #4 –
So then manually adjust the replaygain values just as you would do by manually adjusting the volume with mp3gain.  Problem solved.

EDIT: If you're still not satisfied, wavegain allows manual adjustment with the -g switch.  Sox and foobar2000 can do this also.

My apologies to the OP for continuing this off-topic conversation.  @mattdm11, if you want to discuss this further I will be more than happy to split the thread, though there isn't much more to say on the matter.  The next step is for you to research the options I have given you.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #5 –
If you feel the need, go ahead.

I'm going to sound like a complete idiot here, but I did do some research, it's just that I've always used mp3gain.  Where can I dl Replaygain, or is it already in Winamp?  It's just a plugin, right?

Until today I thought they were both programs.  I think I found the site for it but it comes in a RAR file and inside the RAR file all I see are folders, no files.

Moderation: Removed quotation.  Now that the thread is split there should be absolutely no need to quote the entire previous post when responding to it.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #6 –
RG is not a program that you download.  It's something that is incorporated into your player (foobar2000 and Winamp can both calculate RG, though I don't think Winamp will let you manually edit the values).  Some codecs have the ability to calculate RG values when encoding such as flac, wavpack and lame, though lame stores the information in the header for which there is little support.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #7 –
foobar does a good job for RG.

If you’re more like me and insist in doing everything manually, the combination of Mp3tag (a tagging software) and the commandline utilities metaflac, metamp3 and vorbisgain is also worth looking into. (There are more, like aacgain and wavegain but I only use FLAC, OGG and MP3.)

All above use the Replay Gain algorithms, so consistent results could be expected. Mp3tag could be used to manually edit RG values in tags, but I’d strongly advise against doing that.

Good players (like foobar, SqueezeCenter/SqueezeBox(es) for example) support the RG tags. Winamp also does. iTunes/iPod(s) use their own variant, called »SoundCheck« I believe (which could be calculated from RG values but Apple apparently don’t like to officially document the SC tags).
 

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #8 –
Maybe the misunderstanding comes from this:

While replay gain value can be computed and stored in the music file with many tools (for instance with foobar), and the RG value can be modified manually if wanted so, mp3gain (and its variant aacgain) has the AFAIK unique feature that the audio content of a music file is modified in such a way that RG's loudness modification works with any player. This is an important feature for the majority of mobile DAPs.
Only disdavantage is mp3gain's accuracy of +/-0.75 db which however is sufficient in practice. Moreover with a RG featured player RG value is taken care of exactly. Important: when lowering volume (which is usually done when applying RG) mp3gain's modification of the audio content is a lossless process.

As for manual RG value modification: according to my experience automatic RG computation usually gives the right answer. If not the result is usable though not optimal most of the time. It happens though that modification of the computed RG value is a must do.

EDITED: Very personal experience removed which may have been mistaken as a general advice.
lame3995o -Q1.7 --lowpass 17

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #9 –
Quote from: halb27 on
It happens though that modification of the computed RG value is a must do, most of the time when track's loudness is to be lower than 'normal'. To tackle this Album gain usually is not a good solution for a sequence of tracks originating from various albums even if album gain was used on the original album tracks.
I strongly disagree.  If a track is intended to be quiet in the context of an album, I feel is should be quiet in the context of a compilation.  Sure there are exceptions because the algorithm isn't perfectly omniscient, but I know that I'm not alone in my reasoning.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #10 –
Quote from: greynol on
... If a track is intended to be quiet in the context of an album, I feel is should be quiet in the context of a compilation.  ....

Sure, but the adequate degree of quietness of a track is not totally independent of the context.
I do not want to open another discussion album vs. track gain. I think everybody using RG has made his own experience and uses the mode most appropriate to his needs.
Quote from: greynol on
... Sure there are exceptions because the algorithm isn't perfectly omniscient, ....

That's why modifying the RG value can be helpful on occasion.
lame3995o -Q1.7 --lowpass 17

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #11 –
Quote from: greynol on
I strongly disagree.  If a track is intended to be quiet in the context of an album, I feel is should be quiet in the context of a compilation.
Would this not be a case for looking at the relativity between the Track Gain and the Album Gain and retaining this when compiling the compilation, although how it would be dealt with in practice is as yet indeterminate, i.e how would one deal with:

From Album A: Track 1: TG: -4.5dB; AG: -3.0dB;
From Album B: Track 2: TG: -6.0dB; AG: -6.0dB.

One possible interpretation would be that Album A: Track 1 should be 1.5dB "louder" than Album B: Track 2 on the compilation, having first normalised both tracks using the album gain.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #12 –
sorry to resurrect the thread, but while I know there is no "program" for FLACs like MP3gain, is there a way to manually adjust the actual volume of an album through Replaygain to my liking?  For example, if Replaygain says they are going to adjust an album -10dB, is there something I can do so Winamp/Foobar knows that I really only want to adjust this album, say, -9dB, or maybe -11dB?  And it remembers this setting every time I play the album?

Basically, I am looking for some flexibility in RG.  To these ears, RG doesn't do a good of a job as I can do with MP3gain.  As it stands, either I keep all my music as MP3s with more volume adjustment flexibility, or I upgrade to FLAC and hit the volume button more.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #13 –
Well, I don't know why no one has mentioned it, but you can apply gain to FLAC files in fb2k using the converter, in the processing tab.

It is obviously a permanent, lossy operation, however.
Also with fb2k, you can adjust the values.

Quote from: mattdm11 on
To these ears, RG doesn't do a good of a job as I can do with MP3gain.

Weird, because they use the exact same algorithm, as documented on HA's hosted site: here.

It's likely your ears are lying to you.  See our Terms of Service #8.
elevatorladylevitateme

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #14 –
Quote from: shakey_snake on
Well, I don't know why no one has mentioned it, but you can apply gain to FLAC files in fb2k using the converter, in the processing tab.

It is obviously a permanent, lossy operation, however.



hmmm...not looking for anything permanent

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #15 –
Quote from: shakey_snake on
Well, I don't know why no one has mentioned it, but you can apply gain to FLAC files in fb2k using the converter, in the processing tab.

It is obviously a permanent, lossy operation, however.
Also with fb2k, you can adjust the values.

Quote from: mattdm11 on
To these ears, RG doesn't do a good of a job as I can do with MP3gain.

Weird, because they use the exact same algorithm, as documented on HA's hosted site: here.

It's likely your ears are lying to you.


I knew someone was going to say this immediately.  I completely disagree.  Excuse me while I talk in mp3gain terms here, but...for example...a song with a "volume" of 91.0dB with max no-clip gain of 0.0 is louder to my ears than a song with a "volume" of 91.0 dB with max no-clip gain of 4.5 or 6.0.  There's more dynamic range in the first song, and to my ears, that makes the song louder.  When I adjust my mp3s in MP3gain, I don't look at the volume, I look at the max no-clip gain.  I usually adjust it for all songs to be at 4.5 (but, based on the reason for this thread, sometimes I make it 3.0, or 6.0).  Again, to my ears, that's the most pleasing way for me to enjoy music at the same volume.

Let's just agree to disagree.  I'm just looking to see if RG will let me adjust the volume after it calculates a RG value.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #16 –
MP3Gain / Replay Gain do not change dynamic range - at all. If you "hear" that it is most likely to be a placebo effect.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Nick.C on
MP3Gain / Replay Gain do not change dynamic range - at all. If you "hear" that it is most likely to be a placebo effect.


I never said it changes the dynamic range - I'm saying a song with a volume of 91.0 dB with 0.0 max no-clip gain has more dynamic range than 91.0 with a max no-clip gain of 4.5.

Again, I'll concede I'm wrong.  I really don't care.  I am just looking to see if this is possible.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #18 –
Come on guys - why are you trying to confuse this person?!

Mattdm11 - it's simple - if you don't like the value ReplayGain automatically calculates for you, just edit it. It's only a value, and all players that support ReplayGain will read your edited value and use it.

foobar2k lets you edit ReplayGain values by right clicking on the track and selecting the option from the context menu*. Type in a new value, and click "update tags". That's it!

Problem solved, I hope!

Cheers,
David.

P.S. * - IIRC in the latest versions of fb2k the "edit ReplayGain" option is hidden by default - you have to unhide it in a preferences menu somewhere.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #19 –
@Matdm11: Do you really mean that you want to modify the replaygain value to your likings, file by file, or you mean that you want to increase/decrease for all flac files that you replaygain?

I.e. I am interested if you are looking for the Reference gain box of MP3Gain for flacs.

If it is, then:
Foobar2000:  Menu: File->Preferences, Playback, and change the sliders of the preamp section. The first one changes the gain for those with replaygain information, and the second does so, for the ones without replaygain.

Winamp: Menu: Options-Preferences, General preferences->Playback,  Replaygain tab and change the slider of preamp. Here you will reduce the volume for non-replaygained files, and you can use the one in the equalizer to increase both (replaygained and non-replaygained).

You can read more in this post of mine:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=670222

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #20 –
thanks to 2Bdecided and JAZ....but maybe I am not fully understanding what you are saying, or I am not explaining myself correctly.

I don't want to adjust every single FLAC I have by hand.  What I'm saying is that if I have an album that has an album gain of -10dB according to RG, sometimes I am happy with RG's adjustment; other times I am not.  For example - Radiohead's "In Rainbows" still seems louder to me when adjusted through RG, so instead of lowering the volume 10dB, maybe I want to lower the whole album 12dB.  Is there a way to tell RG that when "In Rainbows" plays, to automatically lower the volume by 12dB instead of 10dB?  The same goes for another album I have - RG lowers the volume 5dB, but I think that's too quiet, so I want to only lower it 3dB.

It seems like you would almost have to tag the files like you do with an mp3 through MP3gain.

I read both of your suggestions, and like I said, maybe I'm not understanding, but I don't think either of your suggestions apply to what I'm looking for.  This may not even be possible.  I'm not trying to be a pain, I swear....

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #21 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Come on guys - why are you trying to confuse this person?!

Mattdm11 - it's simple - if you don't like the value ReplayGain automatically calculates for you, just edit it. It's only a value, and all players that support ReplayGain will read your edited value and use it.

foobar2k lets you edit ReplayGain values by right clicking on the track and selecting the option from the context menu*. Type in a new value, and click "update tags". That's it!

Problem solved, I hope!

Cheers,
David.

P.S. * - IIRC in the latest versions of fb2k the "edit ReplayGain" option is hidden by default - you have to unhide it in a preferences menu somewhere.


re-reading this, this may be what I need, except at the album level, not the individual file level.  Plus, I'm a newbie to Foobar (I use Winamp mostly) and can't find that setting in preferences

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #22 –
It's not in the preferences.

Using the new 1.0 betas:
1. Highlight the files in an album
2. Hold Shift and right-click to bring up the context menu (you'll notice this brings up more items than a usual right-click)
3. ReplayGain->Edit ReplayGain Info
elevatorladylevitateme

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #23 –
yes!  that's what I was looking for.  Thank you!

I'd love to get it on the normal right click menu, if possible, instead of hitting shift every time.

Looking for something like mp3gain for flac files

Reply #24 –
Quote from: mattdm11 on
I'd love to get it on the normal right click menu

Preferences > Display > Context Menu . . . . items with checkmark appear without Shift