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burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

EDIT - OK, I've edited this post as I've narrowed it down do basically just needing to know one thing.

OK, I have read that my player can not play "DVD-Audio", but it can play "DVD-Video".
As the info given in the manual for my player says:
Video DAC: 54 MHz/10-bit
Audio DAC: 192 kHz/24-bit
I'm sure that allow me to play 24bit/48000 "DVD-Video" (just the audio burned to a DVD) ?

So I think all I need to know is which is the best "free" program to burn "DVD-Video" 24bit/48000 (audio only), not "DVD-Audio".

Thanks !

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #1
First
audio cds are definently not flac, and their not even exactly wave, their cdda, which is similar to wave, but it is different enough to need its own decoder apart from wave in an audio player, flac/wave files are converted to cdda with your cd burning program

as for advice, unless your on a tight budget, dvds are not too terribly expensive so i would experiment some, first i would try burning just the wave files on it and see if that works, you can do that using the burn data dvd in nero
My $.02, may not be in the right currency

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #2
EDIT - OK , I've narrowed it down so there's no need for anyone to read the whole lot of useless info I've just edited out of this post.

Basically all I think I need to know is the best "free" program I can use to burn "DVD-Video" 24bt/48000 (audio only), not "DVD-Audio".

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #3
I think muxman might work. This pages implies it handles 96kHz wav files, so you might be lucky...

http://download.videohelp.com/gfd/

Cheers,
David.

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #4
muxman should work, i just did a quick test (free version), what you need is a bmp picture to go with the sound. Only os software player that seems to play this is VLC (this test iso available on request).
PANIC: CPU 1: Cache Error (unrecoverable - dcache data) Eframe = 0x90000000208cf3b8
NOTICE - cpu 0 didn't dump TLB, may be hung

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #5
I've actually got quite a few double and triple CD disc sets which would be good to be able to put onto a single DVD without having to change the sample rate from 44.1 to 48 for DVD-Video, so as I'd also like to play 24bit stuff I think I'm just going to go and buy a new player which will play DVD-Audio !

Any suggestions what would be the best way to burn 24bit/48 FLAC's as DVD-Audio to DVD ?

I have always used Nero Express 6.6 and Nerovision 3, for CD and DVD and never had a problem.
I know that I will be able to burn DVD-Audio with the same program in "make data DVD" mode.
But I've been told ImgBurn in "build" mode is the best way to go.
Do any of you have any advice on the best way to go about burning DVD-Audio ?

I'm looking forward to hearing this 24bit stuff !

Thanks for the help guys.

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #6
Are you looking for something like "Audio DVD-Video" ? From your post, it seems so. Well, for that, I used Lplex http://audioplex.sourceforge.net/.

I have used this program and it authors 24bit/48kHz WAVs perfectly. It's command line based but all you need to do is to drag your song folder(s) into the .cmd file. Read the readme file and it will explain many options, as well as how to output files for authoring with external software such as DVD Styler.

"Audio DVD-Video" is what some artists are releasing such as Depeche Mode with their Remasters Catalogue in 5.1 and Stereo. They are not real DVD-Audio discs but they are DVD-Video, with the songs and still image movies while they play music. People get confuse over this a lot, even an Amazon.co.uk reviewer said that those discs "were DVD-Audio format".

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #7
I've never made a DVD-Audio disc.*

AFAIK, you need DVD-Audio authoring software...  A couple of programs are:
DVD Audio Tools (FREE open source).
discWelder ($99 USD & up)

And, there are a couple more listed on Wikipedia.


* My DVD player won't play them either.  So, if it was me, I'd make a video-DVD with a still image (AKA a "slide-show" DVD)...  Maybe the "image" would be a picture of the track-information text.

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #8
Your edits of your original posts have made this thread almost impossible to follow. Please try to avoid major edits like this in the future if you require relevant and meaningful answers.
I'm looking forward to hearing this 24bit stuff !
It shouldn't sound any different to the same files presented as properly encoded 16-bit content to the human ear. Can't you just settle for a decent 16-bit transfer of the same thing?

Cheers, Slipstreem. 

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #9
/me impossible to hear a difference between 16bit and 24bit music.

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #10
Your edits of your original posts have made this thread almost impossible to follow. Please try to avoid major edits like this in the future if you require relevant and meaningful answers.
I'm looking forward to hearing this 24bit stuff !
It shouldn't sound any different to the same files presented as properly encoded 16-bit content to the human ear. Can't you just settle for a decent 16-bit transfer of the same thing?

Cheers, Slipstreem. 



Hey, sorry if it confused you, but I thought that was quite a simple question to ask !
If you read it again you'll read I said when I edited it, that I edited out the other stuff because all I need to know is just 1 thing.
I then asked the question "what is the best "free" program people can recommend for burning 24bit/48000 files to DVD-Video ? (but I understand what you mean - hopefully you understand I edited the post down to save you wasting your own time by reading stuff you didn't need to know).

OK to make it clear, I have live music recorded at 24bit/48000 on my hard drive as 24bit/48000 audio FLACS's, which I would like to burn as DVD-Audio onto a single DVD without any quality loss.

Why do you say properly 16bit encoded will sound exactly the same as 24bit ?
I'm hearing from pleanty of people that the live recordings I'm refering to sound a bit better in 24bit compared to 16bit (when played with a high-quality speaker set-up).

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #11
Have these people listened to 16-bit versions of the 24-bit files or differently mastered versions of the 24-bit files in 16-bit?

It's an almost certain bet that neither you nor anybody else will hear any difference whatsoever between a 24-bit encoding or a 16-bit encoding of the same source material with the least significant 8 bits stripped out. Try it by all means, but be sure to carry out a blind comparison between 24-bit and 16-bit encodings of the same source material before assuming that 24-bit will sound any different.

If your playback hardware is equally competent at playing back 24-bit and 16-bit material, I can almost guarantee that you won't hear any difference.

Cheers, Slipstreem. 

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #12
Yeah, they have listened to both 16it and 24bit, and claim to hear a difference... I haven't worried about trying it out in the year or so they've been dealing with it, as to be honest, I've never imagined the difference could be that big !
The reason I'm particularly wanting to start using DVD-Audio is because I have a large collection of various live music (most 16bit/44.1) on CD, and I've become quite tired of burning and storing 2CD and 3CD sets.
It will be nice to just put them all on single DVD-Audio discs, and much easier to store, while I'm at it I plan to give the 24bit recordings a listen (as I've always by my own choice just listened to them as 16bit!).
I have to use DVD-Audio as DVD-Video won't allow me to put all my 16bit/44.1 CD's to DVD-Audio.

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #13
This will have solved all my problems, if only I could figure out how to burn the DVD-Audio without little gaps in between each track/song !

Does anybody know how to do this ?
Apparently when it first was released it was impossible, but I read someone said they think there is a way now to avoid the gaps ?

DVD-Audio Solo Plus Edition v1.6
http://www.cirlinca.com/download.htm

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #14
I think if you merge all of your tracks into one file and encode that as a title, then set chapter marks at the start of each track, that will eliminate the gaps.

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #15
bomber,
            I've used Cirlinca's software for a few years now and I've never had a problem with inter-track gaps, though I think I remember seeing something about it on their website some time ago. Are you sure they're not present on your source files? I guess you realise that DVD Audio Solo will produce true DVD-Audio discs. If you find your DVD player won't play them you might want to try "Audio DVD Creator". This creates discs that will play back in a normal DVD player - effectively a DVD with only a soundtrack - although you can have a still picture behinfd the music if I remember correctly

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #16
This will have solved all my problems, if only I could figure out how to burn the DVD-Audio without little gaps in between each track/song !

Does anybody know how to do this ?
Apparently when it first was released it was impossible, but I read someone said they think there is a way now to avoid the gaps ?

DVD-Audio Solo Plus Edition v1.6
http://www.cirlinca.com/download.htm


Thanks, is that something I do with DVD-Audio Solo Plus ?, or a separate program ?

bomber,
            I've used Cirlinca's software for a few years now and I've never had a problem with inter-track gaps, though I think I remember seeing something about it on their website some time ago. Are you sure they're not present on your source files? I guess you realise that DVD Audio Solo will produce true DVD-Audio discs. If you find your DVD player won't play them you might want to try "Audio DVD Creator". This creates discs that will play back in a normal DVD player - effectively a DVD with only a soundtrack - although you can have a still picture behinfd the music if I remember correctly


The tracks I'm burning definately do not have the gaps, I have them split over 3 normal CD-R's with no gaps.


I noticed when you load in the files and get to "DVD" on the far
right, at the very top next to "write" you can select "disc", and in
"disc" you can select "optimize for gapless inter-track".
Is that a new feauture to remove gaps ?

I have also read that some people have apparently worked out how to
use this program without gaps...
In March 2006 somone wrote :
---------------
it's a picture track.  this app creates a blank picture track by default, which
allows some players to play gapless.  remove the picture track and gaps appear
---------------

When I'm going through the process though I can't see where to make the change.

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #17
Quote
The tracks I'm burning definately do not have the gaps, I have them split over 3 normal CD-R's with no gaps.


I noticed when you load in the files and get to "DVD" on the far
right, at the very top next to "write" you can select "disc", and in
"disc" you can select "optimize for gapless inter-track".
Is that a new feauture to remove gaps ?

I have also read that some people have apparently worked out how to
use this program without gaps...
In March 2006 somone wrote :
---------------
it's a picture track.  this app creates a blank picture track by default, which
allows some players to play gapless.  remove the picture track and gaps appear
---------------

When I'm going through the process though I can't see where to make the change.

bomber,
            Here's the appropriate section from the Help :

Optimize for gapless inter-track – Check this option if you want gapless transitions between tracks.  Please be advised that there will be a gap every 20 still pictures when the DVD-Audio player pre-loads the still pictures. If you do not want any gaps at all, turn off Still Pictures, see Still Pictures Configuration.

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #18
Quote
The tracks I'm burning definately do not have the gaps, I have them split over 3 normal CD-R's with no gaps.


I noticed when you load in the files and get to "DVD" on the far
right, at the very top next to "write" you can select "disc", and in
"disc" you can select "optimize for gapless inter-track".
Is that a new feauture to remove gaps ?

I have also read that some people have apparently worked out how to
use this program without gaps...
In March 2006 somone wrote :
---------------
it's a picture track.  this app creates a blank picture track by default, which
allows some players to play gapless.  remove the picture track and gaps appear
---------------

When I'm going through the process though I can't see where to make the change.

bomber,
            Here's the appropriate section from the Help :

Optimize for gapless inter-track – Check this option if you want gapless transitions between tracks.  Please be advised that there will be a gap every 20 still pictures when the DVD-Audio player pre-loads the still pictures. If you do not want any gaps at all, turn off Still Pictures, see Still Pictures Configuration.


Thanks, I found this info in the menu this morning !, I was so tired last night after a day of trying all these programs I didn't even think to look in the menu as this was the last program I checked out at the end of a long day experimenting with different programs !, I found the exact solution you directed me to in the menu first thing this morning !
This seems like a very decent program for anyone who wants to make DVD-Audio, especially straight from FLAC, this basically does it all in 3-4 simple 1 click steps, most other programs I tried yesterday over a day of experimenting didn't work with FLAC.
DVD-Audio Solo Plus Edition v1.6
http://www.cirlinca.com/download.htm

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #19
Quote
Thanks, I found this info in the menu this morning !, I was so tired last night after a day of trying all these programs I didn't even think to look in the menu as this was the last program I checked out at the end of a long day experimenting with different programs !, I found the exact solution you directed me to in the menu first thing this morning !
This seems like a very decent program for anyone who wants to make DVD-Audio, especially straight from FLAC, this basically does it all in 3-4 simple 1 click steps, most other programs I tried yesterday over a day of experimenting didn't work with FLAC.
DVD-Audio Solo Plus Edition v1.6
http://www.cirlinca.com/download.htm

Yes, it certainly does the job and I've found it to be very easy to use. It supports .ogg and .mp3 too. It's great for squeezing 6 or 7 CDs onto one disc. It's saved me loads of shelf space

EDIT for spelling

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #20
I'm going to check out and consider buying this ZIOVA Clearstream™ CS505, I found out a store 10 minutes from my house is selling them.
It plays basically everything I need, including FLAC !
http://www.a1audio.net.au/newproducts.htm#Cambidge

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #21
Quote
...most other programs I tried yesterday over a day of experimenting didn't work with FLAC.
If you've found a program that does everything you need, that's great!  But in general, decoding FLAC (or other formats) is NOT the "job" of the DVD authoring program.    (And, it does have to be decoded, or transcoded, in order to make a standards-compliant DVD that will play on any Audio-DVD player, because FLAC is not part of DVD standard.)

Some higher-end (video) DVD authoring programs don't even have audio/video encoders or burning capability!  They just create the menu structure, file structure, and multiplex the already-encoded audio & video into VOB files.  (With Audio-DVD, you'll have AOB files in an AUDIO_TS folder.)


- EDIT -   Fixed mis-attributed quote.  Sorry, botface.

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #22
...most other programs I tried yesterday over a day of experimenting didn't work with FLAC.
If you've found a program that does everything you need, that's great!  But in general, decoding FLAC (or other formats) is NOT the "job" of the DVD authoring program.    (And, it does have to be decoded, or transcoded, in order to make a standards-compliant DVD that will play on any Audio-DVD player, because FLAC is not part of DVD standard.)

Some higher-end (video) DVD authoring programs don't even have audio/video encoders or burning capability!  They just create the menu structure, file structure, and multiplex the already-encoded audio & video into VOB files.  (With Audio-DVD, you'll have AOB files in an AUDIO_TS folder.)

That quote isn't actually from me but the OP - not that I'm bothered by it. My fault for accidentally removing his ID when I set the quote

burning 24bit/48000 (audio only) onto a DVD.

Reply #23
DVD-Video can not hold only audio information, however they *can* encode a very small monochromatic image to generate a disc that for all intents and purposes is "audio only"

I can't believe anybody hasn't mentioned it already, but I do this all the time (burn DVD-Video discs with audio) and there is a very simple solution.

The program I use to make such a disc is called Lplex and takes both FLAC and WAV directly. All you do is drop a folder containing the desired files (and not exceeding the space of a single layer DVD [remember it all gets decompressed to LPCM, so the filesize shown in a folder might not be representative of the "on disc" size] dual layer DVDs apparantly CAN be made, but it deosnt seem easy, and with the premium cost you pay for the media, its always more economical to stick with single layer anyways)

This is an open source command line utility. Don't get scared off by command line, using it is actually quite easy. All you need to do is configure the ini file (using a basic text editor such as notepad). All of the information is in the README file, I have included the important parts from the README for you.

These are some excerpts taken directly from the README that deal with configuring the ini file

Code: [Select]
   'video=ntsc' (or 'pal' or 'secam')
      AUTHORING: the TV standard to use; must match your dvd player (for
      the purposes of dvd-video 'pal' and 'secam' are equivalent).

   'alignment=seamless' (or 'discrete' or 'indiscrete' or 'none' )

   'shift=backward' (or 'nearest' or 'forward')
      AUTHORING: direction to shift the track startpoints if 'alignment'
      is 'seamless' (see above).

   'create=iso' (or 'dvd' or 'dvdstyler' or 'mpeg' or 'm2v' or 'lpcm')


   'workPath=[current user's temp folder]' (or any valid path)
      AUTHORING: globally redirects temporary workspace, same as above.



-depending on your region, use ntsc or pal

-since you said you want gapless, use seamless

-Due to limitations in the DVD standard, not this particular software, the audio MUST be shifted if gapless playback is desired. The shift direction is a matter of preference. The shift will not be noticeable if you are playing from start to finish. It only concerns you is if you if you happen to skip forward or backwards to a track. Even then you will only hear the first little bit (less than a second) of the end of the previous song (for shift=backward).

-for the "create" option, I use dvd. as I want the output to be in DVD structure eg. VIDEO_TS folder.This is useful for putting multiple albums on a single DVD. Create the VIDEO_TS for each separate album, then use whatever software will combine all of these "movies" (audio with a small portion of video) into a single image. I use nero Recode. im sure somebody knows of some free alternative.

In the DVD world this is called tracks and titles.
Title 1 will contain x number of tracks up to 99 (99, again DVD-Video standard)
Title 2 will contain y number of tracks up to 99
.
.
.
Title n will contain z number of tracks up to 99 (up to 99 titles *I THINK* but you will probably never go past 6 in all practicallity)

using a dvd remote it is fairly easy to navigate to each without the need for making menus. Thus making various comilations very simple.

Otherwise for compilations (up to 99 tracks, again DVD-Video standard) which you just want to be on one "title". use the create=iso, This will be burnable with most if not all burning software, free or otherwise.

A helpful bit of information that people do not usually know about, is the sample rate and the bit depts and channels supported by DVD-Video. Below is a table which can be found in the README showing the type of audio permitted (yes) and the type of audio supported buy lplex (+). you can use this to your advantage. namely for being able to fit more songs on the DVD at the expense of using 16 bit.


Code: [Select]
   (THEORETICALLY) PERMITTED AUDIO
  
      According to http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/DVD/Book_B/Audio.html,
      dvd-video allows the following types of lpcm.  Lplex presently  
      attempts to support the varieties marked '+'.
      
         Rate  Depth   :   Channels
         (khz) (bits)  :   1     2     5(+1)  8
         -------------------------------------------
         48       16   :   Yes+  Yes+  Yes+   Yes+
                  20   :   Yes   Yes   Yes    -
                  24   :   Yes+  Yes+  Yes+   -
         96       16   :   Yes+  Yes+  -      -
                  20   :   Yes   Yes   -      -
                  24   :   Yes+  Yes+  -      -


Whenever resampling must be done I use Foobar with the Secret Rabbit Code plugin. With the "Best Sinc Interpolator" option.

Again all this stuff is FREE. Happy Listening!! 

 
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