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Topic: Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives (Read 14660 times) previous topic - next topic
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Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

What are the Pro and Cons of using a vintage Plextor for DAE?  I see several vintage Plextor drives with SCSI support for sale on ebay and wonder if these older drives in good condition would yield better results than modern drives.
  • Which vintage Plextor CD Rom would you recomend if any?
  • What vintage Plextor CD R drive would you recomend?
  • How well do SCSI drives work compared ide?
  • Any negatives using a SCSI Plextor on a Mac Pro for DAE?
  • What SCSI card would you recomend for a Mac Pro?

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #1 –
Quote from: macman4hire on
What are the Pro and Cons of using a vintage Plextor for DAE?  I see several vintage Plextor drives with SCSI support for sale on ebay and wonder if these older drives in good condition would yield better results than modern drives.
  • Which vintage Plextor CD Rom would you recomend if any?
  • What vintage Plextor CD R drive would you recomend?
  • How well do SCSI drives work compared ide?
  • Any negatives using a SCSI Plextor on a Mac Pro for DAE?
  • What SCSI card would you recomend for a Mac Pro?


I currently have a Plextor Premium and a PX-708A.  Both are IDE drives and I highly recommend them for DAE.  They both burn well too.

You can probably find either of these for quite reasonable prices on EBay.

The only con I can think of is that you run the risk of buying a drive that was either mistreated or just doesn't have a lot of life left in it.  But, if the price is reaonsable enough, I think it would be worth the risk.  I find these drives to be quite dependable.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #2 –
I can add the PX-W4012A (40/12/40A) to the list. I have the IDE and the external USB version.
Both are excellent rippers and behave similar. I guess the SCSI version isn't inferior.

features:
-excellent error correction
-supports C2
-no drive cache with -usefua in EAC
-supports HTOA
-overread into lead in/out

my ripping procedure:
-start EAC with -usefua
-secure mode, check accurate stream, uncheck drive caches, check C2 error
-test & copy with max speed
-if error correction kicks in, abort ripping process
-test & copy with burst mode, 4x speed

--> good compromise between speed and unreasonable paranoia 

Quote from: maggior on
You can probably find either of these for quite reasonable prices on EBay.

+1
I got both of my drives on eBay, have no problems (so far).

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #3 –
Can you tell me why you switch to burst mode and throttle the speed rather than just throttling the speed?

If you switch to burst because you don't want the drive to perform re-reads, why do you bother with T&C?

If the speed reduction doesn't result in consistent data, then the CRCs won't match.  If the speed reduction does allow the drive to produce consistent data, what do you gain by switching to burst mode?  Why would you want to take away EAC's ability to perform re-reads?

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #4 –
Quote from: greynol on
Can you tell me why you switch to burst mode and throttle the speed rather than just throttling the speed?

The first read is the "error detection" read. If there is no error I keep the rip. If there is an error, I'll switch to 4x, because the error correction is better than at higher speeds.

I use burst mode, because when there are many errors, secure mode is very slow. I mainly deal with copy protected CDs, where there are artificial errors every 5 seconds or so. It just takes too long in secure mode. Test & copy in burst mode suffices. If there is no consistent result, I'll try again one or two times or eventually use secure mode.
But that doesn't happen very often, because the Plextor is very very good at correcting artificial errors. My LG for comparison just writes the last sample again instead of interpolating it.

edit: made quote a little smaller

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #5 –
I've got 5 Plextor SCSI Drives:
PLEXTOR  CD-ROM PX-8XCS
PLEXTOR  CD-ROM PX-40TS
PLEXTOR  CD-R  PX-W124TS
PLEXTOR  CD-R  PX-W1210S
PLEXTOR  CD-R  PX-W4012S

As I'm going to re-rip my CD Collection soon (to get a lossless backup) I recently tested all drives I've got (about 20).
The Plextor SCSI drives have proven to be excellent drives for DAE.
I've now put 4 of the Plextor SCSI dives (all minus the PX-8XCS) into an external SCSI case for a use with dBPoweramp batch ripper.
If used with dBPoweramp the PX-40TS and PX-8XCS cannot be used with the SCSI Pass Through (SPT) Communication mode. The SCSI Pass Through Read(D8) works with these drives, but does not support the C2 feature. The other 3 drives (PX-W124TS, PX-W1210S, PX-W4012S) work with the SCSI Pass Through (SPT) Communication mode and support C2.
Using EAC all these drives support C2.
The PX-W124TS and earlier drives cannot be used to rip copy controlled CDs (2 sessions/wrong TOC). PX-W1210S and newer can rip copy controlled CDs and are very good in this.
I've one CD from 83' that seems to have degraded over time and cannot be read without errors anymore. I used this disc to test the C2 feature. The Plextors did very well with this CD also.
dBPoweramp cannot control the speed of these drives. The speed this way will always be the max speed. If you want to slow the drives down for ripping you will have to use CD Bremse or a similar tool. CD Bremse + dBPoweramp work fine for me. If you use Mac OS for ripping I can't say anything about ripping software and the support of these drives, as I use Windows XP.
So I would recommend the PX-W1210S or the PX-W4012S.
Before putting the drives into the external SCSI case I did open each drive to clean it. I used isopropyl alcohol and cotton buds to clean the lens.
If you buy a used drive a lens cleaning could be useful. The drives can get quite dusty over time. Dusty lenses can result in a non optimal DAE.
I also have got the IDE PX-708A and SATA PX-716A. They're quite good for DAE as well. For some difficult CDs the SCSI Plextors can give better results.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Raiden on
I mainly deal with copy protected CDs, where there are artificial errors every 5 seconds or so.
This is a key point which you should have mentioned with your initial post.

You're basically saying that with copy-protected discs in good condition you get consistent results in burst mode, but when using secure mode there are many instances of re-reads (because the data is getting flagged by C2 pointers).

With non-copy-protected discs, if the drive performs re-reads in secure mode it's overwhelmingly unlikely that you're going to get matching checksums in burst mode.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #7 –
Sorry for my first post being a large mega-bump, but I figured this is probably the best place to put this.

I've just been starting to re-rip a lot of my CD collection to FLAC.  I decided that since I was going to use FLAC I may as well have a shot at getting the best read I could, and some of my CDs skip a little and my current DVD burner seems to fly right through the skips and they wind up in the resulting FLAC.

That said...I found a lauded PX-40TS on eBay for a good deal ($30 shipped) so I figured what the heck.  So...now I need to find a cheap PCI SCSI adapter to toss in the machine.  Can anyone recommend one that'll work well with this drive (and hopefully Win 7/Vista).  Right now I'm using Vista, but I'll probably jump up to Win 7 and I'm hoping Win 7 + EAC + the PX-40TS and SCSI card will give me a good reliable rip station.  Just need a good card...and those seem to be as vintage as the drive, lol.

Thanks y'all, and sorry again for my first post being a mega-bump.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #8 –
Quote from: DreamWarrior on
Sorry for my first post being a large mega-bump, but I figured this is probably the best place to put this.

I've just been starting to re-rip a lot of my CD collection to FLAC.  I decided that since I was going to use FLAC I may as well have a shot at getting the best read I could, and some of my CDs skip a little and my current DVD burner seems to fly right through the skips and they wind up in the resulting FLAC.

That said...I found a lauded PX-40TS on eBay for a good deal ($30 shipped) so I figured what the heck.  So...now I need to find a cheap PCI SCSI adapter to toss in the machine.  Can anyone recommend one that'll work well with this drive (and hopefully Win 7/Vista).  Right now I'm using Vista, but I'll probably jump up to Win 7 and I'm hoping Win 7 + EAC + the PX-40TS and SCSI card will give me a good reliable rip station.  Just need a good card...and those seem to be as vintage as the drive, lol.

Thanks y'all, and sorry again for my first post being a mega-bump.

If you have a free PCIe slot this would be the best option:
http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/products/cont...y/asc-29320lpe/
But you will need a 68 to 50 pin adapter like this to connect the drive to the adapter:
http://discountechnology.com/68pin-50pin-S...yte-Termination
This one you can plug directly onto the scsi card and then run a 50 pin cable to the drive.
Another option would be to use a 68 pin cable and then plug an adapter directly onto the drive. (Take care there are different types male/female)
I do use the first option and it works perfectly for me.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #10 –
Personally I would dump the Plextor - resell it if you like. There are perfectly good CD/DVD drives available for well under $30, and they will drop right into your computer and run on your present/future OS with no problem.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #11 –
Bugs.Bunny:  Thanks, but that PCI-e card is a bit pricey just to control a CD-ROM.

.halverhahn:  The AHA-2930 is an option, but it seems it doesn't have 64 bit compatibility.  It is cheap though, so that's a plus.

In fact, I suppose I did a bit of my own research and found the ASC-19160 that is supported in Win7 x64.  So I guess I'll see if I can get my hands on a reasonably priced 19160 and cross my fingers I didn't just waste my money.

pdq:  Meh, maybe...but I've tried to rip a few of my more scratched up CDs with a few drives now and none of them do it well.  I'm hoping this one will...we shall see I suppose.  But, worse comes to worse, you're right...I'll just resell it or toss it in a closet like the relic it is, lol.

Ya know, the thing that really kills me is I used to have an older Plextor IDE drive that would rip just about anything.  I made a copy of a friend's cd that was so badly scratched that no audio cd player would play it without skipping.  It took the drive and software all night to rip it, but when it was done there were no obvious pops/clicks in the resulting rip.  I don't know what I did with that thing, but I'm hoping this one will work just as well.

Thanks y'all...suppose I'll see how it goes and report back if anyone cares.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #12 –
I think folks here could probably recommend a drive or two that are also quite good at reading scratched discs, and are readily available new.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #13 –
As many people come to this discussion from a search, no apologies for thread resurrection. Too late for the original poster, but used (sometimes unused) Adaptec PCI SCSI cards are available very cheaply and are fine. Adaptec has not supplied updated 64-bit drivers for many cards, including the excellent and popular 2940x range; cards with 64-bit (as well as 32-bit) drivers are very cheap and more future-resistant even if you're using 32-bit operating systems. Many cards are 64-bit PCI cards (totally distinct from having 64-bit drivers, they work in a 32-bit OS); 64-bit cards use longer PCI slots, but the Adaptec 64-bit cards (and most others) will plug into a normal 32-bit PCI socket, overhanging at the end, and work perfectly.

For use with CD-ROM (and DVD) devices speed is totally unimportant, any card is faster, but you can't get slow cards anyway. Check the detailed specifications for the type of connector, number of SCSI buses, external port, etc. (check the entire name with suffixes: the 29160 and 29160N are different, for example). Most of the cards starting 1, 2, or 3, then 9, then 160 or 320, then optional letters will work; 19160, 39320. Some have internal 50-pin connectors; others use a 68-pin cable, connect CD-ROMs with a 50- to 68-pin adapter. One in the range is a crippled half-height card, don't buy. These cards are total overkill; typically you can run 30 fast hard drives off them, a CD-ROM is a bit like using a Maclaren F1 car to accompany a cyclist.

If you haven't used SCSI before, you must get everything right: there must be a terminator or terminated device (set by jumper) on the end of the cable, but nowhere else (not needed at the end that plugs into the card; parity should be enabled in the controller card and on the device (jumper); the device must be set to have a SCSI ID different from any other on that chain (jumpers); default settings of the controller card are probably OK, I use automatic termination, speed 20 (slow), allow disconnect, don't initiate wide negotiation as far as I remember; many settings aren't critical. If you want to cause weird symptoms plug an unterminated cable into the external SCSI connector (I unplugged the cable from a terminated SCSI scanner and got problems till I realised). Get into the controller's setting at boot time: press Ctrl-A when the SCSI card becomes active. Most cards and computer BIOSes can be set to allow boot from SCSI CD-ROM.

HTH

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #14 –
Quote from: pdq on
I think folks here could probably recommend a drive or two that are also quite good at reading scratched discs, and are readily available new.

Although I agree with the idea a Plextor isn't really essential, my old Plextor PX-W4012a has worked faithfully for more than a decade. It's outlasted a Plextor PX-716a and several newer Lite-On and LG DVD drives. It has ripped hundreds of scratched library CD's without issue. For a long time, I only used it on CDs after other drives failed, in a reasonable time, to produce an accurate rip. It wasn't always successful but occasionally it would succeed, and I wasn't as worried about it wearing out while it worked all night ripping a heavily scratched disk. Now I use it on a daily basis as my main DAE drive. Thousands of rips without issue. 
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #15 –
I am interested in buying a drive and from this and many other threads it seems that the old vintage Plextor drives are the ones to have for good DAE.

Are only those Plextor drives that have SCSI support vintage drives.??

When did Plextor stop making drives, so up until what product model number can I know if it is a vintage drive or a newer one??

Thanks.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #16 –
It seems all this hype about over-the-hill SCSI drives is based on anecdotes rather than objective evidence.  Seeking a ~10 year-old drive and having to by controller card if you don't already have one  seems like a waste of time and money.  All for what, the hopes that you might be able to rip a very small number of discs accurately that couldn't be ripped accurately with some other drive?  This is assuming the old relic still functions properly, and if it does you really must ask yourself for how long.

Here's the most recent presentation of drive accuracy based on matching AR submissions:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=86362

Spoiler alert: Plextor SCSI drives to not come out on top.  In fact, the two "best" Plextor drives were not SCSI; they weren't even made by Plextor.  The best three Plextor-made drives on the list are IDE.  After these five "Plextor" drives, we are out of the top 20.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #17 –
Under the assumption that using AR submissions is a valid means of determining drive accuracy, what's the practical advantage of a drive that gives you 99.6% accuracy vs. on that gives you, say, 98.1% accuracy? What does that mean in the real world when you're doing secure rips?

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #18 –
It suggests one drive will be more likely to be able to extract accurate data over another drive when ripping the same disc, assuming that the disc can only be accurately ripped by just one of those drives.

I don't get the "real world" comment since the presentation was completely based on real-world data.

Rolling this back a bit, if we are to assume that the drives at the top of the pack are all going to do a good job, to the point that most people will not notice any benefit, how does this support the suggestion that SCSI drives made by Plextor are "the ones to have"?

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #19 –
By "real world" I just meant in actual use.

Ok, so a drive higher up on the chart would be more likely to extract accurate data from a difficult disk than a lower one. But the differences in accuracy numbers appear to be fairly insignificant. Taking a 99.5% drive at the top and a 98% drive further down, does it meant that _if_ you have a disc with errors that the higher rated drive would have only a 1.5% better chance of extracting the data? That hardly seems worth worrying about.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #20 –
Quote from: JJZolx on
By "real world" I just meant in actual use.

Ok, but it wasn't clear to me that you understood that the data came from actual use.

Quote from: JJZolx on
Taking a 99.5% drive at the top and a 98% drive further down, does it meant that _if_ you have a disc with errors that the higher rated drive would have only a 1.5% better chance of extracting the data? That hardly seems worth worrying about.

I believe you can interpret the data that way, yes; and I agree with your conclusion.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #21 –
You could also interpret that a little differently. Most discs will be read easily by any drive.

If you only consider the discs that, for one reason or another, are difficult then the drive that is 98% accurate fails on four times as many of these discs as one that is 99.5% accurate.

Vintage Plextor CD Rom and CD R Drives

Reply #22 –
I have the Plextor PX-130A, which is #4 in that list.  It seems to do a good job, but I'd note the following:

1) Most CDs I couldn't rip on other drives, still wouldn't rip on this one.  It's not a miracle drive!
2) I imagine the best strategy for ripping damaged CDs is to have several different drives.