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Topic: Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems (Read 6633 times) previous topic - next topic
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Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Hi,

Sorry for the long post, many thanks to anyone who has even a suggestion of how to fix these problems.

I recently purchased a Terratec DMX 6Fire LT soundcard. I am very pleased with it's audio performance generally with a few exceptions.

Firstly, I seem to have a problem with the card picking up noise. This noise can be heard is several different ways.

If I turn up the gain on the MIC input to -18db there is a LOT of noise. If I then move anything on screen, I will hear a pattern of noise that matches the movement on the screen. I suppose this is caused either by noise on the PCI bus caused by my graphics card (complete system spec below). The cable for the MXR extension which has the MIC input on-board runs parallel to the graphics card, so it's a definite possibility it's picking up noise.

If I turn up the gain on the Line In (Internal) to -18db there is some noise, with the same behaviour as above when moving items on screen but there is also a regular (approx every 1 seconds) click in the right channel. I figured this could be caused by electrical noise but why would it only affect the right channel? Btw - using this input doesn't make use of the MXR extension mentioned above, so it shouldn't be noise picked up through that.

Also I have a problem with latency, or at least I might have.

If I set the DMA buffer setting to 1ms I get what seems to be perfect audio, but if I attempt to access any hard disk I will get severe clicking and drop outs. I had assumed my system would be able to handle this setting as I have previously read of P3 1GHZ based systems handling it fine. I suppose that it may not have been tested properly though.

The strange thing is that if I set the DMA buffer size to 15ms the audio is worse than ever. I would have thought it would only improve? Currently I have it set at 7ms and everything is fine except when I'm extracting audio from my TEAC W524E using EAC there will be quite regular clicking, dropouts and speed changes in music being played with Winamp at the same time. I had previously noticed a problem like this with my Soundblaster Audigy but it was only very light clicking. I know the Audigy has problems with PCI bus latencies etc, I would have thought the Terratec card would be better!

Some details about my system which may help:

Iwill XP333R motherboard (Revision 2.0)

I have tried various different BIOS versions, none of them fixed the problems. I did manage to make the problems with low latency and disk access less noticable by moving the Terratec to PCI slot 5. On board sound is disabled. My hard disks are connected to the Highpoint RAID controller. My CDRW is connected to the motherboards native IDE controller (secondary master).

There are no devices sharing IRQ's except the NIC & the RAID controller, and my WinTV card with my GeForce 3 ti500. There is definitely no IRQ/Memory/other sharing with any sound device.

Btw this problem also occurs when the only PCI device in my system is the Terratec card.

AMD Athlon XP 1600+

The CPU is not overclocked but it is "under-volted". This is not the cause of the problem though and the system is 100% stable. (It's under-volted to decrease the cooling required. It's an AGNGA series core, which means its actually a 1900+ CPU marked as a 1600+ and so it's able to run at it's default speed of 1.4GHZ on a lower voltage).

512MB Kingston ValueRAM

This RAM was added to my system recently in place of 256MB of Crucial. It's being run within spec and I suppose it shouldn't be a problem. I had not checked for any system noise when I had my Crucial RAM however I don't think the problem with concurrent hard drive transfers and EAC extraction was quite so noticable, although this is probably my imagination.

Adtronics 420w PSU - should be enough! Voltages are fine, although I suppose it could bring noise into the system?

Video card is a Creative Labs GeForce 3 ti500 manufactured by MSI.

Last notes, the card is using the latest driver version (the problem was preset with previous versions also). I have tried a fresh install of Windows XP both with and without SP1 and the latest critical updates. I have also tested the sound before installing any other PCI device drivers. I've even tried with ACPI disabled!

Many many thanks to anyone who can help answer my questions or clear up these issues! Sorry for the long post!
-dave

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #1 –
Quote
Also I have a problem with latency, or at least I might have.

If I set the DMA buffer setting to 1ms I get what seems to be perfect audio, but if I attempt to access any hard disk I will get severe clicking and drop outs. I had assumed my system would be able to handle this setting as I have previously read of P3 1GHZ based systems handling it fine. I suppose that it may not have been tested properly though.

I've experienced the same problems with DMA buffer latency below 7ms (on my terratec EWX 24/96). I've managed to solve this problem by defragmenting the drive were the music files are stored (by O&O defragment utility choosing the  “full name” defragmentetion options which means that all files are reorganized and stored again in alphabetical order and not just defragmented). Further on I keep all the music files separate from the OS (and the swap file) drive and it seems that my system can handle also the lowest latency times without dropouts. (specs.: athlon XP 1700, two Maxtor drives udma133 (40 & 80 G), 512 MB DDR memory)
(other problems such as cracking when recording a file choosing 5ms latency also disappeared above )
At this moment I use ASIO plugin for playback (winamp, music center 9.0) which gives me the lowest possible latency  with very low or none dropouts)

I would recommend calling the terratec hotline to find out what’s causing your problems (especially the high nose level).

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #2 –
Quote
Quote

Also I have a problem with latency, or at least I might have.

If I set the DMA buffer setting to 1ms I get what seems to be perfect audio, but if I attempt to access any hard disk I will get severe clicking and drop outs. I had assumed my system would be able to handle this setting as I have previously read of P3 1GHZ based systems handling it fine. I suppose that it may not have been tested properly though.

I've experienced the same problems with DMA buffer latency below 7ms (on my terratec EWX 24/96). I've managed to solve this problem by defragmenting the drive were the music files are stored (by O&O defragment utility choosing the  “full name” defragmentetion options which means that all files are reorganized and stored again in alphabetical order and not just defragmented). Further on I keep all the music files separate from the OS (and the swap file) drive and it seems that my system can handle also the lowest latency times without dropouts. (specs.: athlon XP 1700, two Maxtor drives udma133 (40 & 80 G), 512 MB DDR memory)
(other problems such as cracking when recording a file choosing 5ms latency also disappeared above )
At this moment I use ASIO plugin for playback (winamp, music center 9.0) which gives me the lowest possible latency  with very low or none dropouts)

I would recommend calling the terratec hotline to find out what’s causing your problems (especially the high nose level).

My Windows installation is fresh, I've defragged it and the problem occurs when playing/loading/saving music files that are on a different drive & IDE controller.

The strange thing is that I just checked and the problem does NOT occur with my Audigy 2, which I am quite shocked about.

I think the crackling issue can probably be fixed by adjusting the pci latency for my motherboard but my BIOS has no such option

Thanks anyway! I might try the Terratec helpline if all else fails...

-dave

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #3 –
You should call the help line or write them a mail. I did so when I had problems with surround sound (which is probably still not resolved but I had no time to test until now) and they answer relatively quickly.

I have none of the problems you described, neither noise when raising MIC in gain (even when it is set to maximum) nor stuttering (DMA buffer is set to 10msec). Also have a 6fire LT, athlon xp1800, etc.

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #4 –
Quote
You should call the help line or write them a mail. I did so when I had problems with surround sound (which is probably still not resolved but I had no time to test until now) and they answer relatively quickly.

I have none of the problems you described, neither noise when raising MIC in gain (even when it is set to maximum) nor stuttering (DMA buffer is set to 10msec). Also have a 6fire LT, athlon xp1800, etc.

I'm gonna see if changing the pci latency of my graphics card will solve at least the stuttering/dropout issue. It's apparently really common with GeForce cards because they have their PCI latency set at 248.

I'll update this thread if all goes well, it might be of help to someone.

Thanks!
-dave

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #5 –
Quote
Quote
You should call the help line or write them a mail. I did so when I had problems with surround sound (which is probably still not resolved but I had no time to test until now) and they answer relatively quickly.

I have none of the problems you described, neither noise when raising MIC in gain (even when it is set to maximum) nor stuttering (DMA buffer is set to 10msec). Also have a 6fire LT, athlon xp1800, etc.

I'm gonna see if changing the pci latency of my graphics card will solve at least the stuttering/dropout issue. It's apparently really common with GeForce cards because they have their PCI latency set at 248.

I'll update this thread if all goes well, it might be of help to someone.

Thanks!
-dave

Well I finally changed the latency of the graphics card and it didn't change anything.

I also updated to the latest drivers for my RAID controller, also didn't change a thing.

It looks like the only option left is to remove the GeForce3 completely to see if its causing any problems.

-dave

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #6 –
Hi there. I'm very interested in your results, since I have also some problems with my Terratec (mine is a Fire 24/96, same as yours except that it has a breakout box). I hace problems with electrical noise in the box. It catches noise when I'm running at the same time my CD-ROM devices, and also catches noise from operation of my HD's. With the card itself, there is no problem, no noise at all is catched. I have also problems with stability in my system. I'm not able to play games properly with hardware acceleration. I really think that most of the problems this series of cards create, are fault of the crappy architecture of the drivers being made by Terratec. Anyway, if you find a solution for your problem, please let me know. Thanks in advance.

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #7 –
Quote
Hi there. I'm very interested in your results, since I have also some problems with my Terratec (mine is a Fire 24/96, same as yours except that it has a breakout box). I hace problems with electrical noise in the box. It catches noise when I'm running at the same time my CD-ROM devices, and also catches noise from operation of my HD's. With the card itself, there is no problem, no noise at all is catched. I have also problems with stability in my system. I'm not able to play games properly with hardware acceleration. I really think that most of the problems this series of cards create, are fault of the crappy architecture of the drivers being made by Terratec. Anyway, if you find a solution for your problem, please let me know. Thanks in advance.

I've tried everything now except for taking out the graphics card and trying the soundcard on another motherboard.

I might try to modify my BIOS so I can enable the PCI latency and a few other options, hopefully one of them will help.

What motherboard do you have? I'll keep you informed.

-dave

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #8 –
Hi again. My configuration is as follows:

Asus A7a266 motherboard
512 MB of Samsung DDR
Seagate 5400 RPM 40 gig HD
Seagate 5400 RPM 60 gig HD
Lite-On 48125w burner
Matshita 16x DVD-ROM
Lan 10/100 Mbit card
Geforce 2 TI 64 MB graphics card
AMD Athlon XP 1600+ CPU

My system isn't overclocked at the moment. From the test I've made, I can tell you some things:

-The external box catches noise with each HD (small amount).
-The external box catches noise when the CD-ROM devices are in operation (big amount).
-None of my PCI cards add noise. Previously I had a RAID card and a second sound card. So I had the Terratec plus three more PCI cards, and no discernable noise could be heard.
-The card itself does not catch any noise. I mean, I can't hear any noise from the outputs of the card itself.
-Removing the box from the case greatly reduced the noise present, but it is still present. I would suggest you to do the same with the expansion card, if you are able (don't know the lenght of the included cable, mine is big enough).
-I tried every PCI slot available. No changes noticed.
-I changed the PSU for one that supplies more stable voltages. No changes noticed.

My thought is that is fault of the included ATA-like cable, since it isn't isolated properly, but I don't know where I could get a suitable cable, due to the fact that this cable uses every pin available. You say the outputs of your card also get noise...that is strange, indeed, since I know the card is very very well protected.

In the stability/performance issue, I don't have the weird problems you describe with the latencies. I have the buffer set to 10 milliseconds. I tried 1 millisecond, but it sometimes made pops and clicks. But I must say, with such an extremely low buffer, that is absolutely normal. The problem you describe with the gains in the line in and mic in are normal, due to a very high gain setting, and software enabled. I only get the click and pop problem with the line in gain when applied trough the external box (because is the part that gets the noise), but again, I don't experience the problem when the line in is the input in the card. I have installed Windows 98 SE, so I don't know if my problems with games can be consecuence of a lack of optimization for this SO. I've heard before about problems with the Terratec and Win XP. If you're able, please test it in a Windows 2000 environment.

Do you think changing the PCI latency in the bios could improve the performance? I could do that with my motherboard. Just let me know what setting do you think is addecuate (I've never messed with PCI latency before, so I don't have experience), I'll try it and tell you the results. Oh, and if you know any e-mail of Terratec where I could ask for a solution, also let me know. Thanks, and see you soon

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #9 –
Quote
Do you think changing the PCI latency in the bios could improve the performance? I could do that with my motherboard. Just let me know what setting do you think is addecuate (I've never messed with PCI latency before, so I don't have experience), I'll try it and tell you the results. Oh, and if you know any e-mail of Terratec where I could ask for a solution, also let me know. Thanks, and see you soon

Just set it to max and see if it solves something. I have epox 8kha+ and SB 64 pci, at 32clks I get static, at 64 its ok.

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #10 –
Hi Mc Tanza,

Quote
Hi again. My configuration is as follows:

Asus A7a266 motherboard
512 MB of Samsung DDR
Seagate 5400 RPM 40 gig HD
Seagate 5400 RPM 60 gig HD
Lite-On 48125w burner
Matshita 16x DVD-ROM
Lan 10/100 Mbit card
Geforce 2 TI 64 MB graphics card
AMD Athlon XP 1600+ CPU


Hmmm the only things in common between our systems are the CPU (doubtful that would cause problems) and the Northbridge chipset (ALi Magik 1). My previous board was an A7A266 actually.

Perhaps if other people are able to use a 1ms buffer then the ALi Magik is probably to blame.

Quote
My system isn't overclocked at the moment. From the test I've made, I can tell you some things:

-The external box catches noise with each HD (small amount).
-The external box catches noise when the CD-ROM devices are in operation (big amount).
-None of my PCI cards add noise. Previously I had a RAID card and a second sound card. So I had the Terratec plus three more PCI cards, and no discernable noise could be heard.
-The card itself does not catch any noise. I mean, I can't hear any noise from the outputs of the card itself.
-Removing the box from the case greatly reduced the noise present, but it is still present. I would suggest you to do the same with the expansion card, if you are able (don't know the lenght of the included cable, mine is big enough).
-I tried every PCI slot available. No changes noticed.
-I changed the PSU for one that supplies more stable voltages. No changes noticed.


I also think that moving the expansion card outside of the PC will definitely lower the noise problems on the MIC input but I am more worried about noise on the line in at the moment.

Quote
My thought is that is fault of the included ATA-like cable, since it isn't isolated properly, but I don't know where I could get a suitable cable, due to the fact that this cable uses every pin available. You say the outputs of your card also get noise...that is strange, indeed, since I know the card is very very well protected.


Actually theres no noise on the outputs as such, only when there is noise coming from the inputs. The only time I get output noise is when there is disk access at the same time, then I get crackles etc. This seems to be ok with my DMA buffer set to 10ms but I really should be able to get it down to 1ms and I definitely should be able to use 15ms without the terrible crackling & dropouts it causes!

I suspect the expansion cable as well but unfortunately it isn't a standard IDE cable so I don't know what can be done about replacing it.

Quote
In the stability/performance issue, I don't have the weird problems you describe with the latencies. I have the buffer set to 10 milliseconds. I tried 1 millisecond, but it sometimes made pops and clicks.


Exactly the problem I have. Like I said previously I don't know if I *should* be able to put the buffer down to 1ms, it's just that I've read somewhere (don't have a link sorry) about a P3 1GHZ system having the buffer set to 1ms and working perfectly.

Quote
But I must say, with such an extremely low buffer, that is absolutely normal.


I think I will email Terratec support, I suppose if they tell me the same thing it must be right!

Quote
The problem you describe with the gains in the line in and mic in are normal, due to a very high gain setting, and software enabled. I only get the click and pop problem with the line in gain when applied trough the external box (because is the part that gets the noise), but again, I don't experience the problem when the line in is the input in the card.


I'm willing to ignore the noise on the MIC input. The Line-In gives me a very low level of noise, just a slight hiss if you listen carefully with a loud headphone volume, which is probably completely normal. The regular clicking in the right channel definitely isn't normal though IMO.

Quote
I have installed Windows 98 SE, so I don't know if my problems with games can be consecuence of a lack of optimization for this SO. I've heard before about problems with the Terratec and Win XP. If you're able, please test it in a Windows 2000 environment.


If considered this but unfortunately I don't have a Win2000 install CD. I could probably borrow one from work to test but I really can't be bothered going through yet another install.

Quote
Do you think changing the PCI latency in the bios could improve the performance? I could do that with my motherboard. Just let me know what setting do you think is addecuate (I've never messed with PCI latency before, so I don't have experience), I'll try it and tell you the results. Oh, and if you know any e-mail of Terratec where I could ask for a solution, also let me know.


I don't really know what you should set the PCI latency to or whether or not it will actually help. I don't have the facility to do this in my BIOS but I have played with the latency settings in Powerstrip and it didn't help at all. I'm not sure if the settings were really changing though as setting all cards on a very low or very high setting didn't cause any system instability as I would expect.

The email for Terratec should be on their website, at least that's where I'm going to look..

-dave

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #11 –
I just filled in a support form on terratec.net regarding the noise on the MIC input, the clicking on the line input and asking whether or not 1ms should be possible and why I have such bad clicking and drop-outs with 15ms.

I'll post details here as soon as I get a reply.

-dave

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #12 –
Thanks for your detailed answer. This afternoon I'll try different PCI latencies trough the bios. I'll start with high ones, just as daniel has suggested (thanks daniel). Tonight I'll post my experiences and we'll see if is there any change. See you soon.

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #13 –
Quote
Thanks for your detailed answer. This afternoon I'll try different PCI latencies trough the bios. I'll start with high ones, just as daniel has suggested (thanks daniel). Tonight I'll post my experiences and we'll see if is there any change. See you soon.

Mc Tanza

Do you have a RAID controller on your system? I'm reading various things now about the Highpoint RAID controller (which I have built on to my motherboard) causes problems with sound cards, specifically the latency problems I'm having.

It looks like my only solution might be to disable it 

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #14 –
OK, problem solved!

Basically the problem only occurs when running Windows XP with the Highpoint RAID controller on it's default PCI latency (64 clks). Under Windows ME (once I installed the Ultra DMA drivers for my IDE controllers) I only had occasional clicks when using a DMA buffer of 1ms.

So on to the fix. Basically, the only solution I could find was to lower the PCI latency of the Highpoint controller to 8 clks. (You might be able to achieve the same by setting your PCI latency timer to 8 in your BIOS).

Now I have a DMA buffer of 1ms, several transfers going on (transfer from CD to RAID controller, transfer from one RAID partition to another) and lame encoding an mp3, consuming 100% cpu and I only get a very occasional click (after 5 mins or so). I suppose this is quite normal at 100% load, so I've increased the DMA buffer to 3ms and all is well.

The downside to all this is that my RAID benchmark in Sandra has dropped from 37,500 to 31,500. Not a major loss but still something. (The reference benchmark for 2 x 7200 rpm drives is 36,300).

If you need any help let me know.

-dave

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #15 –
Thank you for the information and the suggestions. I'm happy to hear that your problem is partially solved. I don't have any real issue with the latency. When I set it to 1 millisecond, I only get clicks under heavy load of the cpu. I have set it to 10 just for safety. I have a Highpoint controller, but it is a PCI card, and I don't have installed it at the moment, so that can't be the reason of my system unstability. By the way, I have experimented with PCI latencies today, and didn't notice any change in stability. However, my first concern goes to the noise, since more or less, I'm able to play games with the right options activated. I'll send a message to them for tips on how to avoid noise. Please, let me know if Terratec answer to your support form. See you soon.

Terratec DMX 6Fire LT problems

Reply #16 –
Quote
Thank you for the information and the suggestions. I'm happy to hear that your problem is partially solved. I don't have any real issue with the latency. When I set it to 1 millisecond, I only get clicks under heavy load of the cpu. I have set it to 10 just for safety. I have a Highpoint controller, but it is a PCI card, and I don't have installed it at the moment, so that can't be the reason of my system unstability. By the way, I have experimented with PCI latencies today, and didn't notice any change in stability. However, my first concern goes to the noise, since more or less, I'm able to play games with the right options activated. I'll send a message to them for tips on how to avoid noise. Please, let me know if Terratec answer to your support form. See you soon.

I've given up on Terratec support. The only useful info I got out of them was to enable the Sensaura 3d option in order to use hardware directsound. I didn't really get a proper explanation of what effect this has other than something very vague about this making the Terratec act like any other "sound card" rather than an "audio card".

Anyway - on all other points, no help from them at all. Just repeated questions about which other soundcard I have, have I disabled it, have I made sure there are no IRQ conflicts, stuff I explained to them many times.

My current situation is that I disabled the on-board RAID completely and re-installed Windows, because I found that although my RAID read scores were almost normal my write scores were terrible.

I then found that my on-board IDE controller was causing the same issue. Of course, if I adjusted the pci latency it would go away, at the expense of performance. New BIOS/drivers helped things a little but the problem didn't go away.

So, now I have plugged in a cheap (approx 25 euro) PCI IDE controller that works perfectly. Only my DVD-Rom & CDRW are on the motherboards IDE controller, this seems to work without problems.

I will definitely think twice before buying AMD, Iwill or ALi again. It's just not worth the trouble.

-dave