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Topic: DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables (Read 41862 times) previous topic - next topic
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DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Do audiophile turntables in the $350-$700 price range beat similarly priced DJ style turntables?  It seems like there is big division, and I know audiophile gear tends to be way overpriced, so I'm not sure which side quality resides on.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #1 –
Quote from: treeninja on
Do audiophile turntables in the $350-$700 price range beat similarly priced DJ style turntables?  It seems like there is big division, and I know audiophile gear tends to be way overpriced, so I'm not sure which side quality resides on.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.



DJ turntables are optimized for durability, skip resistance, manual manipulation of the platter, and rather weighty, heavy duty cartridges.

High quality home turntables are optimized for precise tracking, minimal motor noise, vibration isolation (hopefully), sonic qualities and rather delicate tonearms and cartridges.

Good audiophile turntables coupled with high quality tone arms and cartridges can re-produce excellent sound that can far exceed that from a DJ turn turntable. These tend to be expensive and only your wallet can say whether price justifies the sonic difference.

Can you get that kind of quality at 300-700? Can you get better than DJ quality at $300-700? hard to say.

$700 is at the mid to upper end of DJ turntables, but the bottom (some would say basement) of audiophile vinyl sets ups.  The DJ gear may well outperform the audiophile gear at this price point. I don't know.

Used audiophile gear may be a better bargain than new at the low end, but I would urge you to listen very carefully.
EAC secure | FLAC  --best -V -b 4096 | LAME 3.97 -V0 -q0 -b32

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #2 –
DJ Turntables are directly driven by the motor, rather than connected via a belt.  Since a record player turns movement into sound (via the needle), the vibration & rumble from the motor makes its way into the audio signal.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #3 –
I'd rather ask can audiophile turntables in the range of $300-$700 range compete with DJ turntable in the range of $900-$1200?

And aparently the answer is No, when looking at certain basical differences (benski is so right). I don't think there's a direct drive mechanism that can compete with belt drives. Onky thing you can do is use very delicate and vibration-free motors, but I doubt that you'll find them in DJ turntables, which rather need robust than silent motors.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #4 –
Probably the best, audio quality wise, for under several thousand comes from the DJ world: the Technics 1200. Take a look at the development history and what KAB has done at
http://www.kabusa.com/
You don't need the special modifications, just a proper cartridge. There should be NO detectable motor noise, vibration, or pitch variations in recordings made from one of these TT.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #5 –
Quote from: AndyH-ha on
Probably the best, audio quality wise, for under several thousand comes from the DJ world: the Technics 1200. Take a look at the development history and what KAB has done at
http://www.kabusa.com/
You don't need the special modifications, just a proper cartridge. There should be NO detectable motor noise, vibration, or pitch variations in recordings made from one of these TT.


...and:
- you can drop it from a twenty-four story building and it still works
- every club or bar in your neighbourhood has spare parts
- you get the best pitch control on any TT, ever
- you can sell it to any random bloke in the pub and get a fair price
- you can use the platter as a highly effective murder weapon

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #6 –
I have an audiophile table (Music Hall MMF-5) in this price range, one that is highly praised, and honestly I am not happy with it. Its motor noise is quite prominent, its speed accuracy is poor, its noise isolation is not as good as people say.

I haven't tried any pro-sumer table like the SL1200, but they are described as having superior speed control, no motor noise and quite good noise isolation. Plus they have excellent resale markets. In hindsight, I probably would have been better off with a SL1200.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #8 –
Really, there's no such thing as an audiophile turntable in the $350-700 range.  That's barely enough to buy entry-level equipment.  This would be an example of audiophile gear.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Axon on
I have an audiophile table (Music Hall MMF-5) in this price range, one that is highly praised, and honestly I am not happy with it. Its motor noise is quite prominent, its speed accuracy is poor, its noise isolation is not as good as people say.

I haven't tried any pro-sumer table like the SL1200, but they are described as having superior speed control, no motor noise and quite good noise isolation. Plus they have excellent resale markets. In hindsight, I probably would have been better off with a SL1200.


Wow, thanks for that info-- I was considering that exact model, actually (along with a Rega P1 or P3 or a Pro-Ject)... I went to an audiophile gear store locally to hear the P3 , where, of course, I got lame customer service, and when I heard the p3 I was not impressed... Seemed like a lot of money for what I was hearing.

I guess the consensus is that a DJ turntable would be best in this price range?

Ok, well since DJ tables apparently put more needle pressure on the vinyl, is there any possibility that a DJ table will end up damaging the grooves of the albums in my record collection of played a lot of times?

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #10 –
Quote from: audiophilosophy on
Ok, well since DJ tables apparently put more needle pressure on the vinyl, is there any possibility that a DJ table will end up damaging the grooves of the albums in my record collection of played a lot of times?

Why should that be? You determine the pressure on the needle by setting the counterweight to anything from 0 to ~8 grams. Direct-mount cartridges run at about 3g, shellmounts at ~1.5g. This does not relate to 'phile vs DJ equipment.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #11 –
The confusion with pressures is because virtually everybody who uses a DJ table for actual DJing uses a conical/spherical stylus, which tracks at a much higher tracking force than higher end stylii.

For the most part, you can run just about every cartridge out there on a DJ table. I might not want to run a low compliance cart like the DL103 on it though, simply because the tonearms tend to be very low mass.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #12 –
You might want to consider taking the money you save from getting a DJ turntable and getting some sort of record cleaning regimen in place. Most authorities state that a good vacuum cleaner gives high increases in audio quality. However, so far I have been completely unable to quantify this, and I've had equal shares of records, in both good and bad conditions, both before and after cleaning.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Axon on
You might want to consider taking the money you save from getting a DJ turntable and getting some sort of record cleaning regimen in place. Most authorities state that a good vacuum cleaner gives high increases in audio quality. However, so far I have been completely unable to quantify this, and I've had equal shares of records, in both good and bad conditions, both before and after cleaning.


When I had a turntable and vinyl, I regularly used a vacuum cleaner. I certainly takes out a lot of dust clicks and pops noise. That alone makes it worth while.
EAC secure | FLAC  --best -V -b 4096 | LAME 3.97 -V0 -q0 -b32

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #14 –
What about this as an alternative?

Sony

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #15 –
alternative to the Technics SL1200? You were not paying attention.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #16 –
For $300-700 you could buy a used model and upgrade it a bit. For example, older technics silver 1970's turntables (SL1200-1700 series, preferrably mkII versions) go for around $100 on ebay all the time; add in another couple hundred or so for a decent 1/2" cartridge, maybe a new tonearm and some other mods, a decent preamp, and you've got a decent turntable that might approach what some would classify as 'audiophile-grade.'

The great thing about the older technics DD tables is that they're rock solid units, and with some care, they last a long while.

If you're looking for something in that price range to pair with $50,000 worth of tube amps and speakers, then you're not going to find it.

The SL-1200's that most every professional DJ uses is a safe bet for all the reasons stated by other posters. Just add in an audiophile/hifi cartrdige and you should have a great turntable for years to come.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #17 –
Those TT do have a very good reputation for durability, but some in DJ usage put in a great many hours of extra special heavy duty time. DJs tend to do things with them that would cause a normal person to grimace and cringe. I've read a few complaints from people who bought used DJ tables, sight unseen, and found that necessary repairs would run more than a new TT. Being sure what you are getting before you part with money could be a very good idea.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #18 –
Ok, well what are some good cartridges that would go well with a Technics SL1200?  I am not interested in getting a DJ style cart.  I just want a good cart for listening on my home stereo.  My budget is around $200.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #19 –
The usual recommendation in that price range is the Audio Technica AT440MLa. $90.

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #20 –
or the Shure M97XE

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Axon on
You might want to consider taking the money you save from getting a DJ turntable and getting some sort of record cleaning regimen in place. Most authorities state that a good vacuum cleaner gives high increases in audio quality. However, so far I have been completely unable to quantify this, and I've had equal shares of records, in both good and bad conditions, both before and after cleaning.



I would vouch for LP cleaning.  I curently use a VPI cleaner to clean all vinyl before playback.  If you saw the output liquid from the machine (which comes out like some grey/green goo from a combination of dust, fingerprints, smoke and other scary elements) it would make you sick.  I have frequently demonstrated to customers the end difference by providing one cleaning in my shop of any of their favorite records, and noted to them the sound before and after.  I have gained some serious business with this simple test, where most people notice a striking removal of surface noise, and 'hidden crap' in the grooves that will cause loud pops or clicks.  furthermore, removing the acid from your records from fingerprints (human contact) will largely lengthen the life of your vinyl.  Also, remember that every play will 'remove' small debris from the grooves of your vinyl.  An occaisional cleaning will remove this debris which will cause background noise.  In the end, you must try this yourself, just find a shop or dealer who has a VPI  (or similar fluid/vacuum cleaner) and see what you notice.  One obvious thing to mention, after cleaning, the record should be resleeved in a new soft (angel type) sleeve, to prevent all the dust trapped in the sleeve going back on the record.  If you want some examples of what my 'cleaned' records sound like, try my webblog where I rip my vinyl for sharing:  www.pwemb.blogspot.com  keep in mind that some of these records have minimal damage beforehand, and cleaning will not 'fix' a scratched record, but in some cases will minimalize the effect.

Quote from: treeninja on
Ok, well what are some good cartridges that would go well with a Technics SL1200?  I am not interested in getting a DJ style cart.  I just want a good cart for listening on my home stereo.  My budget is around $200.



If it helps, I moved from Shure & Stanton cartridges and have been using various Ortofon carts and have been extremely happy with them.  A decent cart will cost you <$100

Quote from: Axon on
The usual recommendation in that price range is the Audio Technica AT440MLa. $90.



I generally stay away from audio technica at the lower end, I had several on my shop tables and found the playback to be somewhat abrasive sounding.  They are good for the cheaper-get-a-lot-of-use type table that isn't for anything close to audiophile style listening, ie- playstations in shops, but for personal use I generally would go with something like an Ortofon, which you can find for a similar price range.  JMO

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Dreamwave on
I would vouch for LP cleaning.  I curently use a VPI cleaner to clean all vinyl before playback.  If you saw the output liquid from the machine (which comes out like some grey/green goo from a combination of dust, fingerprints, smoke and other scary elements) it would make you sick.  I have frequently demonstrated to customers the end difference by providing one cleaning in my shop of any of their favorite records, and noted to them the sound before and after.  I have gained some serious business with this simple test, where most people notice a striking removal of surface noise, and 'hidden crap' in the grooves that will cause loud pops or clicks.  furthermore, removing the acid from your records from fingerprints (human contact) will largely lengthen the life of your vinyl.  Also, remember that every play will 'remove' small debris from the grooves of your vinyl.  An occaisional cleaning will remove this debris which will cause background noise.  In the end, you must try this yourself, just find a shop or dealer who has a VPI  (or similar fluid/vacuum cleaner) and see what you notice.

I've already bought in with a KAB EV-1 and have used assorted cleaning fluids with it. And yeah, I've seen it remove all sorts of stuff. Again, I'm not doubting that it does something, I'm just not convinced that it's actually worth the time to do the cleaning, at least for full-manual cleaners. Put another way: Subjectively, the sonic benefit I obtain from a full vacuum clean seems slightly better than using a carbon fiber brush, and about as good as applying Gruv-Glide. But I'm not even sure of that much. That's not exactly a good return on my investment! And no, a VPI is not likely to be any better than what I'm already doing, so I'm not interested in trying one out. (I've tried many, many different iterations of cleaning regimens.)

Again, I suspect that a cleaner is going to give a sonic benefit, but I cannot completely prove it, and my subjective experiences do not solidly back it up. If you can provide any further evidence, it will have to be something objective (see TOS8) - and I would be very interested in any before/after recordings of a record cleaning, if you have the time to make them.

Quote
One obvious thing to mention, after cleaning, the record should be resleeved in a new soft (angel type) sleeve, to prevent all the dust trapped in the sleeve going back on the record.  If you want some examples of what my 'cleaned' records sound like, try my webblog where I rip my vinyl for sharing:  www.pwemb.blogspot.com  keep in mind that some of these records have minimal damage beforehand, and cleaning will not 'fix' a scratched record, but in some cases will minimalize the effect.

I'll agree with this, and I repackage my records after cleaning. Although again, you'd need to do some measurements to be sure. Given the small effects I've seen so far I haven't been sensitive enough to notice this sort of thing.

Quote
I generally stay away from audio technica at the lower end, I had several on my shop tables and found the playback to be somewhat abrasive sounding.  They are good for the cheaper-get-a-lot-of-use type table that isn't for anything close to audiophile style listening, ie- playstations in shops, but for personal use I generally would go with something like an Ortofon, which you can find for a similar price range.  JMO

I respect your opinion, although a lot of other opinions I've read believe the AT sound is quite good. I mainly suggested the 440 because I own it and like it a lot, and I have very little experience with other carts. (Plus the 440MLa is allegedly much better sounding than the 440ML; I don't own the 440MLa though.) That said, it is somewhat poorly constructed, with the plastic body not cut quite right.

I always figured that Ortofons and Stantons were competitive but I never really researched them (and in that price range are for some reason unpopular...)

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #23 –
Related to this, are there any very good phono peamps for less than $300?

DJ turntables vs. Audiophile Turntables

Reply #24 –
They can certainly be made. The receiver containing the phono preamp I use most of the time didn't cost much more than $300. I can find no deficiencies with it. However, I can't tell you much about the stand-alone phono preamps being sold in that price range except that there are a fair number of them.