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Topic: Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference! (Read 28167 times) previous topic - next topic
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Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

I currently have Final Scratch 2.0, and I think it's the greatest thing since soy ice cream!!

Seems like Final Scratch was the front runner in popularity being the first in the market with V 1.0. 
This version had lot's of latency problems though....  Many people were turned off from this product because it wasn't perfected yet.

Then a couple years later released Version 2.0, (new hardware and software) correcting all the previous latency problems.

Around the same time Rane released Serato Scratch Live which seems to have taken over in popularity here in NY.

A this point seems to me that both products are extremely similiar in ability to control digital files with no delay or latency.

However, Final Scratch's software Traktor includes a fuctiion where you can lock the key (keep it the same) while adjusting the pitch.  Serato doesn't include this feature.  In addtion Native Instruments (the company that makes traktor for Final Scratch) has an upgrade called DJ Studio 3 that works with final scratch.  This DJ studio 3 software has more features than you would ever need for playing live, (tons of filters, reverb, delays, looping features, simultaneously play 4 files with vinyl control, etc...)

In all fairness I've heard that Serato functions better than Final Scratch on laptops with less powerful processors and RAM..

Whew... lot of info... OK, let's hear some other opinions ?

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #1 –
I don't have Final Scratch myself but I know 2 guys who have (one has FS 1.0 and the other FS2.0). The guy with FS1.0 is still quite happy. I had a little play with his FS1.0 and I was really impressed by the low latency ... It was like do-somthing-and-instantly-hear-it for me.

The key correction thing is neat. Since "pitch" in acoustics refers to the key, "adjusting pitch while keeping the same key" seems like a paradoxon. I'd say "adjusting tempo without change in pitch/key". Anyhow, I believe we are not as sensitive to tempo changes as to pitch changes. So this key correction thingy comes in quite handy. (It's harder to spot for a listener a DJ adjusting the tempo with key correction than without.)

That's all I can say about it.
Sebi

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #2 –
I tested both for about 1 year.  Neither have an advantage.

The problem with this method is you have the disadvantage of two medium.  1 you need a PC.  2 you need turntables.

Get a nice solution like Ableton Live (can't recommend this enough) and it'll open a whole world of possibilities to you.

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #3 –
Quote from: SebastianG on
I don't have Final Scratch myself but I know 2 guys who have (one has FS 1.0 and the other FS2.0). The guy with FS1.0 is still quite happy. I had a little play with his FS1.0 and I was really impressed by the low latency ... It was like do-somthing-and-instantly-hear-it for me.

The key correction thing is neat. Since "pitch" in acoustics refers to the key, "adjusting pitch while keeping the same key" seems like a paradoxon. I'd say "adjusting tempo without change in pitch/key". Anyhow, I believe we are not as sensitive to tempo changes as to pitch changes. So this key correction thingy comes in quite handy. (It's harder to spot for a listener a DJ adjusting the tempo with key correction than without.)

That's all I can say about it.
Sebi



Just to follow up, you are correct description of pitch in this instance is tempo.  However on the technics 1200+ turntable which was the gold standard for DJ's for about 20+ years the fader that would allow you to increase/decrease the speed of the platter of the TT was labeled pitch.  When this "pitch" fader was moved it wold change the tempo of the beats on the record and also change the pitch of the record (they were one in the same).  Now with the intoduction of new technology (past 5 yrs.) you can lock the key of the music using external software or hardware, when this is done the movement of the so called "pitch" fader truly becomes a tempo adjusting fader.

Quote from: Funkstar De Luxe on
I tested both for about 1 year.  Neither have an advantage.

The problem with this method is you have the disadvantage of two medium.  1 you need a PC.  2 you need turntables.

Get a nice solution like Ableton Live (can't recommend this enough) and it'll open a whole world of possibilities to you.


Currently not familiar with Ableton Live (I will check it out), I'm sure it has all kinds of effects, features, etc...

However, if it doesn't let you use Vinyl as a controller, then you might as well be using I-Tunes.

USING TURNTABLES IS NEVER A DISADVANTAGE!!!

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Funkstar De Luxe on
Quote from: brownkid on

USING TURNTABLES IS NEVER A DISADVANTAGE!!!


Then go out and buy your vinyl.


Honestly you should educate yourself about products before you trash them!!

http://www.stantondj.com/v2/fs/prod_fs2.asp  (Final Scratch)
http://www.serato.com/products/scratchlive/setup/  (Serato)

When using Final Scratch & Serato you never have to buy vinyl again, but get all the control of vinyl.

You can control any digital audio file, CD, etc.. on the computer, even remixes that you do on the fly by using the timecoded vinyl records that come with either of these products.

If you can't see the advantage of using a produt like this over solo laptop DJ'ing then well.... I'm Sorry!!

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #6 –
I've Djed twice a week for 2 years now.  I regularly have to use one of the above set-ups.  It's a dumb set-up.  You have a powerful PC running and you have turntables.  Neither of which are being used to their fullest extent with either of these products.

You PC an position and edit, effect and generally manipulate your audio perfectly.  It can positing thing so you never need to worry about beep matching.  Stanton/Serato don't do this.  Worse still, is Suseptable to skipping, jumping, needle breaks - just like vinyl.  You also loose the warm sound of vinyl.  You are taking on the disadvantaged of both formats.

You're using the latest technology to try and emulate an old way of doing things.  Not a good idea.

If you truly respect the music you are playing you wouldn't be using mp3s, you should be happy to buy your music.

To sum up, I don't recommend any of those products.  Either do it old school and use only vinyl or go full out software.

[ableton mix]

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Funkstar De Luxe on
I've Djed twice a week for 2 years now.  I regularly have to use one of the above set-ups.  It's a dumb set-up.  You have a powerful PC running and you have turntables.  Neither of which are being used to their fullest extent with either of these products.

You PC an position and edit, effect and generally manipulate your audio perfectly.  It can positing thing so you never need to worry about beep matching.  Stanton/Serato don't do this.  Worse still, is Suseptable to skipping, jumping, needle breaks - just like vinyl.  You also loose the warm sound of vinyl.  You are taking on the disadvantaged of both formats.

You're using the latest technology to try and emulate an old way of doing things.  Not a good idea.

If you truly respect the music you are playing you wouldn't be using mp3s, you should be happy to buy your music.

To sum up, I don't recommend any of those products.  Either do it old school and use only vinyl or go full out software.

[ableton mix]


I think this comment sums it up for you  "you never need to worry about beep matching"

Most DJ's don't "worry" about Beatmatching they take pride in the creativity of being able to do it manually..

Please learn your trade.

It's not worth spending time to educate you on all your misinformation "warm sound of vinyl ??"
(Not through club speakers!!!)

I've been spinning vinyl for over 15 yrs., but thanks for the tip on keeping it OLD SCHOOL!!

This post was about Serato Vs. Final Scratch, not for Laptop DJ's to try and gain credibilty.
You should find another post to push your agenda!

Have fun rocking parties with your QWERTY keyboard...  (By the way the "REAL" Funkstar De Luxe uses Serato)

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #8 –
Wow... can't you feel the love tonight? lol

I use foobar2000 to dj when I don't have to beatmix.  So there.  You can make fun of me now. (Except I rock parties with my Dvorak keyboard, heh)

Seriously though, I've used BPM studio for a long time with its controllers when I'm actually trying to keep a dancefloor going.  I'm pretty tired of AlcaTech's refusal to update anything though.  I'm looking into Virtual DJ, and it seems very cool... super easy to beatmix.

I wouldn't say that not using vinyl deprives you of creativity... you can employ your creativity in much different ways, and more easily with solutions like Virtual DJ.  I still haven't bought VDJ because I'm not sure of its stability, especially when mixing video (which it generally does very nicely).

I can certainly understand what Funkstar De Luxe has to say about the disadvantages of both formats.  Especially for mobile DJs (as I often am).  It's a pain in the ass to lug another couple of turntables around compared to a laptop and a mixer (well, you might not even need the mixer if you've got the right kind of soundcard).

I'd love to try FinalScratch and serato and such.  I've very briefly played with Ableton, but never really saw it as a live performance tool, despite the name.

You actually use this for live DJing Funkstar?  I guess I should play.  I got a copy of the "lite" version or something with an M-Audio soundcard that I bought.  I should dig it out and see if I can make it go.

But in any case, I'd like something that supports audio codecs other than MP3 and these days I'm DJing with a lot of Music videos, and also host Karaoke from time to time.  Since Virtual DJ supports this, it wins some big points.

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Supacon on
You actually use this for live DJing Funkstar?  I guess I should play.  I got a copy of the "lite" version or something with an M-Audio soundcard that I bought.  I should dig it out and see if I can make it go.


Yes, it's Ableton's primary purpose.  It's got a great built in manual which will get you going.

brownkid, I gave you my opinion based on experience.  You came here asking for opinions on both programs I use regularly, I'm not sure what more you want from me.  But if you're using your turntables to play anything but vinyl, then I think they are nothing more than a cheesy prop.  I have no respect for any DJ, I don't view it as skilful, creative or interesting in anyway.  And I was Funkstar De Luxe wayyyyyy before Martin Ottosen decided to piss out bullshit 4/4, mind-numbing house.

This was, perhaps, not the best forum to ask a DJ question, HA is geared more towards audio codecs and general recording/editing software.  Try www.djforums.com or www.djchat.com  They will be able to help you out more.  And try not to be so aggressive next time

Quote from: Supacon on
But in any case, I'd like something that supports audio codecs other than MP3...


Forgot to add, Ableton supports .flac, which makes all the difference if you're playing though a large system.  Mp3s tend not to sound so good at such levels (and no, I didn't ABX it :-D)

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #10 –
FLAC is cool, as I have a big collection of them, but I'm of the opinion that for DJing in a noisy club, nobody will be able to hear minute and subtle artefacts in encoding.  I've actually played terrible songs that must've come of Kazaa or something and were like 11 KHz and 20 Kb/s MP3... just sounded like garbage.  Then I'd apologize to the person who requested it that my copy was really bad, and more often than not, they didn't even notice!

Generally, though, I try to get my songs off CDs that I own, and encode them transparently.

But uh... as for the *real* funkstar deluxe using Serato, the *real* BT (Brian Transeau) uses Ableton (and I believe he's got some interesting modifications he uses with it as well).

edit:
It appears that ableton also supports Ogg Vorbis!  Very cool.  It'd be nice if they decide to support AAC in the future as well!

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #11 –
Two other large names, Sasha and Hawtin, have both utilized Ableton extensively (solely, even) in their shows.  I'd still like to try Final Scratch, though, I agree it's a hassle to set up...then again, it might be just what the DJ requires when he's playing a combination of vinyl and digital.

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #12 –
Well Armin Van Buuren really pioneered the use of Ableton in DJing (and producing), and Paul Van Dyk is Stanton's biggest fan (they even advertise his use).

Regarding the question about bitrates for DJing: I have a lot of DJ mates, and they all download or rip at MP3 >256kbits CBR. For some reason they don't like using VBR, and see it as useless, even though I've told them otherwise.

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #13 –
It seems like both of these two systems are picky concerning hard- and software. The complaints about the respective systems seem to average out with a slight advatange for Serato.

If you want to free yourself of vinyl and go the Traktor/Ableton route, you should check out the Allen & Heath Xone 3D. It will leave a hole in your wallet though.

I don't care if a DJ uses teh vinyl or a mouse and laptop as long as he rocks the crowd.

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Supacon on
FLAC is cool, as I have a big collection of them, but I'm of the opinion that for DJing in a noisy club, nobody will be able to hear minute and subtle artefacts in encoding.  I've actually played terrible songs that must've come of Kazaa or something and were like 11 KHz and 20 Kb/s MP3... just sounded like garbage.  Then I'd apologize to the person who requested it that my copy was really bad, and more often than not, they didn't even notice!

Generally, though, I try to get my songs off CDs that I own, and encode them transparently.

But uh... as for the *real* funkstar deluxe using Serato, the *real* BT (Brian Transeau) uses Ableton (and I believe he's got some interesting modifications he uses with it as well).

edit:
It appears that ableton also supports Ogg Vorbis!  Very cool.  It'd be nice if they decide to support AAC in the future as well!


Yeah it does ogg vorbis.  However, to get back to the point you make about using lossy formats in clubs.  I seem to have an entirely different experience from everyone here.  I can ABSOLUTELY tell the difference.  The high freqs. tend to sting my ears and some tracks lack the original attack.

The problem I think, correct me if I am wrong here, is that lossy files are encoded to be played back precisely as they are originally.  So in a DJ environment where there's all kinds of effects, pitch changes, tempos changes, the encoder doesn't hold up so well because it has of course not been programmed to be transparent when a file is played back a -5% pitch (for example).

I guess it depends a lot on the club, the music etc.  I just really don't think it's a good idea to process a lossy file and expect the altered output to be the same as a lossless copy.  I tend to feel it shows a greater respect for the music too, but that's another topic.

Quote from: vinnie97 on
it might be just what the DJ requires when he's playing a combination of vinyl and digital.


Now that is a good point.  Regarldess of plug-ins, I can't play a 12" with Ableton :-D

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #15 –
Quote
I guess it depends a lot on the club, the music etc. I just really don't think it's a good idea to process a lossy file and expect the altered output to be the same as a lossless copy. I tend to feel it shows a greater respect for the music too, but that's another topic.


Well, originally, I used to think this, and I always encoded for absolute transparency.  But since I've been doing more mobile stuff, it's important to try to fit a big collection into a small space, so I have copies at low bitrates.

If you're mobile, I think a good idea would be to have an extra (older) laptop with a big collection of hit songs (like ERG's Nu Music Traxx and KnockOut Hits) in really low bitrate so they all fit on a the internal drive.

If your main system fails, you can use it for a backup, and still have most of the good music, even though you don't have as much space.

But Funkstar, what kind of DJing do you do mostly?

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #16 –
I see what you mean.  I usually know pretty much what I'll play and have around 50GB to play with, so lossless is no prob.

It's mainly an electro thing I do.  Lots of edits, cuts etc.  DJing is desperately not my scene but I'm trying to get a little label off the ground and it the best way to support it.

You can download a mix from me here, if you'd like.
http://www.animarecordings.com/MP3/Anima%2...ings.com%5d.mp3

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #17 –
Oh yeah, I remember talking to you a while back when you argued that there's no way real DJs use anything other than Vinyl, and I was trying to tell you that there was more than one kind of DJ in the entertainment industry
How times have changed!

Anyways, for some reason or another, I saw your site and checked out some of the tunes that you had up there... I was impressed.  I'm interested in doing some producing myself down the road, perhaps, so it's always cool to hook up with people who are into DJing and/or production.

I'll have myself a listen to your new stuff.

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #18 –
I'm not far into the mix yet, but it's very cool... it sounds like you were using real vinyl for it.  Am I right?

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #19 –
[deleted]

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #20 –
Thank you for your insight TrNSZ.

I've been a career DJ (it's been the majority of my income) for about five years.  In the contexts that I've DJed in historically, I would say that song selection, and crowd interaction were more important. (Much of the time, I'm stuck in a booth relatively far from the dance floor where I can't be seen anyways).  I'm pretty sure that the crowd would hardly care less if I used turntables or a computer, and in fact, I was really good at beatmixing with BPM Studio for a while, but I guess my crowd was so unsophisticated that more often than not, I got complaints that I was wrecking the song by mixing it in.

Basically, unless I get a good dancefloor going, I'm happy using foobar 0.9 with continuator, as it keeps the music flowing very nice and consistently.  I play a lot of rock, country, pop, etc, and that stuff doesn't often call for beatmixing anyways.  For me, turntables would have been much more of a hassle than a convenience.

But right now, I am actually shopping on e-bay for some turntables.  Why?
I think that to go to the next level in DJing, I'm going to have to familiarize myself with them more than I have been.  Obviously I can still use Serato and FS, and perhaps even AlcaTech's version, Digiscratch with my turntables, so I can harness my (bought) collection of CDs I have in MP3.  At this point in my career, I'm getting tired of playing the same 80 songs every night, and would like to start spinning music that I actually enjoy listening to myself a bit.  I love most kinds of dance music, especially trance, euro, house, electro, funk, synthpop and whatever.  I just don't get to play that much (or at all) where I've worked historically.  I'd like to establish a style for myself, make something of a name, and get residence at better paying clubs.

So I'm looking forward to it... I guess it's just about time for me to bite the bullet and drop some cash.

For anyone out there expressly familliar with turntables, could I get opinions on the Vestax PDX-2000s?  I might bid on them on e-bay if the price looks good.  I think I can get them cheaper than Technics, and I've heard they have some advantages over Tech 12s, like reduced skipping and better torque...

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #21 –
i have no experience with them personally but if you check on the discogs.com forum in the music tech section you should be able to find a topic by frankie bones  where he explains why stanton t60's are great budget decks (iirc you can get 2 for the price of one technics sl-1200) although they are sold without cart. you may find the discogs forum a better place for this type of topic but i seem to remember a few of the active members there really seem to dislike "digital dj's" so maybe not.

anyway i have to go now as i just took delivery of sickboys ganja bullet/ worst trade central so im gonna get that baby ripped as theres no way i am going to play such a great record every time i want to hear it.

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #22 –
Quote from: TrNSZ on
I still play gigs often, but it's no longer my main job.  I've tried using lots of software (Live, Traktor, etc.), but when I need "features" on stage, I'll use Logic, even in a live environment, and work on a delay.  It's not as hard you as you might think.  The bread and butter of any performance will be (and always has been) the skill using the turntables.  This is your performance.  Your programming skill on a laptop can never replace this aspect, and being a DJ is about being a performer as much as "mixing music". 

I've tried to work without the vinyl (using only software), and it's totally lame.  It's my opinion that there is so much more that you can do easily with vinyl.  You have more raw options available using software, sure, but it will never be the same when the audio hits the speakers.  Adding computers into the mix is only viable as assistance.  The turntables can never be replaced.  Systems like Serato and FinalScratch are, to me, `second best`.


Hey!!  I want to thank you for bringing some much needed focus back to this thread. 
I started it because I was looking to get some honest opinions of FS Vs. Serato (I currently use FS).

It unfortunatly immediatly turned into people discussing the relevance of TT's to DJ'ing, and as you put it the skills on the TT are the Bread & Butter of the DJ's performance, and this can never be replaced. 

Using DJ software in conjunction with TT's is a great way to add additonal aspects to a performance but in no way is it a replacement.

Two ?'s for you:

Why did you prefer FS to Serato?
Why do feel the need to cut vinyl dubplates when you can go right from production to the TT with Serato or FS?

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Supacon on
So I'm looking forward to it... I guess it's just about time for me to bite the bullet and drop some cash.

For anyone out there expressly familliar with turntables, could I get opinions on the Vestax PDX-2000s?  I might bid on them on e-bay if the price looks good.  I think I can get them cheaper than Technics, and I've heard they have some advantages over Tech 12s, like reduced skipping and better torque...


Supacon I commend you on your desire to further your Spinning to the next level. 

You are correct in the case that if you are currently playing to a crowd that does not desire beatmixing, scratching, and desires a wide variety of genres that make beatmixing unappreciated. It does not make sense to lug around 2 TT's to every gig.  This is the undesirable "Wedding DJ" crowd.

When I started and was doing mobile gigs, there were no other options and I would not only bring 2 TT's to every gig but also about 6 crates of Vinyl, including other PA equipment..

To your question:
From about 1979-to the late 1990's there was simply no viable option other than Technics 1200's or 1210's.
Yes they were/are expensive but, there was simply no other TT that had the pitch control precision, the motor quality, and could stand the overall frequent bang-ups at gigs.  However if properly taken care of they would last forever!!

Nowadays though there are many more viable options on the market,
You definitly don't need to buy technics. Vestax, Stanton, Numark, & others make respecable options.
Most important things are: Don't buy Belt Driven TT's, Make sure you buy Direct Drive.
Go to a DJ store, let a platter run on the TT, put some light pressure on the slip mat. Usually the better quality TT's won't slow down as fast as the lower quality ones.

As far as needle skippage, this is less a function of the Turntable and more a function of what types of needles you use, what types of headshell, how much weight is on the tonearem, and how you use it.

A properly setup tonearm with needle should almost never skip, unless someone physically bumps into the TT.

Lately the TT companies have sold decks with straight Tonearems instead of curved (S) shaped.  These are supposidly better for intesive scratching and turntablism. However I've always used S shaped and never had a problem.

Once you get a pair of decks I think you will see that it adds a whole new element of control to your mixing.  Even if you don't bring them to every gig.  It will make you a better DJ when practicing at home and give you the option of DJ'ing to a more critical type of crowd.  I would also highly recommend getting FS or Serato along with your TT's this way you can immediatly start using all the digital music you currently own.

Final Scratch Vs. Serato (DJ's let's hear your preference!

Reply #24 –
[deleted]