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Topic: Difference between OGM and MKV Containers (Read 21779 times) previous topic - next topic
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Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

What is the exact difference between these two containers?

Can anyone tell me the advantage of using either of these!

I usually rip all my DVD's 2 Ogm Format .......

Ogg audio cuz of its compression with subtitles ... SRT n sumtims Chapters

For me its convenient!!!

Never used Matroska...
The virtue of love isnt finding the perfect person, but by loving the imperfect person perfectly.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #1 –
Matroska is clearly more superior than OGM.
Multiple audio and subtitles.
Supports many audio formats, including Vorbis (or OGG as you may call it).
Chapter support too.

And IIRC, OGM is a hack, not a standardized container format.
It's not even endorsed by Xiph.org.

But, as always, CMIIW.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #2 –
Quote
And IIRC, OGM is a hack, not a standardized container format.
It's not even endorsed by Xiph.org.

Now that isn't really true, is it?

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #3 –
A quick visual overview substitutes many half-witted answers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats

Make your choice.

IMHO, MKV and MP4 are the way to go.

MP4 will be the standard with consumer products like stand-alone-players etc and be widely supported by a lot of hardware sooner or later. MKV is laid out to support more features and it's in the public domain so theoretically there are no hard odds against it to be supported outside the PC world, but the story of Ogg Vorbis shows us that generally the formats of the big companies that make it into the consumer hardware (like MP4).

So either way, if you want to be on the safe side and plan on mastering videos for standalone players then neither ogm nor mkv are the best choice. If you're thinking about PC playback only then MKV and MP4 are both fine.

Oh, I'm not sure, but I think only MKV supports VfW. So if you're a VirtualDub user, think about dumping that editor (and all it's horrible spin offs) if you want to go with MP4.

EDIT: BTW, in case you don't know this site, take a look at Doom9.org, they're the A/V experts. You won't find a better community to answer your questions.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #4 –
Quote
Quote
And IIRC, OGM is a hack, not a standardized container format.
It's not even endorsed by Xiph.org.
Now that isn't really true, is it?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

OGM isn't mentioned one single time on that website, so I'm not sure what you want to point out.
I suggest you read this: [a href="http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/2003-October/000188.html]http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/200...ber/000188.html[/url]

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #5 –
Quote
Quote
And IIRC, OGM is a hack, not a standardized container format.
It's not even endorsed by Xiph.org.

Now that isn't really true, is it?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=369521"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's a nice page describing the Ogg container format, but it really doesn't describe OGM. From what I know, a character named Tobias took the Ogg container and hacked it to support non-Xiph codecs. So technically OGM is not Ogg, although they are very similar.

@NeDtHeOnE:
OGM actually has pretty bad overhead. Ogg (and therefore OGM) is really suited for streaming small chunks of data. But the overhead is overkill for storage. Strangely enough, Vorbis in MKV is actually smaller than in Ogg. You miss out on some of the error-resiliance, but this is generally only a problem if you are streaming the files.

I personally like MKV, and I even have all my audio in 1-file-per-album FLAC Matroska. It supports everything you throw at it, and is extremely flexible. However, MP4 is very good as well, and is infinitely more likely to be supported by a standalone than MKV.

MP4 is a bit more restrictive when it comes to which streams it likes. Technically only MPEG codecs and an SRT-like subtitle format (forgot the name) are allowed. There are hacks around this, but it is something to look out for.
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Vroomfondel, H2G2

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #6 –
Quote
Matroska is clearly more superior than OGM.

Supports many audio formats, including Vorbis (or OGG as you may call it).
Chapter support too.


[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=369489"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


O.k. But how can u say its superior than OGM???

newayz i think MKV has SSA support

How do u create SSA SUBTITLES .......

Ne software 2 convert .sub 2 .ssa

and how do u merge dem to MKV

and wich is the best DVD RIP software ??? How abt Gordian Knot?
The virtue of love isnt finding the perfect person, but by loving the imperfect person perfectly.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #7 –
Quote
Quote
Quote
And IIRC, OGM is a hack, not a standardized container format.
It's not even endorsed by Xiph.org.
Now that isn't really true, is it?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

OGM isn't mentioned one single time on that website, so I'm not sure what you want to point out.
I suggest you read this: [a href="http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/2003-October/000188.html]http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/200...ber/000188.html[/url]
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That page still doesn't mention that .ogm is anything but a renamed .ogg, meaning a normal OGG container. At least as far as I can tell from the text.
[a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OGM]This article[/url] seems to suggest it, tho. It also seems that current OGG-tools do decode the "hax0red" OGM format, making just normal OGG. Is this a faulty conclusion?

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #8 –
Quote
O.k. But how can u say its superior than OGM???

newayz i think MKV has SSA support

How do u create SSA SUBTITLES .......

Ne software 2 convert .sub 2 .ssa

and how do u merge dem to MKV

and wich is the best DVD RIP software ??? How abt Gordian Knot?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Why MKV is superior to OGM (off the top of my head):
* smaller overhead (see [a href="http://alexander-noe.de/Video/Documents/containers.pdf]this comparison[/url])
* seekable! (*)
* more subtitle options, including fading text and embedded fonts
* support for variable frame rate video
* all the cool kids are doing it (most anime subbers I noticed who used OGM have since switched to MKV)
* not an unsupported hack! 
* eventual support for DVD features like menus and buttons (I think there are some proof-of-concept files floating around)
* weird advanced features such as sub chapters, playlists, and block additions

On the other hand, OGM is better for the following reasons:
* better error resiliance (usually doesn't matter on a hard drive anyway)

Kind of a lopsided comparison, I think 

(*) You may have noticed that seeking in OGM files... sucks. OGMs don't have a seek table, so seeking involves a sort of guess-and-check method. MKVs tend to have a seek table, which makes seeking much nicer.

Quote
That page still doesn't mention that .ogm is anything but a renamed .ogg, meaning a normal OGG container. At least as far as I can tell from the text.
This article seems to suggest it, tho. It also seems that current OGG-tools do decode the "hax0red" OGM format, making just normal OGG. Is this a faulty conclusion?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There was a small change to the packets in OGM too. See the bottom of [a href="http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~noe/Video-Zeug/AVIMux%20GUI/en_estimate_overhead.html]this page[/url]
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Vroomfondel, H2G2

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #9 –
I agree to whatever OMION says. How do you create an MKV file?

I want to switch to MKV too! Which tool is best to convert a DVD to an MKV file!
The virtue of love isnt finding the perfect person, but by loving the imperfect person perfectly.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #10 –
Quote
I agree to whatever OMION says. How do you create an MKV file?

I want to switch to MKV too! Which tool is best to convert a DVD to an MKV file!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I make MKV files using a great program called MKVmerge (along with its corresponding GUI, called MMG). You can find the Windows version of it at the bottom of [a href="http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/downloads.html]this page[/url]. This program will not help with the ripping from DVD, it just puts all the streams together. For example, I encode my audio with Foobar, my video with x264, and my subtitles with aegisub. Then MKVmerge puts the three together.

If you want a program that can go all the way from a DVD to an MKV, then I don't know. I'm sure they exist, but I don't use them.
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Vroomfondel, H2G2

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #11 –
Quote
:
* support for variable frame rate video
:
* eventual support for DVD features like menus and buttons (I think there are some proof-of-concept files floating around)
:
You may have noticed that seeking in OGM files... sucks. OGMs don't have a seek table, so seeking involves a sort of guess-and-check method. MKVs tend to have a seek table, which makes seeking much nicer.
:


I'd like to say something positive about the Ogg container for a change (NOT OGM, so a bit off-topic): The Ogg specification leaves plenty of room for many nice features. The Xiph.org people seem to like specifying as little as needed. Ogg is just something to encapsulate different logical streams into one physical stream. This is the most abstract container there is IMHO. The truth is, nobody of the Xiph people have yet specified how to store seek tables, menus. Variable frame rates ? Heck, the Ogg container doesn't even "know" what a frame really is. It's handling granule positions and that could be anything. So, variable framerates are possible -- not in with the OGM way of things because OGM = Ogg + VfW/ACM restrictions + Vorbis.

So, Ogg is really a low level container thing and manages only the basics. I think Matroska is more comparable to Ogg+Ogg Skeleton. Ogg Skeleton will cover some more informations about muxed streams, possibly chapters, seek tables and stuff. But this is AFAIK a work-in-progress. Check Xiph's wiki page about Ogg Skeleton. ;-)


Sebi

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #12 –
MATROSKA RULES!!!

It is indeed very advanced and has lots of features!

Thanks,
The virtue of love isnt finding the perfect person, but by loving the imperfect person perfectly.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #13 –
Quote
That page still doesn't mention that .ogm is anything but a renamed .ogg, meaning a normal OGG container. At least as far as I can tell from the text.
This article seems to suggest it, tho. It also seems that current OGG-tools do decode the "hax0red" OGM format, making just normal OGG. Is this a faulty conclusion?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Probably not.
But OGM was, and is probably still, a hacked format derived from Ogg.

I did remember I read [a href="http://www.xiph.org/container/ogm.html]this[/url] back then.
But probably not relevant anymore since, according to Wikipedia, Tobias joined Xiph.

Well, anyway, Matroska is now the most robust container I've ever used.
Plus, it's still being maintained unlike OGM, I think. =)

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #14 –
is there a way to get windows media player to play .mkv video?

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #15 –
Quote
is there a way to get windows media player to play .mkv video?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=369631"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Try installing K-Lite Codec Pack.
The virtue of love isnt finding the perfect person, but by loving the imperfect person perfectly.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #16 –
Quote
Quote
is there a way to get windows media player to play .mkv video?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=369631"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Try instaliing K-Lite Codec Pack.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=369641"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

that did the trick, thanks.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #17 –
Or a Matroska Pack if anything else is too big to download.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #18 –
I also use matroska exclusively with video. This is what I do:

1. Rip the DVD with DVD Decrypter
2. Convert to XviD using autoGK (only audio and video)
3. Rip the subtitles with VobSub
4. Mux the resulting AVI to matroska with MMG

I'm a little lazy with the links, so you'll have to google for the tools.
This process is pretty straightforward and easy and somewhat automated.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #19 –
I found Matroska really amazing!

I have already encoded a DVD to MKV using "mkvmerge"

I have Embedded text and a CD Cover to the Video too...

But how do u view the cover and the text while playing the video?

I am using Zoom Player Professional 5 to play the video...

The seeking is really cool...!

Keep the good work MATROSKA!
The virtue of love isnt finding the perfect person, but by loving the imperfect person perfectly.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #20 –
Matroska is Awesome!

But I've a slight problem with the preview software "Matroska Shell Extension"

Like after converting a MPEG1 format video to MKV ... During Thumbail View, My Explorer Hungs up and terminates automatically. Iy shows some compiling error during Thumbnail view.

Though I've found the solution. A cover is compulsory for me 2 mux with the video!

Help!
The virtue of love isnt finding the perfect person, but by loving the imperfect person perfectly.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #21 –
Quote
Like after converting a MPEG1 format video to MKV ... During Thumbail View, My Explorer Hungs up and terminates automatically. Iy shows some compiling error during Thumbnail view.

I don't think anyone might be able to help you on this one. If it's a bug with "Matroska Shell Extension", you should file a bug report.
And it's not yet clear to me wether you have merged or muxed MPEG1 video into a MKV container or you have converted the video into another format and then muxed it. Because usually, "converting" means re-encoding the file to another format, not putting the data into another container.

Edits: typos

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #22 –
Quote
Quote
Like after converting a MPEG1 format video to MKV ... During Thumbail View, My Explorer Hungs up and terminates automatically. Iy shows some compiling error during Thumbnail view.

And it's not yet clear to me wether you have merged or muxed MPEG1 video into a MKV container or you have converted the video into another format and then muxed it. Because usually, "converting" means re-encoding the file to another format, not putting the data into another container.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370526"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I had converted MPEG1 format video to XviD 2 pass arnd 800 Kbps with Vorbis Audio 96 Kbps Lancer Compiled Aotuv b4.51 to MKV (muxed using mkvmerge)
...... When I got the output MKV Video . There was an error .....

and btw where should i post the bug information?
The virtue of love isnt finding the perfect person, but by loving the imperfect person perfectly.

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #23 –
Quote
...... When I got the output MKV Video . There was an error .....

and btw where should i post the bug information?


Again, I don't think that anybody can help you. You didn't post the error, so nobody has the slightest idea what your problem might be. Have you googled for that error? This should be the first thing to do when encountering one. And concerning the bug report, send it to the author of the program you think is buggy or post it in his/her forum (if there's one). And I suggest you to visit doom9.org for questions about video. Even though HA's got a subforum, I still claim that doom9 has much more knowledge about video. HA still is mainly a forum for audiotechnology* (hence the name).

*This is only my opinion

Difference between OGM and MKV Containers

Reply #24 –
Quote
and btw where should i post the bug information?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


[a href="http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=103757]Here.[/url]