A portable player is not a platform.
It's a portable player damnit...
That would be like calling a horse a vehicle...

First off, I would like to emphasize a point made in my first post - that the freedom of choice is what is important. You shouldn't use .. say Ogg or MPC just because someone tells you to. The choice is first and foremost yours to make - you make the decision to heed their advice or not, but in no way should you EVER have to choose MPC just because someone ORDERED you to.

Perhaps I did not make it clear, but in my original post, I did differentiate between NEED TO and CHOOSE TO. At work, if you have to use Windows or any other Microsoft products, fine, by all means. Your employer is paying you to do your job. You don't really have much say.

But what about those who run Windows at home by CHOICE and then go around bashing it and bemoaning Microsoft? There is plainly no excuse for such behaviour. If you want to make a statement, by all means live by your statement. Microsoft is bad. Windows sucks. But I need Windows to play my favourite games! Well, if what you say is truly what you believe, then the loss of a few games to uphold your belief will not mean much to you. It isn't that there aren't games at all for other OSes ( Lokigames, WineX for Linux ). But to say that Microsoft sucks, yet you still use their OS and products out of choice, that plainly to me is hyprocritical.

Another thing I never truly understand - that Microsoft leverages its monopoly to absolutely squash standards. I do agree that in any area Microsoft chooses to compete in, it tries every method to become the dominant force - even using underhanded means. However, IMHO, alternatives are present and will always remain so. Perhaps not in the corporate environment, where the choice is not yours to make, but in your own personal life. Don't like Windows? Linux, BSD. Don't like IE? Mozilla, Opera. Don't like Office? OpenOffice, Abiword... The choice is yours to make. Packaging something in my default does in no way mean that you have to use it.

In no way did I ever at all say that one should make a comparision without evaluating the products. I don't know how you can read so much into my first post, but simply put, I called hyprocrites those who SAID something and DID another. It is perfectly fine in my book to have run Windows before and then moved on totally from it. In these case, you are no LONGER using Microsoft products, and can feel free to bash them with total belief in your statement.

However, if you have used Microsoft's products, used another product, found it to be better, yet STILL use Microsoft and bash Microsoft for being evil, then that makes you a hyprocrite.

In general, I don't appreciate personal attacks. Note in my post that NO WHERE did I ever bash Linux or anything. Nor was I ever making a comparision between Microsoft and any other company. Instead, I was making a rant against those who simply DID NOT or CHOSE NOT to live up to their beliefs. They are hypocrites. Where does your question that one needs to compare to choose, and that I need to get hands on experience ( which I quite clearly have BTW.. I've worked on Solaris, AIX, Linux, NT and 2K systems at work.. The only stuff I haven't really messed around with are Macs) come into question? I fear that you simply are jumping around without any basis.

Any why would I be a hyprocrite myself? I never bashed Microsoft nor any company/OS/software in my post. On the contrary, if you would look through the entire thread, quite clearly, you were the one doing so.

I don't know what the hell those who replied negatively are getting at, but you seem to think that I'm bashing all the Microsoft-bashers, that I'm a Microsoft lover. Well, I'm not any of the above. I didn't bash Microsoft-bashers, on the contrary, all I said was that those who bash Microsoft should live up to their beliefs in their personal capacity. Otherwise, they are simply plain hyprocrites. That's all. And this is the issue that needs to be addressed.

Oh, and Utada Hikaru, X-Japan, Shonen Knife are Japanese artistes/groups. SES is a Korean group, even though they have had Japanese releases. Quite clearly two different entitities, just so Neo Neko might like to know.

To those who chose not to use WMAv9 for its (poor) quality, by all means, I support your decision. It is just that it shouldn't simply be because people .. hey.. someone told you that you couldn't use it.

Why not try WMA9? "because of the sound quality", well WMA9 now supports LossLess audio, so the sound quality is 100% the same as the original.

"It only runs on Windows" wrong, apart from mp3 it is the most supported format on portable players.

"Microsoft are evil" if you want a really evil company have a look at Apple - even with its pitifull market share it goes around sueing / threatening individuals, or review sites (not companies). I am glad apple are not any bigger...BTW I cannot remember anytime MS have sued an individual for making a toolbar look like the on in Office, Apple would.

The board is guilty of speading false information, which in my opinion is wrong and damaging - imagine someone coming here they read this crap and decide not to touch WMA, despite having a 64MB portable mp3 player that supports it, they would then listen to inferior mp3 encoded at lower bitrates (64Kbps).

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I have to admit Microsoft makes a good operating system....

i think there are many that would admit to no such thing. M$ makes an easy OS, i dunno if that makes it a good OS...

edit: oops, too slow...

2. Personally I don't think OGG beats Wma at 64kbit/s (44100kHz stereo).

There's only trouble with AVI and VBR-sound. Happily the OGG-team  is working on a new container format (I hope)

Some people say: tests shows that wma is inferior to ogg at 64kbit/s...bla bla BLA!

I disagree. Today noone can make a neutral test between the codecs at this bitrate, simply because they all make their own special sound, like wma which makes that famous metallic sound. So it's easy to tell which codec is which. And with all these peolpe hateing microsoft already, they will simply judge it as crap.

1. It's the best thing in avi-movies that you want to take very little space, or the movie is long and you have to free up space for the picture. Ogg sucks in avi because of the vbr.

2. Personally I don't think OGG beats Wma at 64kbit/s (44100kHz stereo).

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I have to admit Microsoft makes a good operating system....

How many OS have you tried? Just out of curiosity.

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I have to admit Microsoft makes a good operating system....

i think there are many that would admit to no such thing. M$ makes an easy OS, i dunno if that makes it a good OS...

LOL    See above.

No, that's not what I'm implying. Some test even shows that wma win over mp3 at 128kbit/s.
You see, dibrom, I'm not against codec tests, I really like them, but since everyone was talking agianst microsoft I had to say something positive, cause things are not black and white.
I just felt like it had to be taken in consideration that they all sound bad at 64kbit/s, and that they all make their special sound. Perhaps that could have an effect on tests. And I was not talking about a particular test.


And I haven't taken the test you're talking about.

[Got some abx tests to prove that?]

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I did an ABX once, but that's several months ago, couse I very seldome use bitrates low as 64 kbit/s.

For the record: I really like OGG, and I hate wma above 64kbit/s.

You still have no idea what hypocracy is. The fact is that Microsoft has a monopoly on most things desktop. You can't go far with your desktop and not be hindered by Microsoft. If someone uses Windows by choice and then tries to bash it just so he can seme 1337 then yes he is a hypocrite. But no one here is in that position. Wanting to run a game and wanting to run Windows are distinct things as well. They are not mutually inclusive. You always have such broad sweeping biased unfounded accusations.

You get MSWord documents from work, friends, or the internet? OpenOffice is a splended program. But due to the fact that the file format is closed and guarded by Microsoft the OpenOffice group had to reverse engineer it. It works for basic documents, but not for all of em. So there are times where you still have to go back to Windows against your will. Should I mention Power Point, Visio, etc? I don't use em but I have to deal with people who do. So I still have to deal with Windows. I try to make the best of it by loading down the OS with my favorite opensource apps, but even they can't stop the OS underneath from truly sucking. Lets put it this way. I have an AMD Anthlon 1600 on my desktop with Windows XP. I use it mostly and almost solely for video compression ATM. I have a PII 400 runing as a linux server and I spend 90% of my time on the computer at home on the PII and not the Anthlon!

Through all your posts you have kept repeating and implying that all of us who have voiced our dislike for Microsoft/Windows are hypocrites because we use Windows. You never said otherwise or spoke to us differently so what I say stands. You are way off base to be calling people hypocrites. If you moved away from Microsoft products and continued to bash them then you would be a hypocrite. Not using Microsoft products gives you no right or clout to bash them. Again knowing about what you speak is supremely important.

Again it all has to do with the context and tone. I was well within my rights to say so. If you wish to avoid this be more specific in the future.

But you did not say that in as many words. Or any words actually. From what you stated all one could infer is that you thought all people who used Windows and Linux etc and bashed Microsoft were hypocrites. That is clearly not the case. Though I am still unsure if that is apparent to you.

I know who they are.  I have K-pop as well as J-pop. They are groups of a similar background, though different language.  Don't hold it against me for trying to strike up a conversation along different lines.

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I disagree. Today noone can make a neutral test between the codecs at this bitrate, simply because they all make their own special sound, like wma which makes that famous metallic sound. So it's easy to tell which codec is which. And with all these peolpe hateing microsoft already, they will simply judge it as crap.

This is conjecture.  Can you actually prove that most of the people who participated in ff123's test knew that they were listening to WMA?

but since everyone was talking agianst microsoft I had to say something positive, cause things are not black and white.

I'll try to keep this reply short since its 3AM here and I need to sleep, and these seems to be turning into a flame-war.

First off, I would like to apologise to anyone who may have been offended by my statements at all. But I would like to still stand by my point - to run a Microsoft product by choice, and then to call Microsoft evil is to be a hypocrite.

And to me, clearly, by professing to hate Microsoft, calling Microsoft evil, then going on to use support them by using their products out of choice proves that you don't uphold your own statements. Hence hypocrisy.

A simple analogy would be that of software piracy.
Is software piracy illegal? Yes
Are the prices for software inflated, unjustifiable? IMHO, yes.
Does that make pirating of software any less illegal? Clearly, no.
Have I ever used pirated software? Yes.
By that extension, have I ever committed a crime? Yes, although I am not proud to admit it.

Reiterating my previous statement, by that vein, calling Microsoft evil, then going on to do something against what you just said is hypocritical. If you do indeed are guilty of such behaviour, then at least be gracious enough to admit it.

I quite clearly have an idea of what hypocrisy is, thank you, Neo Neko. Microsoft has a monopoly on the desktop? I wouldn't really say that, although at present it does.

Its hold is tenacious at best, and Linux and MacOS X are chipping away at it constantly.

You say that wanting to run a game and wanting to run Windows are different things. I agree. But my point is this. Want to run a game that needs Windows, but hate Windows? Fine, by all means, get a game that will run on your OS of choice. A game is an option, it is by no means compulsory nor necessary for your continuation of your life. You have to choose between a game, an optional relaxation, and upholding your beliefs that Windows/Microsoft is evil. Which is more important to you then? If you chose to play games on Windows over your beliefs, then what does that say about you?

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I make a distinction in areas where there is a choice and where there isn't. When you bosses send you something in Office that OpenOffice can't open, you have to use Microsoft Office. No say in the matter. But where you have the choice, you can quite clearly make your own decisions. Recieve a Word doc from your friend that OpenOffice can't handle? Ask him to use the RTF format. From the Internet? Look for text documentation/manuals, if not, Google has this function to view Word documents from its cache.

Kudos to you for using primarily Linux then. But as to video editing, are you sure that there are no viable Linux alternatives? ( I can't help you there as I don't do video editing )

And is the video editing part of your job, or your leisure activity? Does it feed you, or is it just for fun? If it's work, then you don't really have a choice. But if its for your own purposes, again, the question arises. Are you willing to violate your own principles just so to do your video-editing?

If yes, does that not go against what you say? Is that plainly not hypocrisy?

Yes, I do stand by my point. If you use Windows where you plainly have the choice not to, and you bashed Microsoft for being evil, that to me is an hypocritical action. What you refer to as being hypocritical, moving away from Microsoft products then bashing them, is to me not hypocrisy.

I don't really know what you would call it, but it isn't hypocrisy any more. Hypocrisy is saying something and doing the other. To me, if you move totally from Microsoft and Windows, then proceede to call them dumb/evil/crap, you are no longer being hypocritical. You said something, you lived up to that belief. Whether your statements are justified or not is another thing.

Context and tone? I never bashed any product. I did not make claims that "company XXX is bad, it sucks" Therefore I have no such statements to live up to. Wherein lies the hypocrisy?

I may be wrong here, since neither Korean nor Japanese is my native language (heck, even English isn't my native language) but, hmm.. are they of similar background at all? I think not. SES & Hikki tend towards R&B, more pop-ish stuff, while Shonen Knife is rock, and X-Japan is Visual Rock. Quite clearly different stuff, IMHO.

If you do have Korean and Japanese music however, I wouldn't mind exchanging

Outside of pure sound quality issues... why else would you suggest against someone (a person or company) using Microsoft Windows Media Format for encoding their digital audio library?  Thanks in advance.

Why isn't there a WMedia "forum" here?

BTW, I'm a huge supporter of EAC/LAME/APextreme and that's all I currently use.

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I have to admit Microsoft makes a good operating system....

i think there are many that would admit to no such thing. M$ makes an easy OS, i dunno if that makes it a good OS...

LOL    See above.

It's people like you that give Linux a bad name.

The reason is simple

http://thesource.ofallevil.com

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I have to admit Microsoft makes a good operating system....

i think there are many that would admit to no such thing. M$ makes an easy OS, i dunno if that makes it a good OS...

LOL    See above.

It's people like you that give Linux a bad name.

Aaaah the qouting deepens. I guaronte you that I am not. Actually I tend to be quite a bit more moderate than most. Though I do have some clear views and beliefs that for a lack of a better word or reason seem to be unpopular, though not uncalled for. I am glad to see you have given some of the alternatives at least some look. But it only serves to puzle me more about your conclusion.

I think you will find all those issues quite true, honest, and candid. And I think that is also why you did not argue to negate them. Because you knew better. Perhaps they had my spin/bias on them, but that does not negate them. If you think I was pulling your leg look a bit deeper. You will be suprised what you find and that is only the surface.

Oh I agree with most of what you've stated about Microsoft.  It's that I am still using Windows as my primary operating system ATM and of course I wouldn't want to be a hypocrite.

I also felt like you were judging me just because of what I stated, but I think what I said didn't come off the way I meant it.

Maybe I'll go to a Linux convention so Tux can whoop ‰ÛÄss.

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I have to admit Microsoft makes a good operating system....

How many OS have you tried? Just out of curiosity.

I have used DOS, all versions of Windows except for NT, Red Hat Linux, Mandrake Linux, SuSE Linux, and a couple other distros.

Don't get me wrong, I like Linux and it has found a place on my hard drive.  But it has taken a lot of time for me to learn Linux as I grew up using Windows.  Joe Average does not have time to learn an entirely different platform.

On the subject of command lines, Joe Average does not like command lines and that is why the Windows command console is so weak.

Yes, Microsoft basically steals all of their ideas and are completely non-innovative (if that's even a word...) but today is not yesterday, and I think nowadays Microsoft's programmers are a lot more skilled than they used to be, or if they ever were.

If only the Unix programmers were not bickering while Bill Gates stole the show back in the day, we all might be using some form of Unix today.