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Topic: Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9 (Read 18726 times) previous topic - next topic
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Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #50 –
Nevermind, I edited my comment out.

You people might be knowledged in audio, but in common sense you're all f*cking idiots. All this MS bashing starts to piss me off seriously. And usually your main argument against WM9 seems also only to be DRM, which you aren't forced to use anyway. You lil' kiddies get a life, you're as worse as the usual dumbfuck linux kiddies.

That was my last post in this forum. I don't feel discussing with you guys. If you all act stupid in this post, I can expect same stupidity in non-MS threads. Bye.

(If I'm not clear, I don't care. English ain't my main language, nor I felt to spend any effort in good english)

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #51 –
Oh? Then PUKE Tom, just puke, go ahead.
It makes you puke? It's perfectly GOOD reasoning.
OK, puke if you feel like it.

And it definately wasn't supposed to be a joke.

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #52 –
Good to know. You're just retarded then.

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #53 –
OK then...

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #54 –
Quote
Nevermind, I edited my comment out.

You people might be knowledged in audio, but in common sense you're all f*cking idiots. All this MS bashing starts to piss me off seriously. And usually your main argument against WM9 seems also only to be DRM, which you aren't forced to use anyway. You lil' kiddies get a life, you're as worse as the usual dumbfuck linux kiddies.

That was my last post in this forum. I don't feel discussing with you guys. If you all act stupid in this post, I can expect same stupidity in non-MS threads. Bye.

(If I'm not clear, I don't care. English ain't my main language, nor I felt to spend any effort in good english)

We're all fucking idiots. You should listen to him. Don't be bashing MS ANYmore.
Sorry to say this, but i won't be missing this guy one bit...

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #55 –
Mulitiplatform WMA?

Yes, but only on platforms that Microsoft wants to support

How about making a TV that can only receive MSNBC???  Or a car that can be driven only on Microsoft® highway™?

All widely used audiovisual standards are open specifications (PAL, NTSC, SECAM,  HDTV/AC52/AC3,  ISO/MPEG-1/2/4...) - and it would be a silly idea to adapt closed technology as a standard for streaming/broadcasting/...

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #56 –
Quote
Nevermind, I edited my comment out.

You people might be knowledged in audio, but in common sense you're all f*cking idiots. All this MS bashing starts to piss me off seriously. And usually your main argument against WM9 seems also only to be DRM, which you aren't forced to use anyway. You lil' kiddies get a life, you're as worse as the usual dumbfuck linux kiddies.

That was my last post in this forum. I don't feel discussing with you guys. If you all act stupid in this post, I can expect same stupidity in non-MS threads. Bye.

(If I'm not clear, I don't care. English ain't my main language, nor I felt to spend any effort in good english)

Reading through the thread it seems like the biggest argument against WM9 has been the sound quality. Some people have commented on Microsoft's underhanded tactics, some perhaps more maturely than others, but still I'd say all in the scope of a normal discussion. You yourself say that your command of the English language isn't the best, yet you fail to stop to think that you might not be interpreting something as the author intended. You then proceed to call everyone names and leave in a sulk.

I don't know about you, but to me this isn't exactly a startling show of your superiour maturity. Especially after you've in essence called everyone on the board stupid. Oh well... Off you go then, if it'll make you feel better

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #57 –
Quote
Nevermind, I edited my comment out.

You people might be knowledged in audio, but in common sense you're all f*cking idiots. All this MS bashing starts to piss me off seriously. And usually your main argument against WM9 seems also only to be DRM, which you aren't forced to use anyway. You lil' kiddies get a life, you're as worse as the usual dumbfuck linux kiddies.

That was my last post in this forum. I don't feel discussing with you guys. If you all act stupid in this post, I can expect same stupidity in non-MS threads. Bye.

(If I'm not clear, I don't care. English ain't my main language, nor I felt to spend any effort in good english)

You know.... it's kind of odd Tom, because I could have sworn that this graceful post from you has the least common sense of all in this thread.  Maybe it's just me though... 

Seriously though, you don't represent the WMA crowd very well if you have no clear arguments as to why WMA is good, why we should use it, or even why we should have a forum for it.  If the best you can come up with is childish name calling and a threat that you're leaving to go and pout somewhere else simply because you don't like what people have been saying so far, well.. it doesn't bode very well for the merits of WMA I'd say.

You call us all little kiddies, but I'd say that this little outburst of yours is more childish than anything else in this thread so far.  Maybe at some point you'll realize that sometimes people disagree with you, and that they actually have good reason.  That doesn't make them a "fucking idiot" or anything else you'd like them to be.  Instead that makes them someone who actually has something useful to say instead of simply trolling along, throwing the flames everywhere, and comdemning everyone because they just can't handle the discussion.  Grow up man.

And you're more then welcome to stay here if you like, but if that's what you choose that you'd like to do, you might want to reconsider your approach...

Now, maybe we can continue this discussion with a little less nonsense, and a little more useful discussion?

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #58 –
Getting back to WMA, here's something for all of you to ponder: Many people have been making the point that wma's cross-platform woes and DRM restrictions make the format useless (for me, it's purely a poor sound-quality issue). If wma were a terrific format, capable of truly good quality at 64kbps, etc., would you use it, in spite of all the above? So in other words, would having "the best" sound quality allow you to overlook a codec's other shortcomings?

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #59 –
No.

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #60 –
Quote
Getting back to WMA, here's something for all of you to ponder: Many people have been making the point that wma's cross-platform woes and DRM restrictions make the format useless (for me, it's purely a poor sound-quality issue). If wma were a terrific format, capable of truly good quality at 64kbps, etc., would you use it, in spite of all the above? So in other words, would having "the best" sound quality allow you to overlook a codec's other shortcomings?

Would you choose a car based on one thing alone?

PS. I bash MS alot, and I don't use their products especially that MS LookOut

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #61 –
(If this has been repeated, sorry)

History has shown that Microsoft will offer "free" products when it's purpose to use it to leverage out competition, which in this case happens to be Real originally, and now Real AND the OpenSource community.  If Bill and his cronies would have their way, OpenSource would be illegal, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where all this copy protection schemes are going:  If an OS cannot comply with the mandatory Copyright Protection routines imposed by law, then that OS will not be allowed to be distributed until it complies.  This would be a nice way to stop Linux distributions, OpenSource audio development, etc.  Once that was done, Microsoft could then sponser the sale of compressed audio over the web with their secure audio format, whose pricing would be less than CD purchases, and would require the use of their player.  Also, they would collect licensing fees for WMA content when it would be established, no longer offering it for free.

This is not Microsoft bashing, but Standard Operating Procedure in Redmond.

For myself, I am just glad that this kind of stuff will not be tolerated and OpenSource will continue to thrive.

The only thing keeping me on Windows is my gameplay, and I am seriously considering either a dualboot 9x / Linux setup, or trying a good emulator with DirectX support like Win4Lin.  I already gave up MS Office for OpenOffice, and I would need to find replacements for my Adobe graphic programs (PhotoShop,  InDesign, and GoLive)
In Case Of Bose, Break Glass
Flac yuo in teh ASIO!

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #62 –
Very well said Chastity..

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #63 –
Amen, Chastity!

There was a time when Lotus 1-2-3 was THE spreadsheet.
There was a time when dBase IV was THE database.
There was a time when Wordperfect was THE word processor.
There was a time when Netscape was THE browser.
There was a time when RealAudio was THE streaming format.
There was a time when ...........

If I had more time, I'd start making comparisons to Alexander the Great.

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #64 –
Quote
Seriously though, you don't represent the WMA crowd very well if you have no clear arguments as to why WMA is good, why we should use it, or even why we should have a forum for it.  If the best you can come up with is childish name calling and a threat that you're leaving to go and pout somewhere else simply because you don't like what people have been saying so far, well.. it doesn't bode very well for the merits of WMA I'd say.

I totaly agree on that. I know I can rub people the wrong way sometimes. But I don't like making baseless claims. I always try to provide proof with my puddin' when I can. I would love for once to have someone provide me with some pro-Microsoft arguments that give me reason to pause and reflect. One argument I heard along time ago which does not justify Microsoft but gave me reason to think was that without a nemisis as bad as Microsoft Opensource projects would not be as good as they are. Ultimatly that is still an argument for Opensource. But it is much more thought provoking than a simple statement calling people idiots because of their position. Tell us why we are wrong and chances are we will listen if you truly have anything to say.

Tom as the self apointed defender of Microsoft here the burden of proof is against you among other things. Microsoft has no desire or need for your services. They gave up really trying to justify themselves and hide their actions long ago. Do you believe that those of us who dislike Microsoft are a majority of any group on the planet besides those that hate Microsoft? I can be assured that almost any room I walk into I will be the minority with many people of similar views to yourself opposed to me. But even though I am always outnumberd I am well armed and can't honestly claim a loss.

Tom if you have the artillery bring it on. I would love to hear from someone with a well formed opposing argument. Instead of people who have really given it no thought. If you can muster something more than an insult give me a list of all the good things Microsoft has done and why I should serve them. This is not an insult or even really a taunt. I am genuinly interested if you have something to say.

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #65 –
OT: so there's lots of peoples that uses openoffice here, huh? that makes sense, even though their support is not quite complete (for instance, it couldn't handle some templates i had to use for a proposal), since people here seem to be pretty gung-ho on all that free software stuffs. but then i gots ta thunkin, why doesn't anyone here typeset their documents? so, uh, why is it?

btw, i really hated netscape. it was about as stable as my psyche. and i never liked real. ever. or quicktime. but then again, i never really was into that whole streaming thing anyway.

one more thing: i don't really see microsoft as being an "evil" corporation in and of itself. it's called "evil" essentially because it's business practices are successful. sure, it's lowdown, dirty, and underhanded, but that's what it takes, no? bill is a BUSINESSMAN, and microsoft is a BUSINESS. it doesn't make what he does right, but come on people! if it wasn't him it would have been someone else. it's just the way capitalism works. (hmm... i'm no economist, so if i've got it wrong, please correct me).

i just noticed that this post doesn't have thoughts that flow at all... oh well.

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #66 –
Quote
one more thing: i don't really see microsoft as being an "evil" corporation in and of itself. it's called "evil" essentially because it's business practices are successful. sure, it's lowdown, dirty, and underhanded, but that's what it takes, no? bill is a BUSINESSMAN, and microsoft is a BUSINESS. it doesn't make what he does right, but come on people! if it wasn't him it would have been someone else. it's just the way capitalism works. (hmm... i'm no economist, so if i've got it wrong, please correct me).

i just noticed that this post doesn't have thoughts that flow at all... oh well.

Just to bring you upto speed on the MS issue!, MS have been found to have a monopoly and have also been found to of _abused_ that monpoly, that is strangely enough classed as  illegal. I'm not sure I would class that as successful though. I gather from your post that Enron and Worldcom were also good examples of the BUSINESSES that shouldn't be questioned.

On related news: WMA sucks at ~64kbps-too metallic for me, can't say I've heard WMA above that. The DRM is just too much a thorny issue and MS have had technical problems moving from one version to another many times before.  You don't want to have the same sort of reading problems that they've had in doc/xls files.

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #67 –
Quote
but then i gots ta thunkin, why doesn't anyone here typeset their documents? so, uh, why is it?

You mean as in cusome kearning and tracking. Or would that be choosing pretty fonts that are hard to read?

And on MS being evil. Sucess does not equate to evilness. Sure they are sucessful. But that is not what makes them bad or evil. It is what they do with that sucess. Such as beating down anyone and everyone who stands against them that they can.

In a purely capitalist society there would be no regulation of business. Business would regulate itself. That model relies on some sort of benevolence on the part of business and those in charge. But human greed will not allow that to exist. Sad but true. So for those businesses that can not abide the the benefit of society, benevolence has to be forced upon them. Ie regulation. Corporate breakups. You know the stuff. But when it comes to what is right or needed and having the balls to do it. Well our lawmakers here are one ball short of a ping pong match. That or Microsoft is secretly playing pocket pool with them lining their pockets with downy soft cold hard cash.

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #68 –
Quote
Quote
one more thing: i don't really see microsoft as being an "evil" corporation in and of itself. it's called "evil" essentially because it's business practices are successful. sure, it's lowdown, dirty, and underhanded, but that's what it takes, no? bill is a BUSINESSMAN, and microsoft is a BUSINESS. it doesn't make what he does right, but come on people! if it wasn't him it would have been someone else. it's just the way capitalism works. (hmm... i'm no economist, so if i've got it wrong, please correct me).

i just noticed that this post doesn't have thoughts that flow at all... oh well.

Just to bring you upto speed on the MS issue!, MS have been found to have a monopoly and have also been found to of _abused_ that monpoly, that is strangely enough classed as  illegal. I'm not sure I would class that as successful though. I gather from your post that Enron and Worldcom were also good examples of the BUSINESSES that shouldn't be questioned.

On related news: WMA sucks at ~64kbps-too metallic for me, can't say I've heard WMA above that. The DRM is just too much a thorny issue and MS have had technical problems moving from one version to another many times before.  You don't want to have the same sort of reading problems that they've had in doc/xls files.

that's what capitalism is. and they seemed pretty successful to me until they botched it up. success in business is measured in profits. the longer you can do it and get away with it the better off you are. notice, i never said that it was a good thing. i never said i was happy with m$ or enron or whatever. i'm just saying that that is just the way capitalism works. you can't have a capitalist economy and not expect there to be a company like m$. and where the f*ck did i say that m$ shouldn't be questioned? where did i say that m$ and enron are the greatest models of morality? did you read my damn post? i don't like what they do! i don't like windows, i refuse to use office and ie unless i have no other recourse. what i'm saying is that you cannot decide to have a market economy and then not expect moneygrubbing people to become heads of the most profitable companies. to call them "evil" is childish and useless. you don't like what m$ does? do something about it. don't go bitching about their business practices in an audio forum.

yes, i understand enough economics to know that the purpose of government intervention (in the economy and, at least, in the US) is to fix capitalism when it breaks. yes, i realize that monopoly == broken capitalism. what i'm saying is that if you set up a society in which money is as important as it is here it should seem only too natural for this sort of thing to happen. if you're going to encourage people to make and abuse monopolies, then you shouldn't get all huffy when it happens (this being a somewhat liberal use of the word "you").

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #69 –
Quote
Quote
but then i gots ta thunkin, why doesn't anyone here typeset their documents? so, uh, why is it?

You mean as in cusome kearning and tracking. Or would that be choosing pretty fonts that are hard to read?

And on MS being evil. Sucess does not equate to evilness. Sure they are sucessful. But that is not what makes them bad or evil. It is what they do with that sucess. Such as beating down anyone and everyone who stands against them that they can.

In a purely capitalist society there would be no regulation of business. Business would regulate itself. That model relies on some sort of benevolence on the part of business and those in charge. But human greed will not allow that to exist. Sad but true. So for those businesses that can not abide the the benefit of society, benevolence has to be forced upon them. Ie regulation. Corporate breakups. You know the stuff. But when it comes to what is right or needed and having the balls to do it. Well our lawmakers here are one ball short of a ping pong match. That or Microsoft is secretly playing pocket pool with them lining their pockets with downy soft cold hard cash.

typesetting as in LaTeX, or some other typesetting system (i suppose you could use HTML, if you really wanted to...)

i was sorta presupposing that people were greedy and moneygrubbing... ok, so i apparently phrased it wrong. i'm always making the mistake of being a little more cryptic than i should.

i guess what i'm saying is that i don't think it's meaningful to call something that's inevitable "evil". it's like being upset at the mold for growing on an orange left outside for a few hot days. if you were gonna get upset over it, you should have done something about it earlier. that's no reason to not throw it away, however...

edit: oh yeah, that last part of your post, that's what i'm talking about. as voters, we have to educate ourselves. we are the only ones responsible for the state of the ... um. state. if people don't want to take the time to educate themselves before voting, then.. well, it's probably better that they didn't vote at all. i guess this only applies with varying degrees to countries that aren't the US...

edit2: what the hell is "cusome kearning and tracking"? google couldn't find anything...

edit3: i realized something, and henceforth i will refuse to respond to semantic spats anymore. it's a waste of everyone's time.

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #70 –
Quote
typesetting as in LaTeX, or some other typesetting system (i suppose you could use HTML, if you really wanted to...)


LOL. And where do you think Windows users would have ever run into Latex. Or any other typesetting program for that matter. Mac'ers and *NIX'ers are about the only people who use such programs outside of a business environment. Everyone else just putts around making 1337 MS Word documents. On that note I was pleasantly supprised to find under Mandrake9 that the Adobe Acrobat distiller was installed by default as a printer choice and it works great! But outside the professional publishing business typesetting is a hidden art.

Quote
i guess what i'm saying is that i don't think it's meaningful to call something that's inevitable "evil". it's like being upset at the mold for growing on an orange left outside for a few hot days. if you were gonna get upset over it, you should have done something about it earlier. that's no reason to not throw it away, however...


Monopoly is not inevitable. Monopoly is an imballance in the system that according to pure capitalism is not supposed to exist. But it does. The creators of capitalism thought much to well of the average man to not see the massive hole in their philosiphy.

As for jumping on the wagon to late. Well when I jumped on we did not even have a wagon at that point. But it was starting to get crowded on the horses back. Say somewhere pre 1995 post 1990 I turned away from Microsoft. Actually though before that I was a MS whore and was even on occasion known to behave in the manner Tom Servo was recently seen to. But as you see people can be refformed.

Quote
edit2: what the hell is "cusome kearning and tracking"? google couldn't find anything...


It was supposed to be custom kearning and tracking. I had a brain fart through my fingers. Kearning being the space between characters and tracking the space between lines(no folks not doublespace). You do know the difference between serif and san-serif typefaces and the fact that monospace typesets are God's gift to minimum page length term papers right?

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #71 –
I'd actually be surprised if monopoly wasn't a stable equilibrium outcome of 'pure' capitalism - needless competition can be very wasteful of resources. It's a similar argument to that which demonstrates that a benevolent dictatorship is the 'best' form of government - except that is unstable, as it tends to turn into a non-benevolent dictatorship ... <wave magic hands> ... then monarchy.

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #72 –
Monopoly is not inevitable. Monopoly is an imballance in the system that according to pure capitalism is not supposed to exist. But it does. The creators of capitalism thought much to well of the average man to not see the massive hole in their philosiphy.

If you have an unregulated marketplace, and a commodity which benefits from economies of scale, monopolies are inevitable.  It is in each entity's interest to remove competition, thus giving itself free reign to increase marginal profit.

After all, capitalism can be summarised as "maximise your own profit" - in the absence of external restraints, people will achieve this by removing competition.  There's nothing necessarily wrong with that either.  I.e. if two people are selling lemonade next to each other, they can either both engage in price-cutting to win sales while reducing profits, or just have one pay the other $10 to go away and leave them alone to gouge the customers.

It became apparent that it was in the public's interest to actually encourage competition instead of monopolisation, which is why we live in a regulated world.

-h

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #73 –
Quote
I'd actually be surprised if monopoly wasn't a stable equilibrium outcome of 'pure' capitalism - needless competition can be very wasteful of resources. It's a similar argument to that which demonstrates that a benevolent dictatorship is the 'best' form of government - except that is unstable, as it tends to turn into a non-benevolent dictatorship ... <wave magic hands> ... then monarchy.

Under capitalism the market is to decide the fair price for a product and service. Plain, simple, short, sweet. The market being made of both the consumers and the manufacturers/providers. The state of monopoly negates the market setting the price. It is an un-natural imballance in capitalism to the extreme. Under a monopoly the manufacturer alone sets the price. This is contrary to how pure capitalism is supposed to be IIRC.

Pure capitalism in theory is all sunshine and daisies. But in reality pure capitalism is just as feesable as pure socialism. Due to human nature both models tend to tear themselves apart.

Arguments Against Using Windows Media 9

Reply #74 –
Quote
LOL. And where do you think Windows users would have ever run into Latex. Or any other typesetting program for that matter. Mac'ers and *NIX'ers are about the only people who

Hehe, I use w2k and wouldn't dream of using anything but LaTeX for my word processing needs . MikTeX (LaTeX2e distribution) works perfectly in Windows, especially when used with xemacs or JEdit (multiplatform text editors).

Actually my typesetting rule goes as follows:

1 page with absolutely no structuring: MS Word
> 1 pages or 1 page with structuring: LaTeX

Although I'm a CompSci student and LaTeX is the typesetting program of choice all around my university and I've taken quite a few courses on structured document standards. That might have affected my decision a bit .