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Topic: Black CD-Rs (Read 10870 times) previous topic - next topic
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Black CD-Rs

I'll probably get flamed for posting as I know it must exist somewhere this but I did attempt to do a search for info and came up empty.

Are black CD-Rs any better than regular CD-Rs? If yes, why? If no, why do they cost slightly more - marketing?

Black CD-Rs

Reply #1 –
Quote
I'll probably get flamed for posting as I know it must exist somewhere this but I did attempt to do a search for info and came up empty.

Are black CD-Rs any better than regular CD-Rs? If yes, why? If no, why do they cost slightly more - marketing?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312972"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't know technical details, although I'm curious too.  I've always liked the black discs more.  It could just be placebo, but they seem more durable to me.

Black CD-Rs

Reply #2 –
A 'black' CDR (in fact, these discs are made of dark violet polycarbonate and feature a standard phtaloycyanine dye) is believed to show a higher resistance against UV radiation. But in fact, UV resistance is a consequence of the dye itself (phtalocyanine is resistant against UV radiation) ... not of the plastic sourrounding the disc.

If your CDR shows manufacturing flaws (like high asymmetry, dye impurities or a bad reflector), black plastic won't turn this CDR into a reliable medium.
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

Black CD-Rs

Reply #3 –
remember... the laser doesn't "see" the black.
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

Black CD-Rs

Reply #4 –
To simplify a little, what JeanLuc is saying is in practice Black CD-Rs are more UV resistant but the colour itself isn't inherently any more reliable.

Black CD-Rs

Reply #7 –
They look good when you give them out to people (As a mix cd, for example)

Black CD-Rs

Reply #8 –
Quote
Check out this very interesting document

In Quest of Absolute Fidelity: The Saga of the Black CD (v2.0 - March 2003)

by Gary Leonard Koh, the Genesis Managing Director.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312994"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

He shot himself in the foot saying the copies were bit for bit identical. If he hadn't said that, he could have claimed that the black CD had a lower BER and therefore sounded better. A CD is digital, unless there are errors in the output if it's bit for bit identical it will sound exactly the same. It's like saying my notepad.exe is better quality than yours even though they are bit for bit identical.

That said, I don't think he's lying, the black probably does sound better to him. Try a blind test however and I'll think you'll find the results speak for themselves.

Black CD-Rs

Reply #9 –
Apart from anything else, I would like to point out how hard it is to tell if a black CD has been already burnt without trying to read it in a ROM drive.  Been there, not going back.

Black CD-Rs

Reply #10 –
That article is full of wrong statements. It says that the slight inaccuracies in reading speed are not compensated by the internal buffer (they are), that black CDs have a superior reflectivity and absorbsion ability (that's the opposite), that Playstations use Black CD because they have a weak laser and must read faster than audio players (it was in order to distinguish genuine CDs from pirate ones)...
And on top of all, it claims that all brand of CDR sound different, without providing any proof.

The problem with black CDR is that the additionnal UV protection can't compensate for a poor media. I tried Memorex and Hi-Space black CDRs with a Yamaha 6416S burner.
The Memorex couldn't be burned properly. There were C2 errors in every backup. The Hi-Space could be burned OK, but they became unusable much faster than the other brands I use (including Hi-Space Gold).

Black CD-Rs

Reply #11 –
I've had one black CD-R go bad on me within two years. The last track could not be extracted even in Burst Mode.
The problem with black CD-Rs is that they are produced by manufacturers not known for quality. I never heard of Verbatim, Taiyo Yuden or RiTEK do them, at least.

[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']<edit: the CD-R in question was a Prodisc>[/span]

Black CD-Rs

Reply #12 –
I've been using Verbatim CD-r's that look like little 45 records because they have a small label on top and ridges.  It appears black in color with a purplish color in the inner clear ring (clear from top to bottom sides).  I bought them because they were the cheapest 50 disk stack.
<<optimali>>

Black CD-Rs

Reply #13 –
Quote
I've been using Verbatim CD-r's that look like little 45 records because they have a small label on top and ridges.  It appears black in color with a purplish color in the inner clear ring (clear from top to bottom sides).  I bought them because they were the cheapest 50 disk stack.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=313277"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What does the ATIP say? Is it genuine Mitsubishi or something else?
Proverb for Paranoids: "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers."
-T. Pynchon (Gravity's Rainbow)

Black CD-Rs

Reply #14 –
Quote
I've been using Verbatim CD-r's that look like little 45 records because they have a small label on top and ridges.  It appears black in color with a purplish color in the inner clear ring (clear from top to bottom sides).  I bought them because they were the cheapest 50 disk stack.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=313277"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


MPO (France) sells these CD-R's that have a 'vinyl' look ... I guess it's their ATIP ;-)
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

Black CD-Rs

Reply #15 –
MPO are the Hi-Space ones that I talk about. MPO (Moulages Plastiques de l'Ouest) is the manufacturer. Hi-Space is the CDR subdivision of MPO, that also press CDs and vinyls.
They manufacture most of their CDRs, but in an interview, someone from MPO said that sometimes, they bought some CDRs from other manufacturers in order to supply their clients.

Black CD-Rs

Reply #16 –
I always achieved good results with Hi-Space Gold media (and these are still readable after >2 years ... the results were very similar to Misui Gold Ultra II 24x (which is still to be beaten in terms of BLER)
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

Black CD-Rs

Reply #17 –
I hope Larry Koh knows more about business than he does about CD's or he will be broke really quickly. 
Nov schmoz kapop.

Black CD-Rs

Reply #18 –
Quote
I'll probably get flamed for posting as I know it must exist somewhere this but I did attempt to do a search for info and came up empty.

Are black CD-Rs any better than regular CD-Rs? If yes, why? If no, why do they cost slightly more - marketing?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312972"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


A while ago I"ve heard that some of the Marantz SACD/CD players had some problems with CD-Rs, so I've e-mailed to Marantz USA and got a response from their VP, with something like this:
"Some of our players had problems with black CD-Rs, other than that all players should be compatible with any brand of  CD-Rs."

Black CD-Rs

Reply #19 –
Quote
I've been using Verbatim CD-r's that look like little 45 records because they have a small label on top and ridges.  It appears black in color with a purplish color in the inner clear ring (clear from top to bottom sides).  I bought them because they were the cheapest 50 disk stack.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=313277"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I've always been under the impression that these are Taiyo Yuden discs.
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

Black CD-Rs

Reply #20 –
Verbatim Digital Vinyl CD-Rs are Verbatim's own media. The MID is 97:34:21. The recording side is dark blue, not black. Digital Vinyls are reported to have the same dye as the older Metal AZO CD-Rs, and like those they max out at 16X.

Black CD-Rs

Reply #22 –
I can tell you one Black CD-R you might want to stay away from and that is marketed
under the Memorex brand 'CD-R Black All Use'.

ATIP shows unknown. You would think the laser wouldn't have a problem shining through but the reflective layer
must be pretty dull because have had several burners that refused to write to them as well as several drives
refuse to read perfectly written ones.

Besides that I havent noticed any quality issues as of yet but its a real pain when you
burn a disc for a buddy or what not and they can't read the darn thing.

Note: Drives most susceptible seemed to have been DVD & Combo drives. Also it may have been resolved w/firmware updates
but never bothered to go back to all the drives & check as it was much easier to just purchase Better CD-R's.

Besides IMHO I don't believe Memorex is known to use quality disc vendors

Black CD-Rs

Reply #23 –
Black CDR media have lower contrast ratio, so you'll have a problem on some weaker CD readers.  Use Nero CD-DVD Speed to get an idea of the quality of your burns.  You'll probably find quite quickly that black CDr suck. 
Get something good instead, like phthalo media by TY or Ritek.

Black CD-Rs

Reply #24 –
Quote
phthalo media by TY or Ritek.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=313808"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


TY doesn't produce phtalo media as I know
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