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  • caveman
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Scratched CDs and EAC
I have read on  forums of people who manage to rip badly scratched CD's with EAC but complain of time taken. My question is I would be happy to wait a long time if I could configure EAC to do it, but my configuration allows error correction to run through the five bars of lights before it just aborts the track as read errors.
I have access to many poor condition CD's how do I configure EAC to continuewith the rip without aborting after the run through the five bars- hope this makes sense.

  • Otto42
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Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #1
If it's making it all the way through the 5 bars, the CD may simply be unrippable. Not everything is possible, you know.

  • JeanLuc
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Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #2
Under EAC options (on the extraction pad), disable the checkbox that says something about "skip extraction on read or sync errors" ... ;-)
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

  • Pio2001
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #3
Actually, EAC is not especially good at scratched CDs. It is good at seing that they are scratched, what classic rippers can't do, not really at ripping them. When the five bars light up, it means that it's not going to perform a good job.
Try first to repair the scratches with brasso, or SkipDoctor (see the FAQ).

  • Digisurfer
  • [*][*][*][*]
Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #4
Quote
Try first to repair the scratches with brasso, or SkipDoctor (see the FAQ).

Never tried SkipDoctor, any good? I have found that Brasso works fairly well.  Scratches that follow the circumference of the CD usually don't have much hope though. Had one like that recently (short TV tunes, so about 20 tracks were bad). I'd rub it down with Brasso, and maybe extract a random damaged track succesfully. Repeat, maybe get another one. Eventually got all but two over a couple days work. It's a good idea to try ripping after every Brasso application since you could always make the problem worse too. I've also found that occasionally ripping at full speed in Audiograbber can sometimes get a track with minimal popping noise, which can then possibly be fixed (found DeGlitch the other day, good free program). Working on my entire collection over the past few weeks has taught me a great deal about ripping with EAC and scratched CD's, that's for sure.

  • Andavari
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #5
Quote
When the five bars light up, it means that it's not going to perform a good job.
Try first to repair the scratches with brasso, or SkipDoctor (see the FAQ).
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235030"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There's CDex using 'Paranoia, Full' as another resort. Of course if the drive caches audio CDex may not help much.
Complexity of incoherent design.

  • caveman
  • [*][*]
Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #6
I ripped one of the lads Incubus albums today (I'm 53) and noticed that the last 2 tracks ripped with 15 errors each going through the 5 bars and continuiing to the next bad sector and then through the 5 bars again.
Now as I said each track ripped with about 10 - 15 errors in the log. The thing is when I played them back they seemed to play OK. That is with my dodgy ears, is it possible to rip, show that many errors and still sound OK. Or is it subjective and depending on listeners ears.

Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #7
yes it is possible.  I had loaned a friend Ozzy Osbourne's Live and Loud.  Turns out that the cd somehow got under the vinyl flooring in his truck.  Needless to say, it became quite scratched by the sand, dirt and general foot pressure there. 

Anyways, tried ripping in an LG 8120b.  This was a no go.  But... My Hitatchi hd8500 DVDrom was able to extract it.  It took more than 9 hours and the log was full of errors, but it still came out sounding perfect.
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

  • Otto42
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Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #8
Never heard of using Brasso, but a friend of mine swears by TurtleWax for CD repair.

Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #9
Quote
I ripped one of the lads Incubus albums today (I'm 53) and noticed that the last 2 tracks ripped with 15 errors each going through the 5 bars and continuiing to the next bad sector and then through the 5 bars again.
Now as I said each track ripped with about 10 - 15 errors in the log. The thing is when I played them back they seemed to play OK. That is with my dodgy ears, is it possible to rip, show that many errors and still sound OK. Or is it subjective and depending on listeners ears.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235135"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


From my experience: if EAC goes through 5 bars but does it rather quickly, there are good chances the problematic spot is still listenable. (that is, you don't hear any errors). I had probably a couple of dozen cases like this, and in each case I coudn't hear anything.

However if you hear the drive starting and stopping on each try, the progress is very slow in general, I"m 100% positive this spot is unreadable. You may as well go ahead and cancel the process. About a dozen of cases like this. I've used to wait till it finishes but now I feel it's just a waste of time.

  • k.eight.a
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Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #10
I have a badly scratched CD (Gamma Ray - Blast from the Past). To be more exact, the CD is alright except the the track 10 where there is an awful small but deep scratch and it can't be grabbed on almost every ripper I tried. I used EAC, CDex and many others and althought it sometimes grabbed the whole song, yes with errors, there were a long passages where there was no signal at all. The last choice I made was an AudioGrabber with dynamic sync width and it grabbed the whole song with introduced errors but there's signal even in the worst passages. It can be listened when you don't point at details. I still have no opportunity to try CD doctors or stuff like that.
Sorry for my poor English, I'm trying to get better... ;)
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he didn't exist."

Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #11
Basically if a scratch is bad enough that it can't be read, the data has been destroyed and no program no matter how good can recover the data. If i ever get a track like that, I loan another copy off a friend or rent it from the library and take a clean rip from there. If its a very rare cd then theres not much i can do. 

I usually try cleaning the cd with toothpaste on any scratches but if the scratch is on the label side of the disc there is no hope.

I wish i had known how fragile cd's actually are, back when my oldest cd's were just left lying around.
  • Last Edit: 23 August, 2004, 02:33:58 PM by fistandantilus

  • FatBoyFin
  • [*]
Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #12
To lower the number of "re read" bars to one go to

EAC options, extraction tab, then error recovery quality and set it too low.

This will speed up extraction on badly scratched CDs, hopefully

PLease correct me if im wrong

  • edwardar
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Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #13
I'm not trying to scare-monger or anything, but I killed my old DVD writer (HP DVD100i) by leaving it ripping a badly damaged CD overnight.  Since I did that, it took my drive about a minute to access a CD, and it couldn't read much without having read errors.

Just a warning, I know the HP 100i wasn't exactly a great drive (!), but I wouldn't risk damaging my new drive just to rip a scratched CD.

Ed

  • Digisurfer
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Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #14
Quote
Never heard of using Brasso, but a friend of mine swears by TurtleWax for CD repair.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Brasso works great as a polish. Also does a good job of cleaning the CD too since it contains petrolium distilate. Check out these two sites:

[a href="http://www.burningissues.net/how_to/scratchrepair/scratchrepair.htm]http://www.burningissues.net/how_to/scratc...ratchrepair.htm[/url]
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/scratches.html

Want to hear something crazy I tried tonight? I have four CD's that have a few tracks that can't be read, and I've tried everything. So I went to the store and picked up some 2000 grit sandpaper (from the automotive section of Canadian Tire) and Turtle Wax Rubbing Compound. I sanded the worst of the CD's with a bit of water and the sandpaper, cleaned it with water, rubbed the thing down real good with some rubbing compound and paper towel, cleaned with water again, then rubbed it down three times with Brasso and a soft cloth, buffing with a soft fleece cloth. I was a bit worried, since the CD was looking a bit like frosted glass when held up to the light, lol. But it ripped perfectly with EAC, and there were ZERO errors. I was amazed. Just finished listening to the offending tracks and they are flawless. And all these things were cheap to buy.

To all: If you try this, use caution and don't blame me if something goes wrong. Make sure your desparate enough, and make sure to get as many tracks off the album to a lossless format as possible first.

  • westgroveg
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Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #15
Brasso is OK but takes a lot of work & won't get every CD extracted without errors. The best way is fine sand paper & then possibly brasso for the thinest pass. I personal haven't been able to find more than 2200 grit sand paper so I am stuck with brasso for now.

  • bobwood
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Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #16
There are products made specifically for repairing scratches in plastic.  I recently purchased a Micro-Mesh KR-70 restoration kit and used it to fix a scratch in the display window of my Nomad Jukebox.  It contains several grades of sandpaper, down to 6000 grit, a foam backing block, a bottle of polish, and instructions.  I see it most frequently where supplies for private pilots and aircraft are sold.  Its used to fix scratches in airplane windows.  Expect to pay about $20.  One kit would be enough for many CDs.

I just tried it on a CD that had a moderately bad scratch.  A few nights ago I was working on another problem with this CD with the following results.
I was able to rip it to MP3 files with Plextools and my Plexwriter Premium.  No errors but it took longer than normal.
I then tried to make an image file and cue file with EAC.  About 60% though the disc EAC slowed down to where it took a minute or two for each 0.1%.  I finally canceled it.
I was able to make a copy with Plextools again taking longer than normal to read but no errors reported.
Tonite I scanned the disk for errors with Plextools before doing anything to it and again at different stages of sanding and polishing.
Code: [Select]
In the original condition
                 C1             C2           CU
Avg/sec        142.2          126.6          0.0
Max/sec        277.0          850.0          0.0
Total        27394.0       379928.0          0.0

After sanding with 3600 then 4000 grit
                 C1             C2           CU
Avg/sec        144.1           15.4          4.5
Max/sec        378.0          481.0        267.0
Total       433353.0        46229.0      13501.0

After sanding with 6000
                 C1             C2           CU
Avg/sec        265.9           22.4         81.2
Max/sec        483.0          342.0        659.0
Total       499021.0        67320.0     244537.0

After polishing
                 C1             C2           CU
Avg/sec        122.6             0.1         0.0
Max/sec        232.0            51.0         0.0
Total       368630.0           280.0         0.0

(Is there a better way to make a table than a code block??)

After the polishing I was able to make an image file with EAC.  It took 5:50 and reported no errors.
Two more notes
If I look at the disk it is obvious I could do a better job with practice.  There are still scratches visible from the sanding steps.
This disk is from the 80s.  Other disks I have scanned have as many errors as this one has after the sanding and polishing
  • Last Edit: 29 August, 2004, 03:26:42 PM by bobwood

  • Andavari
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #17
Quote
To lower the number of "re read" bars to one go to

EAC options, extraction tab, then error recovery quality and set it too low.

This will speed up extraction on badly scratched CDs, hopefully
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=236499"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The good thing about that approach is "it may not stress the drive as much."

The bad thing about that approach is if EAC is configured to give up so early in error correction you'll never know if it is possible to get an error-free copy on a scratched CD, and subsequently and/or possibly end up with a stack of un-ripped CDs that may have been rippable without audible errors.
Complexity of incoherent design.

  • Pio2001
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #18
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After the polishing I was able to make an image file with EAC.  It took 5:50 and reported no errors.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=237803"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Strange, according to your table, the more you polish it, the more you get errors.

  • Digisurfer
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Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #19
While Brasso is pretty good, I agree it's still far from perfect. It's only good for light scratches really, and even then there is no guarantee. The stuff is cheap though, and definitely better than toothpaste, lol.

Sanding is probably the only way to really deal with scratches properly, especially deep ones. The kit that bobwood mentions sounds intruiging. The CD I did last night still looks a bit frosted, and I wish I could do a better job of polishing the sanding marks out. 2000 grit was the finest paper I could find, though I'm going to hunt around tomorrow to see if I can find anything finer since the rubbing compound simply isn't enough.

Depsite not looking so great to the eye, I was able to play the CD without errors in several devices, including a really old Technics CD player that is really finicky when it comes to scratches. Only the very end of the last track skipped a bit. Before treatment the CD was totally unplayable in that player.

  • bobwood
  • [*]
Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #20
Quote
Quote
After the polishing I was able to make an image file with EAC.  It took 5:50 and reported no errors.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=237803"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Strange, according to your table, the more you polish it, the more you get errors.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=237836"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



Thats because in my multiple attempts to get the columns of my table alligned, I managed to leave out the numbers for the polished scan.  I have corrected the post.

  • kennedyb4
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Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #21
Quote
Sanding is probably the only way to really deal with scratches properly, especially deep ones. The kit that bobwood mentions sounds intruiging. The CD I did last night still looks a bit frosted, and I wish I could do a better job of polishing the sanding marks out. 2000 grit was the finest paper I could find..
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=237894"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hi. This is what works for me. I found 2500 grit at a car refinishing place. It was emery paper and was perfect for wet sanding. To buff out the milkiness that this grit leaves I use a piece of felt.

Still, 2000 with buffing should make it redable by a computer drive. Try the felt and remember to wet sand 

EAC is useful for telling you when a disc needs resurfacing or for correcting mild scratches for sure,but there are limits to what it can do.

PS  FWIW I have wet sanded well over 100 cd's anyway and have never wrecked a cd in such a way that it could not be easily ripped, although the residual milkiness post buffing messed up in my car player a few times. You can always rip and burn an image if this happens
  • Last Edit: 29 August, 2004, 05:15:52 PM by kennedyb4

  • Digisurfer
  • [*][*][*][*]
Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #22
Hehe, the second CD didn't go too well. I actually managed to make it unreadable using wet sanding and buffing. So I phoned around and discovered a local game rental store that has an industrial CD resurfacing machine. I figured what the heck and took all four down. I made a real mess of that one CD too, just for the heck of it (I had already made it unreadable after all). I was blown away when I got them back the next day. They looked like brand new and ripped flawlessly! So if your desperate and don't mind spending the cash ($4.99 CDN per CD here) this is definitely a great solution. Still a little bit on the expensive side, but if you factor in the final quality and especially your time (in my case trying to track down finer grit sandapers), I'd say it's money well spent.

  • Grey
  • [*][*][*]
Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #23
Quote
To all: If you try this, use caution and don't blame me if something goes wrong. Make sure your desparate enough, and make sure to get as many tracks off the album to a lossless format as possible first.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=237784"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I just learned that lesson the hard way.

If anyone should get the idea to experiment with different household chemicals, avoid nail polish remover. In my attempt to remove a minor scratch, I destroyed the entire CD.

  • VolMax
  • [*][*]
Scratched CDs and EAC
Reply #24
Try to use different drive if you can (possibly on the friend's computer). CD drives are not same in terms of extraction quality. I have CD's unrippabble without errors on ones, and perfecty on others.