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Topic: Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?. (Read 6599 times) previous topic - next topic
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Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

What I've heard is that sound in (most) computergames arent even encoded in Dolby Surround, but just as 4 separate audiotracks. Is that true?.

If that's true what would that mean if you have a multichannel digital out from a soundcard?. Would there be any sound at all if you played it through an external decoder?.

I'm asking because I'm currently thinking of buying one of these babies:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP....RDS5100&Dept=pa

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #1 –
Encoding doesn't matter at sound effects, (only at music, and videos) because the  multichannel sound is just calculated. I mean in most games you have a bunch of stereo files which are played at the correct speakers eg. if a can drops to the ground to your right, the sound for the can will be played from the right speakers.
Also there is EAX in most of the games which will calc. reverb for sounds.

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #2 –
also games like Mafia use multichannel Ogg Vorbis files, so you get a surround that way.

some games (ex. Neverwinter Nights) do use Dolby though. However the vast majority uses EAX for surround. That thing you have there will still work, the sound card will be doing the decoding and the sound will just go through, the build in decoders will be used in DVD/DVD-A playback.

also note that unless you have an nForce 2 motherboard with SoundStorm on it (which translates everything into AC3 realtime), you can't output through coax/optical for anyting other than DVD/DVD-A, only 6ch direct.

In Short:
That thing will work just fine, but won't make a diference in games that don't specifically say Dolby on them.
The Plan Within Plans

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #3 –
For 3D games, it's EAX or D3D, which is pretty much just how the game tells the soundcard where sounds are in the 3D world.  From there, it's up to the soundcard what happens.  6-channel analog out, 6-channel digital out (with Creative soundcard/speaker combos only), or encode into Dolby Digital (like nForce mobos do).

Unfortunately, sound engineering in games is usually pretty sad.  Ogg's multichannel support can help a little with that though.  Hope it gets used more and more.

Soul Calibur II on the consoles, now there's some good 5.1 sound from game.  I was surprised.  But I'm getting off topic...

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #4 –
hmm, must admit I've never really understood this correctly.

Basically Dolby Surround (or DTS) is an encoded bitstream which need to be decoded into 5,6,7 channels that are converted to 5, 6 or 7 ananlog outs.

Also there are 2 channel bitstreams which need no decoding but are directly output as stereo. Are there also 4,5,6,7 channel bitstreams output that need no strict decoding?. And so is that what most computergames uses?... and finally (if I've understood this correctly) any normal decoder like the one here mentioned should pass on a 5 channel bitstream as 5 channel analog output?:

----snip---
  World's First Headphone System To Carry Both The Virtual Dolby Digital Certification And DTS (Digital Theater Systems) Virtual 5.1 Certification For "Best Seat" Theater-Quality Listening

•  Superb Surround Sound System With Enhanced Sound Quality And Triple-Speed Lightning-Fast Digital Processing

•  Ideal For DVD Players And Other Components Offering Dolby Digital, Dolby Surround Or DTS Surround Sound

•  Versatile, Comfortable Open Air Headphones Can Also Be Used With Normal 2-Channel Stereo Systems

•  Utilizes Sony VPT Virtual Phones Technology™ With Advanced Level 125 MIPS Logic 3D Processor

•  Built In Decoders For Dolby Digital, Dolby, And DTS Surround

•  Built In Dolby. Pro Logic. Decoder

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #5 –
Yes it can decode DTS and dolby (ac3) files, however this doesn't affect games. Only if you end up with one using dts or ac3, which unlikely.

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #6 –
With a Creative soundcard and Creative speaker system combo you can use their own "Digital DIN" connection, which allows for 6 channels of digital audio between the soundcard and speaker system with no encoding/decoding of any kind (just pure 16-bit 48KHz PCM).  Other than that, I'm pretty sure that as far as digital audio goes there are only stereo connections, which can carry compressed bitstreams like Dolby Digital or DTS, or just stereo PCM.

It looks like the decoder you've mentioned will convert Dolby Digital or DTS into 2 analog channels containing "virtual 5.1" sound for headphones.

P.S.  "Dolby Digital" is an encoded bitstream, not "Dolby Surround".  Well, I guess it can be encoded too, but it's just a stereo signal, which can optionally be run through a Pro Logic decoder for some crummy surround.

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #7 –
As said above, Creative cards don't do real-time dolby encoding, so game audio  and music sent through a digital out to a receiver will just be stereo. 

Pretty pathetic when manufacturers sell an enire nforce motherboard with onboard audio that offers dolby encoding, for the price of an Audigy2 that lacks it.

To connect to receivers for surround from creative cards you must use the 3 pairs of analog outs.  Apologists for Creative point out that the analog outs are uncompressed, but it's still annoying to hook up 3 analog cables instead of 1 digital.

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #8 –
Quote
As said above, Creative cards don't do real-time dolby encoding, so game audio  and music sent through a digital out to a receiver will just be stereo. 

As said above; not if you use their proprietary digital connection together with a supported speaker system. Then you get true 5.1 positioning in any game that supports DirectSound3D.

Also, DD encoding is of no benefit for A2 cards since the DAC (CS4382) is a high quality one. Unlike most nForce boards with crappy analog output.

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #9 –
Quote
Then you get true 5.1 positioning in any game that supports DirectSound3D.


This is not dolby digital encoding, which is what the man said.

This is a proprietary digital interconnect which does not use DD encoding.

  You cannot take this signal and splice it to a coax cable and introduce it to a dolby digital decoder and expect it to decode.

  It won't work, because it isnt a dolby digital encoded signal at all, it's using a proprietary digital interconnection with proprietary logic at the other end to convert it to analog.

  The "need" for DD encoding to pass audio to a 6-channel separate is about as necessary as the proprietary Creative digital interconnnect.
  (edit:
  There are probably quite a few more owners of Dolby-Digital decoding recievers with speakers than there are owners of Creative digital connectable speakers sets, BTW)

  It's convenient, and requires a single connection either way. The NForce2 boards have the massive advantage of dolby digital encoding, which allows most any newer HT reciever to decode the signal.
  Once again, this is not what Creative does.

  If you want 3D audio in games in more channels than two with an Audigy (or any other sound card) to your HT speaker set, you must connect to the reciever via the three analog jacks. You do not have an option.
  The only way you can use the proprietary digital connection is with the proprietary speaker sets from Creative.  The only "Creative" speakers I have personally heard that were not low quality were the Cambridge Megaworks systems, which are about on par with the Klipsch MM systems (which arent bad at all) IMO.

  The NF2 DD encoder allows all audio, regardless of whether from games or whatnot (movies already being preencoded), to be mapped to the appropriate speaker and carried over the single digital connection to any HT reciever with a DD decoder.
  This allows the user to take advantage of their not-inconsiderable investment in HT gear, which is a huge bonus for most anyone who has done so.
   
  As you point out, the quality of the typical onboard CODEC (ALC650) isn't the greatest meaning analog output quality is likely rather low. Luckily, the new generation of CODECs (VT1616, ALC655, CMI9739) are significantly higher in quality.
It is still much more convenient to run a single connection between the reciever and the computer.
  The 3D hardware audio support of the NForce2 APU is not as good as the SB cards however (no EAX HD)
edited for clarity, modifications

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #10 –
What he said was
Quote
so game audio and music sent through a digital out to a receiver will just be stereo.


..which is correct. I merely added that if you use the Digital DIN connection that is not true. In that case there is no need for the lossy DD encoding since you get true 5.1 in games supporting DS3D. I also said that a supported speaker system is necessary. Comprende?

The rest of your post you are just reiterating things nobody argues.

I guess I'm tired of the DICE being hyped as a major advantage over other solutions. Relative to proper soundcards the only benefit boils down to "less cables", which imo is not an argument for me since the cables between my speakers and my soundcard is a single cable that only splits up at the ends.

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #11 –
Quote
As said above, Creative cards don't do real-time dolby encoding, so game audio and music sent through a digital out to a receiver will just be stereo.


  This is the section you quoted - my answer was based on the fact that you took issue with it ("not if you..."), when it is a totally accurate statement which you appeared to directly disagree with, since you quoted it and nothing else.
Quote
I guess I'm tired of the DICE being hyped as a major advantage over other solutions.

I wonder if you would be tired of it if your sound card supported it? 
Probably, since you're right, it's only an advantage for reciever owners

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #12 –
Quote
If you want 3D audio in games in more channels than two with an Audigy (or any other sound card) to your HT speaker set, you must connect to the reciever via the three analog jacks. You do not have an option.

----

The NF2 DD encoder allows all audio, regardless of whether from games or whatnot (movies already being preencoded), to be mapped to the appropriate speaker and carried over the single digital connection to any HT reciever with a DD decoder.
  This allows the user to take advantage of their not-inconsiderable investment in HT gear, which is a huge bonus for most anyone who has done so.


Argh  , so those headphones wont work for games unless I use a MB with a NF2 DD. Such a pity, cause they are quite cool, with built in gyroscope and everything. I guess this is one reason to buy a 5.1 system designed for computers.

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #13 –
Is there any separate soundcard that has this feature?

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #14 –
Quote
Is there any separate soundcard that has this feature?


  The new (athlon64 platform) NForce3 does not possess this feature (single chip chipset), so apparently nvidia is working on releasing standalone cards using the APU, or an improved version of it. I believe Digit-life has a quote found on the nvidia site that indicates this is the case.

Quote
so those headphones wont work for games unless I use a MB with a NF2 DD.

Well they probably will, but the output will be in stereo. 

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #15 –
Ok, I just have to wait. B)

I just figured out that I won't ever be able to use a 5.1 equipment anyway because of neighbours. Plus I cant imagine setting up 2 sets of 5.1 speaker setups in my livingroom, one for the computer and one for the TV. Those rear speaker stands for the computer will just stand there in the middle of the room looking stupid.

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #16 –
Can't you use one 5.1 audio system for both?

D.

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #17 –
would be kind of hard unless you're using your tv as your monitor, seems to me
 

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #18 –
I like to sit quite close to my monitor and quite far away from my TV. My TV will sit on a low table and my monitor on a desk with a chair in front of it. If anyone have a great idea how to combine them both I'd be grateful to hear it.
(and no, I don't like moving around my 19" CRT screen, unplugging cables and such)
     

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #19 –
M$ XBOX game consol can do realtime Dolby Digital encoding. It encoded directional interactive sound in realtime using encoder chip from Dolby. It's work great because game consol usually connect to home theater system.

PS2 and GameCube can only output pre-encoded DD/DTS bitstream in cut-scene movie since they do not have encoder chip.

IMHO, surround is very important in gaming especially for FPS genre.

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #20 –
Yeah,  read about the xBOX. Quite a smart solution I think. It must cost a fortune to incorporate 5 good quality D/A in a box. I'm currently evaluating buying one of these and use it for DVD playback too.

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #21 –
Quote
Yeah,  read about the xBOX. Quite a smart solution I think. It must cost a fortune to incorporate 5 good quality D/A in a box. I'm currently evaluating buying one of these and use it for DVD playback too.

If you consider buying XBOX as a media player, I suggest you to buy one ASAP.  And you should mod it too (now you can do software mod)

The best 3rd party application (need moded box) for the box is XBOX Media Player (now become XBOX Media Center).

You can play most audio/video formats (AAC and Ogg but not MPC) with it, with look and feel of Windows XP Media Center but support format that M$ don't want you to do.

Quote
XboxMediaPlayer 2.4 point release source code supports the following:

Supported input formats and devices:
- Read files directly from CD, VCD or DVD** media in the Xbox's DVD-ROM drive***
  (Support CD/DVD formats:  ISO 9660 - Mode1/2/XA, UDF 1.02 and XDVDFS/CDX)****
- Read files directly from the Xbox's build-in hard drive***** (copy to HDD via FTP)
- Stream files from a computer over a local network via XNS, XBMSP or SMB
- Fully control XboxMediaPlayer and its features via Xbox™ DVD Remote******
- Alternativly control XboxMediaPlayer and its features via Xbox™ controller

Supported output formats and devices:
- TV-output: NTSC (America/Asia) and PAL (Europe/Africa) and HDTV
- NTSC playback on PAL Xbox/TV and PAL playback on NTSC Xbox/TV
- HDTV 720p & 1080i support (multiple resolutions & progressive scan)*
- VGA is also possible via third-party adapters or hacked Xbox BIOS's

Supported file/container formats:
- SVCD and VCD (Video CD) (SVCD/VCD menu's are not supported yet)
- DVD disk directly from Xbox DVD-ROM (native DVD menu's are only partialy working)*
- MPEG, MPG formats (incuding S/VCD's *.da and *.bin and DVD's *.vob)
- RIFF AVI (AVI 1.0) file format (OpenDML AVI's are not yet supported)
- Microsoft ASF/ASX/WMV/WMA formats
- QuickTime QT/MOV format
- MP2, MP3 and WAV format
- RealMedia (RealVideo) RM format
- OGG and OGM format
- Matroska (матрёшка) MKV
- VIVO (*.viv) format
- Theora Video (VP3/SVQ3) format
- PVA format
- NuppelVideo format
- FLI format
- M3U audio and video playlists from DVD-ROM, HDD, XNS, XBMSP or SMB

Supported video/audio codecs and picture formats:
- MPEG-1 (VCD/MPG) and MPEG-2 (SVCD/MPEG/DVD/VOB/DV) video
- DivX;-) 3.11, OpenDivX 4.0, DivX 5.03, XviD, and BivX
- Windows Media Video v7, v8 and v9 (MSMpeg4/WMV v1, v2 & v3)
- RealVideo 1.0 and RealVideo 2.0 (G2)
- QuickTime 6.0 video (video only, no audio yet)
- Sorenson v1/v3 (SVQ1/SVQ3) QuickTime video
- Theora Video (VP3/SVQ3) video
- AVC - Advanced Video Coding (H.264)
- Intel Indeo 3.1/3.2 (Indeo3)
- NuppelVideo (NUV)
- VIVO 1.0 and 2.0 (VIV)
- Autodesk FLI and FLC Animation
- WAV and PCM audio format
- MP3 (MPEG layer 1, 2, and 3) audio
- OGG (Ogg Vorbis audio codec)
- WMA - Windows Media Audio v1 and v2 (WMA1/2 / DivX Audio v1/v2)
- WMA - Windows Media Audio v9 (WMA9) (via WMV9 DLL's)
- AC3 (Dolby Digital 5.1) audio in video (SP/DIF AC3 output or software)
- AAC - Advanced Audio Coding (MPEG-4 audio) in video
- BMP picture/image
- JPG/JPEG picture/image
- GIF picture/image
- PNG picture/image
- TIF/TIFF picture/image
- TGA picture/image
- PCX picture/image
- ICO picture/image


More Info
http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/newweb/info_screens.htm
http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/

Sound in computergames, DTS, Dolby or what?.

Reply #22 –
I chose not to buy those headhpones anyway.(Sony MDR DS8000) They were quite good (as headphones) but when they tried emulating surround, it got kind of messy. Firstly I'd say they're not bad, but they don't succeed in fooling me that there are two frontal speakers where there arent any, second it sounds simply better using them without the virtual surround mode. The voices are simply not natural when using the virtual mode. They sound kind of tin-canny-like. When you A/B with normal mode you hear it quite easily.