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Topic: CDex vs EAC (Read 8034 times) previous topic - next topic
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CDex vs EAC

As promised, I tested CDEx vs EAC with some bad CDs.

Windows98, ASPI 4.71,
Memorex DVDMaxx 1648 as secondary slave

I tested with dying CDRs.

EAC :
Accurate, C2, no cache
One line of red lights from time to time, but no error occured. Result, different CRC. I tried once more, still no errors, but stll another CRC.

CDex full paranoia. Errors : 0. Status : OK.
Ripping again, still 0 errors, but the resulting file is different !

I tried a worse CD.
EAC was so slow at correcting errors that I gave up the ripping !
CDEx reported no errors, and the resulting files (ripping twice) were different !

I never heard a click in any rip, though.

You may wonder why I don't switch to a proper EAC setting, like no C2, caching. That's because :
1- With C2 off and caching on, I still get no errors and different files.
2- With non accurate, it gets so damn slow that I didn't took the time needed for testing, knowing that I'd have to perform several tries to get no errors from a bad track (and see if the rips are identical), and that one hour would be needed to read the track once.
3- CRC checking is more secure than any secure mode.
4- I get 13x in test and copy, with C2 on (because it's 25x/2) So having CRC+C2 checking as secure mode at 13x, I don't see why I would switch to a slower and less secure mode, like cache+no C2+not accurate !


Conclusion,
I don't know if EAC's "secure mode" is more secure than CDex's "full paranoia", but "full paranoia" is no more secure than "secure mode".
And in EAC, I can compare wavs and see where the errors are, and I can also test and copy, that is more secure than full paranoia.

CDex vs EAC

Reply #1 –
My interpretation of FAQs about 'how to use EAC'.

* check the box for 'accurate'
* do NOT check the box for C2. meaning C2 will not be used. like EAC says, it only makes the process more complicated.

* check the box for 'cache'. meaning: if your drive has a cache, it will be disabled. If your drive doesn't have a cache, checking this box has no effect.

total:
accurate: check
cache: check
C2: empty box.

and then, of course, you use 'test & copy' to get two rips and compare their CRCs (which is the safest way, like you said).

CDex vs EAC

Reply #2 –
Installing EAC, the configuration wizard will set the right settings for your drive.
If you want to do it manually, enter yourself the settings that are detected by EAC. You must not use the same settings for all drives, exept "no C2, cache, not accurate", that is a slow as hell, but work for all drives (well in fact no, my Teac 540 crashes when I check cache).

Checking cache has an effect : it slows down the extraction.
And why would I check accurate stream if my drive doesn't have it ? I don't want clicks between the tracks !

CDex vs EAC

Reply #3 –
I just want to add that I have an audio CD that is protected by Cactus Data Shield 200. EAC simply hangs when it tries to rip the CD, but CDex ripped it as if it was a normal CD, without giving any errors. I don't know if CDex ripped it correctly, but I cannot hear a single problem in the ripped WAVs.

CDex vs EAC

Reply #4 –
seems like a stupid question to ask. If EAC's settings are right and the drive Hardware side is properly configed. Would i still get artifacts in ripped files with EAC in secure mode. Assuming the CD is not too horribly bad.

CDex vs EAC

Reply #5 –
Quote
Originally posted by Pio2001

3- CRC checking is more secure than any secure mode.

Conclusion, 
I don't know if EAC's "secure mode" is more secure than CDex's "full paranoia", but "full paranoia" is no more secure than "secure mode".
And in EAC, I can compare wavs and see where the errors are, and I can also test and copy, that is more secure than full paranoia.


I used to think like that until one day i talked to one of cdparanoia developers. Can´t remember the exact words, but it was something like this:

CRC or any other compare method won´t do any good if the source wasn´t ripped properly in the first place. As you can simply repeat the same mistake again and again.


On the other hand, CDex is open source, anyone can help improve it, and the ripping method can be examined and discussed.
She is waiting in the air

CDex vs EAC

Reply #6 –
Quote
Originally posted by Pio2001
Installing EAC, the configuration wizard will set the right settings for your drive.
If you want to do it manually, enter yourself the settings that are detected by EAC. You must not use the same settings for all drives, exept "no C2, cache, not accurate", that is a slow as hell, but work for all drives (well in fact no, my Teac 540 crashes when I check cache).

Checking cache has an effect : it slows down the extraction.
And why would I check accurate stream if my drive doesn't have it ? I don't want clicks between the tracks !



Okay I typed up my response a bit too fast. What I meant was...

* Of course, only check the box to use accurate stream if your drive _has_ accurate stream.

* From what I've read, I think using the drive's cache will lead to an insecure and slow ripping process. So you would not want to use it. Therefore, by checking the box next to drive's cache, you will disable the use of your drive's cache. And I assumed that if you'd check it if your drive doesn't have a cache, checking this box will have no effect, and surely not slow down the ripping process.

I don't know why you say that this method is 'slow as hell'. (We're talkin about the same settings, right?)

CDex vs EAC

Reply #7 –
What does CDex do when it comes to ripping from drives that use cache?
Is the risk of getting corrupted wave-files bigger with CDex than with EAC if you have a drive with cache?
-niels

CDex vs EAC

Reply #8 –
No, using audiocache makes the entire secure process worthless.
If the drive caches and you don't disable it in EAC, EAC will read from the cache and always get the same information as before, thus reporting a good copy, altho it may be horrible. If you disable the cache, EAC empties it constantly hence the speed reduction.

CDex vs EAC

Reply #9 –
Quote
MTRH:  No, using audiocache makes the entire secure process worthless.
If the drive caches and you don't disable it in EAC, EAC will read from the cache and always get the same information as before, thus reporting a good copy, altho it may be horrible. If you disable the cache, EAC empties it constantly hence the speed reduction.



So cache is only a problem when ripping with Eac and not when you rip with CDex?
-niels

CDex vs EAC

Reply #10 –
Quote
Originally posted by freshfruit
checking this box will have no effect, and surely not slow down the ripping process.
I don't know why you say that this method is 'slow as hell'. (We're talkin about the same settings, right?)


Speed in secure mode in the middle of first track of a pressed CD. Extraction started when the drive spins at full speed, just after EAC's launching (otherwise, the drive spins down while idle and doesn't spin up back when the extraction starts / yes I tried "spin up drive before extraction", it's a firmware matter).

C2 no cache : 17x
No C2 accurate no cache : 8.7x
No C2 accurate cache : 5.9x

That's what I call as slow as hell

Quote
Originally posted by Artemis3
CRC or any other compare method won't do any good if the source wasn't ripped properly in the first place. As you can simply repeat the same mistake again and again.


The only other way to go is C2
I use both  :evil:

CDex vs EAC

Reply #11 –
Quote
Originally posted by nc8
So cache is only a problem when ripping with Eac and not when you rip with CDex?

No, EAC is only program that can fix the cache issue. MTRH was replying to freshfruit.

CDex vs EAC

Reply #12 –
Quote
Case: MTRH was replying to freshfruit.


Ah okay, sorry.

Quote
Case: No, EAC is only program that can fix the cache issue.


How will these cache flaws appear in the wave-file? As a *click* or something?
-niels

CDex vs EAC

Reply #13 –
Quote
Originally posted by nc8
How will these cache flaws appear in the wave-file? As a *click* or something?

Depends on drive, but it could cause clicks or pops on scratched discs. And if drive doesn't even have accurate stream, it could make jitter correction impossible.

CDex vs EAC

Reply #14 –
Quote
Case: Depends on drive, but it could cause clicks or pops on scratched discs. And if drive doesn't even have accurate stream, it could make jitter correction impossible.


Okay, thanks
-niels

CDex vs EAC

Reply #15 –
Quote
Originally posted by Case
Depends on drive, but it could cause clicks or pops on scratched discs.


In burst mode, cache has no effect.
In secure mode, it will prevent EAC to detect errors if "cache" is not checked.