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Topic: Looking for new audio player, questions... (Read 10927 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #25 –
Quote from: tinpanalley on
Quote from: saratoga on
Is low volume actually a problem for you?  If it is, buying headphones with higher sensitivity is also an option.
I've currently got a pair of SoundMagic E10. Yes, through this phone, the music is low at certain normal city noise. Not normally low, less than normal.

100dB/mW and 16 Ohms is 118.0 dB/V, so unless the volume cap on your phone is extraordinarily low, I would not expect there to be a problem.  Typically the EU volume limit will be something like 100-150 mV, giving you about 100 dB maximum output. 

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #26 –
Quote from: saratoga on
100dB/mW and 16 Ohms is 118.0 dB/V, so unless the volume cap on your phone is extraordinarily low, I would not expect there to be a problem.  Typically the EU volume limit will be something like 100-150 mV, giving you about 100 dB maximum output.
From GSM Arena:
Nokia Lumia 925 (headphones attached)
Frequency response +0.44, -0.13
Noise level -82.5
Dynamic range 82.6
THD 0.011
IMD + Noise 0.469   
Stereo crosstalk -53.8
And phonearena puts the heaphone output volts at 0.43

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #27 –
That is the typical half volt output, but in the EU you'll be about 10 dB less. 

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #28 –
Quote from: saratoga on
That is the typical half volt output, but in the EU you'll be about 10 dB less. 
Ok, well I don't know, it just seems low. I'm not adept enough with audio hardware specs to explain why or how but I do know audio recording and editing and it just does. And I don't quite like the idea of having to walk around with the phone AND an amp jiggling around in my bag, pocket, etc.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #29 –
I wanted to pitch in. I have very similar needs to yours, including the technicallypointless FLAC.  I have a Fiio X3II, as well as an XI that I got from a contest. I am completely in love with their products which are basically transparent and dirt cheap. I haven't had any issues with artwork, but it's not a big deal to me so I may not have noticed them. I prefer my X3 for a bunch of small reasons but I wouldn't be annoyed if I was stuck with the X1 for the rest of my life. They just released a firmware update for the X3 with replaygain and a bunch of other stuff which should be coming to the X1 in a few weeks.

If I sound like a fanboy it's because I absolutely am. I have 2 players and 5 headphone amps from Fiio, and I couldn't be happier. They really are all the audio device you could need (in terms of headphones). I had a Sansa Clip with rockbox and that was good, but the stuff Fiio makes is really phenominal. They also have very good customer service for a Chinese company, and better than many western companies I have dealt with.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #30 –
Quote from: saratoga on
These are very rare on phones, much more so than dedicated audio devices.  Remember some of the first widely mass produced devices with ultra low output impedance were integrated DACs on SOCs for iPods and Sansa Clips.  These devices had low output impedance because they were (often) directly coupled (no cap at all) to an amp integrated into the same silicon as the processor.  These designs were used in smartphone chipsets from qualcomm and samsung from the start, and only latter started showing  up in more expensive devices.  For this reason, its actually quite rare to find high output impedance mobile devices, at least from mainstream manufacturers.
Good to know.
Does there exists any site with objective measurements of headphone out for modern smartphones? I know few sites with some amount of measurements for DAPs/soundcards/amplifiers, but none for phones.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #31 –
Quote from: Rollin on
Quote from: saratoga on
These are very rare on phones, much more so than dedicated audio devices.  Remember some of the first widely mass produced devices with ultra low output impedance were integrated DACs on SOCs for iPods and Sansa Clips.  These devices had low output impedance because they were (often) directly coupled (no cap at all) to an amp integrated into the same silicon as the processor.  These designs were used in smartphone chipsets from qualcomm and samsung from the start, and only latter started showing  up in more expensive devices.  For this reason, its actually quite rare to find high output impedance mobile devices, at least from mainstream manufacturers.
Good to know.
Does there exists any site with objective measurements of headphone out for modern smartphones? I know few sites with some amount of measurements for DAPs/soundcards/amplifiers, but none for phones.

Unfortunately finding reliable and complete measurements for H-Fi equipment is hard enough. I would be very surprised if you can find them for phones.

One particularly terrible example I saw recently is Bose. They just don't list any specs for their headphones (or at least the two pairs that I looked up). Yet another reason not to buy from Bose...

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Rollin on
Does there exists any site with objective measurements of headphone out for modern smartphones? I know few sites with some amount of measurements for DAPs/soundcards/amplifiers, but none for phones.

GSM Arena does RMAA under 16 ohm load for most of their reviews:

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s7-review-1408p7.php

Almost everything they review is more or less 16 bit limited though. 

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #33 –
I stand corrected, that's not bad as a baseline. Still doesn't have max current, voltage and output impedance, but their audience probably doesn't give a toss.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #34 –
Quote from: nintendoeats on
I stand corrected, that's not bad as a baseline. Still doesn't have max current, voltage and output impedance, but their audience probably doesn't give a toss.

It wouldn't be super interesting since all Qualcomm devices will be alike, and all are low impedance. maximum voltage would be nice to know, but it varies from region to region due to regulation.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #35 –
Hi,

I know neither the conditions you are listening in nor if the maximum volume of the Lumia is lower than on my iPhone, but perhaps it's worthwhile improving the sealing of you earphones to keep the noise out. I went down this route this because I did not want to have the music compete with the surrounding sounds by cranking up the volume to damaging levels. My solution was to get in-ears with a set of sleeves that I could experiment with. Now I am happily listening to music while on the train or on a plane; it's not that everything is blocked, but enough. Your budget might allow getting custom-fit sleeves for your existing earbuds to have a perfect sealing.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #37 –
Quote from: KFal on
Hi, I know neither the conditions you are listening in nor if the maximum volume of the Lumia is lower than on my iPhone, but perhaps it's worthwhile improving the sealing of you earphones to keep the noise out. I went down this route this because I did not want to have the music compete with the surrounding sounds by cranking up the volume to damaging levels. My solution was to get in-ears with a set of sleeves that I could experiment with. Now I am happily listening to music while on the train or on a plane; it's not that everything is blocked, but enough. Your budget might allow getting custom-fit sleeves for your existing earbuds to have a perfect sealing.
My earbuds do have silicon sealing sleeves already. I just did a test to make sure I wasn't nuts. I played a song from the exact same album on my Cowon and on the Lumia 925. There is no question that both at full volume are different noticeably. The phone is lower. Now what I'm wondering, a bit like what you said, is whether I shouldn't just use this as a way of making sure I don't blow my ears out. Maybe I don't need it going so high. I was just in situations last week where I was even on a mild traffic street and felt the need to turn it up higher. And I'm pretty sure that I'm able to objectively state that that isn't just me having bad hearing. I don't know, I keep looking at other players to see if I find something I like which can then check for review on.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #38 –
Quote
through this phone, the music is low at certain normal city noise.

A method of avoiding this problem is to get some noise cancelling headphones.

By cutting out much of the background distraction you can actually listen to audio satisfactorily at a lower level. Better for your long term hearing too.
You could buy a l;ouder amplifier or get more efficient or isolated ordinary headphones. But it's going make you deaf sooner or later. City street backround, trains, planes etc can have 85 -90 dB. Get 20 dB above that and it really is danger territory with regular use.

oh like others have said already - all you need is a phone.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #39 –
Quote from: RonaldDumsfeld on
A method of avoiding this problem is to get some noise cancelling headphones.
I've got noise cancelling IEMs. But anyway, though you're right about hearing damage, I've confirmed that there is an EU regulation on the volume limits of certain phones (which is a good thing, to me)  and so I'm not nuts when I say that this phone sound lower. It clearly is lower. I'm playing with an old Android I have that could be fine if it only had to run a music app. But I'm struggling to find one that lets me look through folders the way I do on my desktop using JRiver. For ease of use, the app I use has got to have the same library maintenance as my library on my desktop otherwise I'm organising things twice.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #40 –
Windows phone is a bit difficult in that sense. There are a lot of good apps for android (and a lot more of not so good ones), but my main reason for not going for a windows phone was that I wasn't able to find a full featured music and/or video app. After I attempted to code for the windows phone platform myself, I understood why <_<

On android, as long as you don't want "exotic" things like ReplayGain or wide codec support, the free Sony Music app (formerly Walkman) seems like a good choice. It also has folder navigation. I'm currently using GoneMAD though, mostly for ReplayGain and format support. It has its issues, but is worth its money overall.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #41 –
Quote from: ChronoSphere on
Windows phone is a bit difficult in that sense. There are a lot of good apps for android (and a lot more of not so good ones), but my main reason for not going for a windows phone was that I wasn't able to find a full featured music and/or video app. After I attempted to code for the windows phone platform myself, I understood why <_<
On android, as long as you don't want "exotic" things like ReplayGain or wide codec support, the free Sony Music app (formerly Walkman) seems like a good choice. It also has folder navigation. I'm currently using GoneMAD though, mostly for ReplayGain and format support. It has its issues, but is worth its money overall.
Actually, I'm really torn between sticking with my last Windows Phone (Lumia 925) or going with an even older Android that hasn't done anything in over 3 years (HTC Glacier, aka "myTouch 4G"). Because sure, there are a few good apps on Android but Windows Phone has this app called Core that is really fantastic.
I think the HTC only allows up to 32GB microSD cards but I don't know what class of card it can read up to (how would I find that out?) and I have concerns about the battery life.
The Lumia on the other hand is physically the nicest designed phone I've ever owned. Really easy to walk around with but with no removable storage, and being forced to keep the 2-3GB of system data on the 16GB total, it leaves about 9-10 even with minimal apps installed. Which is fine, it's enough, I just have to change the music more often.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #42 –
Well, that Core app seems to at least have folders listing and flac support. In any case, you can give GoneMAD player a try, it has a 14 day trial. That or as I said, the Sony Music app - seems to be about the same feature-wise as Core. There should be a thread on xda-dev forums that has the .apk modified to run on any phone (it usually needs stuff from Sony's modified android to run)

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #43 –
I'll try the Sony app. I'll have to look for that apk. I've been on xda for years but not been in a long time having had Windows Phone for the past 3. GoneMAD I actually like, but I DO wish the artwork filled the screen side to side like in other apps. It's just that little bit smaller than it could be and the dev said I should minimise the amount of metadata tags that show up on the screen so the artwork gets bigger. See, I don't see why the Fiio X1 can't do that.
For other folder-driven apps you should look at MyPlayer++ and HikiPlayer. The MyPlayer++ one, also available on xda, is fantastic but has trouble reading some of my artwork which is the only thing stopping me from going with it. Waiting for word from the dev of that one about that issue. There's no scan or refresh feature.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #44 –
Quote from: ChronoSphere on
That or as I said, the Sony Music app...There should be a thread on xda-dev forums that has the .apk modified to run on any phone (it usually needs stuff from Sony's modified android to run)
Do you have any idea where that thread might be? I'm having trouble figuring out which it might be. Thanks!

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #46 –
Thanks. Ok, that's the one I saw.
I have this weird artwork issue now where some of my art doesn't show up for some albums. Weird because I get them all and always get the same type of file and res. I want to try this Sony one to see if I get any trouble.

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #48 –
Did you read the part about having to sign and/or push it to system manually for non-Sony devices?

Re: Looking for new audio player, questions...

Reply #49 –
Quote from: ChronoSphere on
Did you read the part about having to sign and/or push it to system manually for non-Sony devices?
Yes, but all I get is "unfortunately Music has stopped working" and a crash.