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Topic: Connecting amp to PC (Read 4549 times) previous topic - next topic
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Connecting amp to PC

Hi,

I guess this topic has been covered before but I'm getting so many unrelated topics when I do a keyword search. Could someone please give me some advice on the best way of connecting my PC to my amp. Specifically I'm interested in:

1. Which connection type is best and why? Digital optical, digital coax or USB? My amp can accept all three but the amp manual gives no guidance on which to use.

2. Is there any advantage of using a digital connection on a soundcard rather than the ones on the motherboard? I understand there is an advantage if using analogue outputs but does the same logic apply with digital connections? Or is it just "bits" of data on a digital connection?

3. When I installed Windows 7 I got terrible noise over each connection until I installed drivers specific to my motherboard. I'm not sure why this is as Windows 7 seemed to identify my devices all correctly. But it got me wondering what I need to do to get the best sound out of Windows 7? The sound can be a little "thin and strange" on some applications but much "fuller" on others. Is there some logical reason for this?

4. I've installed Foobar2000 and installed the WASAPI component. Is this the right thing to do and why? If it is correct is there a generic WASAPI "component" that works for all applications rather than just Foobar2000? If that is a stupid question then please forgive me as I have no real idea what WASPAPI is, even though I have read the some of the google results on it 

5. I know this is a difficult question but, why does music (in FLAC) format not sound as good from my PC as it does on my CD player? The amp is the same and according to the theory I've read it should be as good or better, but to me it sounds "harsher" and more "clinical". Is this because of got some of the above wrong or is it related to FLAC, or is it a Windows 7 issue? Before I was running Vista and just listening to Internet Radio and it sounded quite nice, but now the music doesn't sound as "musical"!!! Surely, the Internet Radio was a lower bit rate and therefore my FLAC files should sound much better? What am I not understanding?

Many thanks,

Leo

Connecting amp to PC

Reply #1 –
Quote
1. Which connection type is best and why? Digital optical, digital coax or USB? My amp can accept all three but the amp manual gives no guidance on which to use.
  The digital optical and coax transmit the same data.  (I don't know about the USB connection.*)  Coax cable is cheaper, so I'd use it.  Your amp probably has a DAC that's as good, or better than the DAC in your soundcard, so I'd generally prefer the digital connection.  And, it's only one cable which is much more convenient (and more reliable), especially with surround sound.

The other consideration are the processing options.  i.e. If you prefer the surround-sound "soundfield" effects or EQ effects from your soundcard, you may want to use an analog connection.  If your amp receiver has Pro Logic and your soundcard does not, you may want to use a digital connection, etc.


Quote
5. I know this is a difficult question but, why does music (in FLAC) format not sound as good from my PC as it does on my CD player? The amp is the same and according to the theory I've read it should be as good or better, but to me it sounds "harsher" and more "clinical".
FLAC is lossless.  If you rip a CD to FLAC, the decompressed data from the FLAC is identical to the data on the CD (assuming no errors during ripping).  It's possible that you have a noisy soundcard (if you have an analog connection).  You may have configured the soundcard/driver for some effect processing???  There is also a good chance that the audio is being resampled, but this is usually inaudible.   

Quote
I was running Vista and just listening to Internet Radio and it sounded quite nice, but now the music doesn't sound as "musical"!!! Surely, the Internet Radio was a lower bit rate and therefore my FLAC files should sound much better? What am I not understanding?
  A low bitrate doesn't always sound worse than the original!  With most music, a lossy MP3 (at a high-enough bitrate) can sound identical to the lossless original.  Dolby AC3 is lossy, and dolby 5.1 surround can sound fantastic!


* The USB connection may allow you to control your amp from the computer, which might be an advantage if you want to use that feature.

Connecting amp to PC

Reply #2 –
Quote from: LeoL on
1. Which connection type is best and why? Digital optical, digital coax or USB? My amp can accept all three but the amp manual gives no guidance on which to use.


Optical won't contribute to any potential  ground loop problem as there's no conducting connection.

As the prior poster said, the coax cable is cheaper, but optical is something to try if you have a hum problem.

Connecting amp to PC

Reply #3 –
Quote from: LeoL on
I guess this topic has been covered before but I'm getting so many unrelated topics when I do a keyword search. Could someone please give me some advice on the best way of connecting my PC to my amp. Specifically I'm interested in:

1. Which connection type is best and why? Digital optical, digital coax or USB? My amp can accept all three but the amp manual gives no guidance on which to use.


Optical - avoids grounding problems. Grounding problems with a digital line won't cause hum, but can cause jitter.

Quote
2. Is there any advantage of using a digital connection on a soundcard rather than the ones on the motherboard? I understand there is an advantage if using analogue outputs but does the same logic apply with digital connections? Or is it just "bits" of data on a digital connection?


All proper digital interfaces transmit the same data. Doesn't matter whether they come from onboard or outboard.

Connecting amp to PC

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
All proper digital interfaces transmit the same data. Doesn't matter whether they come from onboard or outboard.

What if one does a horrible job resampling (say 44.1kHz to 48kHz) while the other does not?

Connecting amp to PC

Reply #5 –
Which receiver is this that can take USB from a computer? It may take PCM or it might be its own audio device with its own features.

Connecting amp to PC

Reply #6 –
Quote from: andy o on
Which receiver is this that can take USB from a computer? It may take PCM or it might be its own audio device with its own features.

I'm using a Cyrus amp with USB input. To my computer it appears as a sound card but I don't understand any of the technical details. It also has digital coax, digital optical and analogue inputs. At the moment I only have a digital coax connection connected as it was the only lead that could reach. It is all new to me so I'm just experimenting at the moment. When I first connected it I got a terrible sound coming through the speakers along with the music. That turned out to be the wrong driver installed by Windows 7 and that prompted me to wonder what else is wrong.

Connecting amp to PC

Reply #7 –
Quote from: greynol on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
All proper digital interfaces transmit the same data. Doesn't matter whether they come from onboard or outboard.

What if one does a horrible job resampling (say 44.1kHz to 48kHz) while the other does not?


A digital output that resamples without being asked to is not a  "proper digital interface".

Connecting amp to PC

Reply #8 –
Quote from: LeoL on
Quote from: andy o on
Which receiver is this that can take USB from a computer? It may take PCM or it might be its own audio device with its own features.

I'm using a Cyrus amp with USB input. To my computer it appears as a sound card but I don't understand any of the technical details. It also has digital coax, digital optical and analogue inputs. At the moment I only have a digital coax connection connected as it was the only lead that could reach. It is all new to me so I'm just experimenting at the moment. When I first connected it I got a terrible sound coming through the speakers along with the music. That turned out to be the wrong driver installed by Windows 7 and that prompted me to wonder what else is wrong.


Probably nothing else is wrong.

You just experienced one of the nice things about digital. If digital is wrong at all, it is usually terrible. If digital seems right, it probably is.

Connecting amp to PC

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
A digital output that resamples without being asked to is not a  "proper digital interface".

If your stick shift is missing its knob then you're not driving a proper car.

Answer to LeoL regarding possible differences in digital output between two different sound devices (probably the one he's looking for), yes there can be differences and one may be more advantageous that then other.  Hopefully it's a bit more useful than saying there is no difference so long as both are proper (assuming we all know what are the requirements for something to be proper).

Connecting amp to PC

Reply #10 –
The differences between USB and Toslink can be dramatic.
Small wonder, it is a computer so all kind of DSP can be applied.
E.g. if the configuration of the USB is not set to full range speakers but to desktop, it sure will differ from Toslink.
If one is set to 16/44 (CD quality) and the other upsamples to 24/192, again you might hear a difference.
Even if all the playback devices have the same settings, there might be an audible difference.
In case of coax you have SPDIF over a electrical connection, in case of Toslink it is SPDIF over optical so no electrical connection but some optocouplers in the signal path, in case of USB you have a totally different protocol and two different electrical connections (power and data).
As the implementations are totally different, it is possible that they do sound different.

Which one to use?
Fortunately the answer is very simple, compare them in a listening test.

WASAPI is Microsoft’s own ASIO, it talks straight to the soundcard if set to exclusive mode.
In shared mode it still uses the windows audio engine.
WASAPI in exclusive mode allows you to play all audio at its native sample rate (if your audio device supports this rate).
In exclusive mode it bypasses the Windows audio engine entirely, no mixing and no resampling will take place.
As a consequence, only 1 and only 1 audio stream is playing.
Another consequence is that what the media player is sending to the soundcard must exactly match the capabilities of the sound card.

As you have Foobar you can compare DS (Direct Sound, using the audio engine) and WASAPI (bypassing the audio engine). If you do hear a difference, choose the one you like best. If you don't, stick to DS for hassle free audio.
A bit more on configuring Win7 audio: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/.../AudioPanel.htm

TheWellTemperedComputer.com