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Topic: Delivery of a "special edition" project (Read 4693 times) previous topic - next topic
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Delivery of a "special edition" project

Hello all,

I have a retail product delivery media question I would like your collective opinions on.  Before I ask it, I would like to clearly state that I have been at HA long enough to know that there is essentially no scientifically verifiable qualitative perception difference between 44.1k/16 bit audio and any of the higher resolution formats at normal listening levels.  I get it.

Still, enough consumers believe that higher resolutions are "better" that releasing a project in such formats might be advantageous from strictly a marketing perspective.  Forgive me if that sounds like I am a willing participant in audiophile misconceptions, but I just want to feed my family!

Having said all that, I would like to offer my band's next big project (nearly two hours of music) in a way that meets the following criteria:

1) I would like to deliver the material uncompressed AIFFs @ 96k/24 bit
2) I would like it all to fit on ONE disc if possible
3) I would like the songs to be easily imported into iTunes or other jukebox software
4) I would also like to include a PDF on the disc with additional information about the project

DVD-A is out--it can play on a DVD player, but songs cannot be easily imported into iTunes (they have to ripped via 3rd party software). SACD is even more finicky and esoteric.

What about simply burning standard AIFF files and the PDF on a disk as a "data DVD"? You couldn't play the disc on a standard CD player, but the files could be easily played from any computer with a DVD drive and iTunes. Also, some DVD players might still be able to play the tracks straight off the disc.

For a "special edition" project, would using a data DVD make sense as a retail delivery media?  If not, why not?  What would you recommend instead?

Delivery of a "special edition" project

Reply #1 –
If you realy like to hit on the itunes user base, why no use of the new apple lp format (the properitary thing, that come out in the last days)? You´d had a) easy import to itunes b) Cover and everything else needed, like videos, lyrics e.g. c) One of the first LP Files out there

On the other side: You need the apple producer, i think, to create such a file and which specifications are supported - no one knows exactly.

Delivery of a "special edition" project

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Grunpfnul on
If you realy like to hit on the itunes user base, why no use of the new apple lp format (the properitary thing, that come out in the last days)? You´d had a) easy import to itunes b) Cover and everything else needed, like videos, lyrics e.g. c) One of the first LP Files out there

On the other side: You need the apple producer, i think, to create such a file and which specifications are supported - no one knows exactly.

That is a fantastic idea, actually.  I can't seem to find out exactly how you do that, though.  Not a lot of details available yet.  I wonder if the format will be open enough to permit encoding it on a data DVD instead of just on the iTunes Store.

Delivery of a "special edition" project

Reply #3 –
Quote
What about simply burning standard AIFF files and the PDF on a disk as a "data DVD"?
That sounds like a good idea, but how about a combination of "raw" audio files, and a playable DVD? (The DVD player will generally ignore additional files that are not inside the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders.)

I think most people buying a physical disc expect to be able to play it.  Are you packaging this along with a regular CD? 

As you may know, some DVD players can't play DVD-Audio (mine can't).  The solution is usually to include both DVD-Audio, and an audio-only "video" formatted program (perhaps with AC3 audio).  I have a Ray Orbison DVD-Audio that I can't play at all (it came packaged with a video DVD), and I have The Beatles Love DVD (audio only), and although my DVD player can't play the high-resolution DVD-Audio tracks, it can play the Dolby AC3 surround tracks.

Also, there is more marketing appeal for the DVD if it has a surround sound mix (if appropriate for the type of music).  I can't hear the difference with 24/96, but I can hear the difference with surround! 

If I was in charge of marketing I would like to see three formats:  High-rez DVD-Audio, "video DVD" with AC3, and AIFF (or WAV)...  perhaps more options if it's surround sound, and maybe even MP3 thrown-in for compatibility with "everything".  If this won't all fit on one DVD (which it might not if it's multi-channel), I'd make it a 2-disc pack.

Delivery of a "special edition" project

Reply #4 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
Quote
What about simply burning standard AIFF files and the PDF on a disk as a "data DVD"?
That sounds like a good idea, but how about a combination of "raw" audio files, and a playable DVD? (The DVD player will generally ignore additional files that are not inside the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders.)

I think most people buying a physical disc expect to be able to play it.  Are you packaging this along with a regular CD? 

As you may know, some DVD players can't play DVD-Audio (mine can't).  The solution is usually to include both DVD-Audio, and an audio-only "video" formatted program (perhaps with AC3 audio).  I have a Ray Orbison DVD-Audio that I can't play at all (it came packaged with a video DVD), and I have The Beatles Love DVD (audio only), and although my DVD player can't play the high-resolution DVD-Audio tracks, it can play the Dolby AC3 surround tracks.

Also, there is more marketing appeal for the DVD if it has a surround sound mix (if appropriate for the type of music).  I can't hear the difference with 24/96, but I can hear the difference with surround! 

If I was in charge of marketing I would like to see three formats:  High-rez DVD-Audio, "video DVD" with AC3, and AIFF (or WAV)...  perhaps more options if it's surround sound, and maybe even MP3 thrown-in for compatibility with "everything".  If this won't all fit on one DVD (which it might not if it's multi-channel), I'd make it a 2-disc pack.

Great reply.

I could easily use A. Pack (now part of Compressor in FCPS) to make an AC3 version that, coupled with just a still image (or a black screen), would totally work in any DVD player.  I suppose that would compel me to do a 5.1 surround mix for the AC3 version.  It would be cool to author in the Apple LP format for smooth iTunes integration--if they allow for higher res file sizes/formats.  Or I can just follow your advice and put the raw stereo files and accompanying .pdfs on the DVD outside the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders.  If I stayed with just stereo mixes, or maybe encoding the AC3 in 2.1, I bet I could get it all on one DVD.

Delivery of a "special edition" project

Reply #5 –
I found this posting around here, after i searched a while too on the web for specifications and tools for iTunes LP - Google is a mess whit exact results, but i  found 30k and plus sites, from where i can buy something.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....c=74744&hl=

So it seems that the LP format is no compiled thing, just a .zip file, filled with html, css and javascript. How much ajax it includes? No idea, but i think a lot.

Maybe an interesting thread too (seems to be in movement):
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?t...t=0&start=0

I guess it will be possible to embed apple lossless here, so you could archive your goals and could create a very unique special version for your customers  :-)


Delivery of a "special edition" project

Reply #6 –
Why not just release it in various lossless formats (FLAC, WMA, ALAC etc) online? We have one record company in Denmark doing this already, offering high-res audio in these formats.
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

Delivery of a "special edition" project

Reply #7 –
BTW, usual DVD-video dics can contain 96k/24bit/stereo track.
 

Delivery of a "special edition" project

Reply #8 –
Quote from: odyssey on
Why not just release it in various lossless formats (FLAC, WMA, ALAC etc) online? We have one record company in Denmark doing this already, offering high-res audio in these formats.

Yeah, I agree. Releasing it as a download yields a much higher profit margin, meaning a lower risk for you. DVDs are much more expensive to manufacture than just setting up a download service.

PS: I would suggest a two-way strategy. A limited edition DVD version with all kinds of goodies, and a regular download version that includes most of the content of the DVD, except for the parts that are DVD specific.