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Topic: Android and Hi Rez Audio (Read 7699 times) previous topic - next topic
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Android and Hi Rez Audio

What is current wisdom about high rez audio and Android?  (that Is besides the obvious - it gives no audible benefit)

Is there any way to get a > 22 KHz, > 16 bit resolution  output from a 24/96 wav file , either analog (headphone jack) or digital (USB or HDMI)?

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #1 –
afaik all samsung flagship phones from galaxy s5 and on, and their note phablets from the 3rd one and on, play hi-rez as it is with their native music app.

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
What is current wisdom about high rez audio and Android?  (that Is besides the obvious - it gives no audible benefit)

Is there any way to get a > 22 KHz, > 16 bit resolution  output from a 24/96 wav file , either analog (headphone jack) or digital (USB or HDMI)?

Android has been "hires" capable since Android 5.0 (I think), "hires" playback depends on the hardware itself.

My Huawei P8 Lite is not "hires" capable (16/48). 24/96 can be played back but is resampled on-the-fly (don't know if the OS does the resampling or the app). Connected to an amp/RCA input, measurements are decent, with headphones it gets worse (especially channel separation and IMD). Gain is disappointing, IEMs might work but bigger, less sensitive headphones like the HD-380 Pro don't get loud enough with dynamic material. I would connect my FiiO E07K via USB but the phone cannot do USB-OTG (which you would need for routing audio).

My husband has a tablet from Samsung, Galaxy Tab S2 8.0. That one is "hires" capable (up to 192 kHz, not advertised as such). Measurements are very decent, even the headphone amp performs well. USB-OTG works, too.

I want the Huawei P9 which is supposed to have a seperate IC for headphone amping/converting purposes. Either that or Huawei embeds all of the audio circuitry into the SoC (like all others do, I just don't know if Huawei does the same since they manufacture their own SoCs). Huawei claims "hires" capability but I'm much more interested in a better (& louder) headphone amp that won't produce impedance related frequency deviations, less distortions, etc. so that I can sell the FiiOs I bought.

Sadly, a database where measured quality of the built-in amps is shown, doesn't exist. Would be nice, especially if one doesn't want to use clunky, stupid, additional hardware like the aformentioned FiiOs.
marlene-d.blogspot.com

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Cavaille on
Sadly, a database where measured quality of the built-in amps is shown, doesn't exist. Would be nice, especially if one doesn't want to use clunky, stupid, additional hardware like the aformentioned FiiOs.

gsmarena always measure the audio performance of the phones they review (the output from the headphone jacks, specifically), although not the in built headphone amp power output.

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #4 –
Quote from: evgenetic on
gsmarena always measure the audio performance of the phones they review (the output from the headphone jacks, specifically), although not the in built headphone amp power output.

Yeah, I know them. But they don't say if they switch off "signal enhancements" companies like to use to pepper the output with, their plots sometimes contain visible signs of resampling (and in some cases it appears to depend on the price of the to-be-reviewed smartphone). Also, they never make clear if it's an error that caused the resampling (which could lead to further distortions not originally produced by the phone), the phone itself or the app that was used. Worse, in some cases, their results just don't add up. Other results I've seen online (for example by Archimago) are either better or worse. Sometimes by insignificant amounts - but sometimes not. So I don't trust GSMarena in the slightest.
marlene-d.blogspot.com

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #5 –
Quote from: evgenetic on
afaik all samsung flagship phones from galaxy s5 and on, and their note phablets from the 3rd one and on, play hi-rez as it is with their native music app.

Just playing hi rez seems to be irrelevant to the question if the playing involves downsampling to say, 16/44.

For example my Nvidia Shield K1 tablet is highly touted as being hi rez, but if I play 24/96 test signal files with say, the Google Play Music app, downsampling to 16/44 is noticeable as a brick wall low pass filter starting at about 20 KHz.  It does a very nice job of 16/44 and sounds great but I question the accuracy of the spec.

I have a Samsung S5 that I need to test. It also seems to sound great. But based on my readings, I have no great expectations for reproducing > 44 KHz sampling.

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #6 –
i justed tested my own note 4 myself.
i generated white noise in audacity when the project was set to 192khz sampling rate.  saved the file to my note while changing the bit depth to 24 bits. connected the headphone jack of the note to the line in on my xonar stx soundcard, and recorded the playback of the noise file. here's the freq analysis of the recorded file:

i think it looks legit, doesn't it?

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #7 –
Quote from: evgenetic on
i justed tested my own note 4 myself.
i generated white noise in audacity when the project was set to 192khz sampling rate.  saved the file to my note while changing the bit depth to 24 bits. connected the headphone jack of the note to the line in on my xonar stx soundcard, and recorded the playback of the noise file. here's the freq analysis of the recorded file:

i think it looks legit, doesn't it?

I'm convinced!
What music player did you use?

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #8 –
the native samsung one, it's simply called "Music". it also gives you an indication when hi res file is being played with the "UHQ" symbol.

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #9 –
Quote from: evgenetic on
the native samsung one, it's simply called "Music". it also gives you an indication when hi res file is being played with the "UHQ" symbol.

This detail seems highly helpful. We'll see how it works on an S5 once it gets charged back up.

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #10 –
Some high end Chinese models, and high-end Samsung and LG (particularly LG, which bundle earphones called quadbeat are excellent enough that they sell as standalone products.) Are all capable of high-res.

Here are some good measurements done by Seeko.

https://www.seeko.co.kr/zboard4/zboard.php?id=m_device&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=74

https://www.seeko.co.kr/zboard4/zboard.php?id=m_device&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=58

https://www.seeko.co.kr/zboard4/zboard.php?id=m_device&page=2&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=51

https://www.seeko.co.kr/zboard4/zboard.php?id=m_device&page=2&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=52

In average, output impedance of Samsung ones is about 2.7~2.8 ohms, and LG G5 with B&O module is mere 0.18 ohm.


Basically, there is high chance your Samsung/LG smartphone sounds far better than so called audiophile DAPs in many cases.

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #11 –
I have a Samsung S5 and it handles 24/96 natively with no problem.  My iPod Classic can't even do that...
JXL

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #12 –
Quote from: JunkieXL on
I have a Samsung S5 and it handles 24/96 natively with no problem.  My iPod Classic can't even do that...
JXL

Handling it can mean merely downsampling. Reproducing it fully is a relevant additional step.

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: JunkieXL on
I have a Samsung S5 and it handles 24/96 natively with no problem.  My iPod Classic can't even do that...
JXL

Handling it can mean merely downsampling. Reproducing it fully is a relevant additional step.

As far as I remember, it is good to use music playback app from the smartphone manufacturer if for high-res music. For example, there is a "Samsung Music" which are made for Samsung smartphone.

For Samsung's case, for Snapdragon version (i.e sold in US) it uses Snapdraogn chip's inner dac, aqstic.

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/features/aqstic

For LG, it uses ESS Sabre.

Re: Android and Hi Rez Audio

Reply #14 –
Quote from: wnmnkh on
Some high end Chinese models, and high-end Samsung and LG (particularly LG, which bundle earphones called quadbeat are excellent enough that they sell as standalone products.) Are all capable of high-res.

Here are some good measurements done by Seeko.

https://www.seeko.co.kr/zboard4/zboard.php?id=m_device&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=74

https://www.seeko.co.kr/zboard4/zboard.php?id=m_device&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=58

https://www.seeko.co.kr/zboard4/zboard.php?id=m_device&page=2&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=51

https://www.seeko.co.kr/zboard4/zboard.php?id=m_device&page=2&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=off&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=52

In average, output impedance of Samsung ones is about 2.7~2.8 ohms, and LG G5 with B&O module is mere 0.18 ohm.


Basically, there is high chance your Samsung/LG smartphone sounds far better than so called audiophile DAPs in many cases.

As long as the audiophile DAC is designed for flat, smooth response out to 18k or so, they should be indistinguishable.  These phone people have the source impedance issue under pretty fair control - 2-ish ohms is IMO on the high side of acceptable.   Android phones have a hidden advantage as music players - there is a built-in octave equalizer in later versions of Android that can remove many audible bumps or dips, either acoustic or due to loading.  Not all Android phones can use internal uSD cards, but many that do handle 192 GB chips which is a lot of music in any reasonable format.

The spec sheet for the sound chip they allege they use seems very impressive: https://developer.qualcomm.com/download/sd600/wcd9311-audio-codec-device-specification.pdf

8 in, 8 out, up to 192 KHz sampling and > 100 dB  THD+SNR.