I have an iriver Clix2, and I can't decide what audio format to use for encoding my music albums.
I really like .ogg, both the quality and the open source philosophy, unfortunately i can't use it as it has no support for embedded album artwork and I can't synchronize ogg files with Windows Media Player 11.
So, I have to choose between mp3 and wma (std), as they both work well with WMP and have album artwork support. I know that theoretically wma provides better quality than mp3 at the same bitrate, but Microsoft i don't really trust Microsoft's claims.
My question is, would a WMA file at 160kbps, deliver the same quality as an mp3 at 192kbps?

You should be able to synchronize your ogg file with WMP if you install the ogg codecs (http://www.normsoft.com/kb/idx/19/115/article/) Don't know if this works with WMP 11 since I would not touch WMP even with gloves on.  Why do you need to sync it with WMP in the first place? I have an iRiver S10 and all I need is an empty usb port and it shows up as 2GB flash drive. Can it be any easier?

If you look around you will see that WMA (std) is out-performed by LAME at the same bit-rate (128kbps or higher, unfortunately this is the newest comparison I could find: http://www.rjamorim.com/test/multiformat128/results.html) so if I where you I would definitely go for mp3.

BTW, It seems like ogg vorbis does support album art (http://www.vorbis.com/faq/#container http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....48386&st=0) so why not settle for the best? 

Apparently this program supports album art in ogg files http://www.softpointer.com/AudioShell.htm

/Kef

Note: -V5 (130 k) is already stressing many peoples hearing for the last few years.

I have an iRiver S10 and all I need is an empty usb port and it shows up as 2GB flash drive. Can it be any easier?

BTW, It seems like ogg vorbis does support album art (http://www.vorbis.com/faq/#container http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....48386&st=0) so why not settle for the best? 

Not in this case, because the Clix2 doesn't get its internal database updated, if files are transferred via the desktop environment. This forces one to search for songs using directory trees instead of tags, making the whole thing comparably uncomfortable. But going for Windows Media Player still isn't a good idea, due to iRiver's own plus 3 software supporting Vorbis transferring very well. I use it for managing the Clix2 myself.

Quote from: shadowking on 2007-08-17 16:04:27

Note: -V5 (130 k) is already stressing many peoples hearing for the last few years.

I assume that what you meant to say is that most people are satisfied with -V5 quality and find it difficult to distinguish from the original.

... Oh ... just one more question ... Lame 3.97 or 3.85b5?

I would not touch WMP even with gloves on.

wmapro (not std) would do better than ogg, at least at low bitrates, judging from the recent test.  I'd go with lame mp3 over wma standard, because better quality and wider compatibility.  (note wmapro is less widely supported than wma std.  wmapro is supported on cellphones running windows mobile and on windows of course, but not all that much more.)  You may want to archive with a lossless format (wma lossless or flac).

Vorbis and WMAPro were statistically tied (depending on who you ask). Also, 80 kbps is also a "low bitrate" and it has already been ABX'd by several golden-eared members here (in the recent past) as being superior (perhaps not statistically, however) to all the others. And let's not forget the older multiformat 128 kbps listening test conducted here where Vorbis was again at the top of the pack.

Quote from: Kef on 2007-08-17 16:43:33

You should be able to synchronize your ogg file with WMP if you install the ogg codecs (http://www.normsoft.com/kb/idx/19/115/article/) Don't know if this works with WMP 11 since I would not touch WMP even with gloves on.  Why do you need to sync it with WMP in the first place? I have an iRiver S10 and all I need is an empty usb port and it shows up as 2GB flash drive. Can it be any easier?

If you look around you will see that WMA (std) is out-performed by LAME at the same bit-rate (128kbps or higher, unfortunately this is the newest comparison I could find: http://www.rjamorim.com/test/multiformat128/results.html) so if I where you I would definitely go for mp3.

BTW, It seems like ogg vorbis does support album art (http://www.vorbis.com/faq/#container http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....48386&st=0) so why not settle for the best? 

Apparently this program supports album art in ogg files http://www.softpointer.com/AudioShell.htm

/Kef

Unfortunately Clix2 has problems with m3u playlists, and the only way to get playlists to work is to use the device in MTP mode, so I need to synchronize it with Windows Media Player. I tried to install the ogg directshow filters, but WMP will transcode the ogg files to wma when synchronizing. I allready use Tag&Rename but unfortunately if I embed an artwork in an ogg file, the Clix will not recognize the tag at all (strange, as the file plays without problems, and Tag&Rename does not write an ID3 tag, but just a vorbis comment). The same happens when using J.River Media Center.

My question is, would a WMA file at 160kbps, deliver the same quality as an mp3 at 192kbps?

IIRC there is a setting within WMP where you can tell it not to transcode.  It has been two years since I last used it to sync with a portable so I can't give you any guidance on how to find it.

Why no WMA@192?
Same size, but better quality!

Quote from: dark_myself on 2007-08-17 15:49:23

My question is, would a WMA file at 160kbps, deliver the same quality as an mp3 at 192kbps?

Why no WMA@192?
Same size, but better quality!