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Topic: Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br (Read 6588 times) previous topic - next topic
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Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br

A way to get lossless music from an audio CD with a very little bitrate more or less the
same of a good encoded mp3

Let's start from that:

Standard Audio Tracks Format is 44.100Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels, that means
44.100*16*2=1.411.200 bits/s.

CDs are divided in sectors: every second of music = 75 sectors.
Programs like ISO Buster can show you every sectors of a cd and gives you the possibity to
save that in rtf format (that's quite easy to read with programs like Word); here you can
see an example of it:

LBA :8819

0000 : B3 F8 A7 F9 3A F9 33 FE  D6 F9 65 03 9A FA 54 09  ....:.3...e...T.
0010 : 45 FB 84 10 B4 FB 44 17  02 FC F7 1B D2 FB FF 1D  E.....D.........
0020 : 38 FB 85 1D 39 FA C5 1A  38 F9 62 16 EC F7 61 11  8...9...8.b...a.
0030 : D8 F6 2D 0C 31 F6 C7 07  D0 F5 3C 04 0B F6 FF 00  ..-.1.....<.....
0040 : 1A F7 F3 FE 85 F8 99 FE  1F FA DB FF 55 FB 8F 02  ............U...
0050 : F2 FB 81 06 0F FC 96 0A  4F FB 89 0E 43 FA 00 12  ........O...C...
0060 : A8 F8 F9 13 AE F6 74 14  70 F4 A7 13 02 F2 8B 12  ......t.p.......
0070 : A9 EF 39 11 9E ED 0E 0F  93 EC EF 0D 9A EC 09 0E  ..9.............
0080 : 93 ED EE 0E 58 EF C4 0F  B6 F1 3C 10 2C F4 57 11  ....X.....<.,.W.
0090 : 65 F6 3B 13 42 F8 6C 13  9E F9 34 13 49 FA F9 11  e.;.B.l...4.I...
00A0 : 49 FA B9 0F CC F9 56 0C  1F F9 E5 07 42 F8 08 03  I.....V.....B...
00B0 : E1 F6 44 FE 93 F5 43 FA  E4 F4 56 F7 D2 F4 5B F7  ..D...C...V...[.
00C0 : 81 F5 A0 F9 9D F6 2F FD  3B F8 4B 01 3A FA B3 05  ....../.;.K.:...
00D0 : 00 FC 00 0A AA FD 7B 0D  E8 FE DC 0F 77 FF 02 11  ......{.....w...
00E0 : 9E FF DA 10 8B FF 8B 0F  08 FF AC 0D 8D FE 48 0A  ..............H.
00F0 : 60 FE 19 05 0D FE 9F FF  20 FE EB F9 63 FE 31 F6  `....... ...c.1.
0100 : 2F FF 24 F3 C1 00 B1 F1  6E 02 FB F2 FE 03 07 F6  /.$.....n.......
0110 : 1C 05 A9 F8 74 05 D3 FA  BC 05 21 FC 77 05 5F FD  ....t.....!.w._.
0120 : 0C 05 D4 FD 7A 04 5B FE  F6 03 F0 FE 53 03 CC FE  ....z.[.....S...
0130 : B6 02 47 FD 05 02 F3 FA  5B 01 99 F8 B5 00 B4 F5  ..G.....[.......
0140 : CD 00 0C F3 86 01 13 F1  CA 02 95 F0 47 04 14 F1  ............G...
0150 : 50 05 D0 F1 2C 06 2B F1  A2 06 E7 EF 64 07 5E EE  P...,.+.....d.^.
0160 : C0 07 4C ED 02 08 CD EC  87 08 E4 EC 2D 09 02 EE  ..L.........-...
0170 : C9 09 8B EF F3 09 F3 F1  4A 0A A9 F4 AF 0A 9E F7  ........J.......
0180 : 42 0B CE F9 A1 0B 53 FC  B7 0B 28 FF 6D 0B 0A 02  B.....S...(.m...
0190 : AB 0A 0F 04 A5 09 EC 04  75 08 74 04 EC 06 09 03  ........u.t.....
01A0 : 84 05 90 00 86 04 9D FD  59 04 18 FA B4 04 2F F7  ........Y...../.
01B0 : 6F 05 D2 F4 CF 05 A0 F3  2E 06 E2 F2 68 06 84 F2  o...........h...
01C0 : 2B 06 13 F2 A2 05 3A F1  D7 04 F3 F0 87 03 DD F0  +.....:.........
01D0 : F9 01 C0 F0 FD FF 07 F1  1A FE 94 F1 E9 FB 39 F2  ..............9.
01E0 : F8 F9 68 F2 A5 F8 2F F2  5D F8 A4 F2 FF F8 82 F3  ..h.../.].......
01F0 : 19 FA 3E F5 C2 FB A1 F7  83 FD CC FA 76 FF 19 FE  ..>.........v...
0200 : 4A 01 59 00 E8 02 08 02  0A 04 7D 02 7E 04 A1 01  J.Y.......}.~...
0210 : 9F 04 44 FF 2D 04 3C FC  28 03 0A F9 C7 01 02 F6  ..D.-.<.(.......
0220 : 83 00 32 F3 D5 FF CF F0  E5 FF C3 EF 61 00 B4 F0  ..2.........a...
0230 : 96 01 36 F3 7D 03 52 F7  66 05 D8 FC 4A 07 3D 02  ..6.}.R.f...J.=.
0240 : D0 08 1A 08 9E 09 33 0D  7E 09 C0 10 A1 08 2C 12  ......3.~.....,.
0250 : 04 07 43 11 F8 04 34 0E  22 02 20 0A 33 FF AF 04  ..C...4.". .3...
0260 : 99 FC 3A FF 85 FA 18 FB  64 F9 F1 F7 44 F9 42 F6  ..:.....d...D.B.
0270 : DA F9 DF F5 05 FB AD F6  92 FC E2 F8 5A FE 66 FC  ............Z.f.
0280 : EB FF C4 00 C0 00 FD 05  A1 00 56 0A D1 FF E7 0C  ..........V.....
0290 : 70 FE B7 0D 90 FC 11 0C  23 FA FB 08 CC F7 43 05  p.......#.....C.
02A0 : 70 F5 4F 01 59 F3 B3 FD  C5 F1 D8 FA FB F0 A2 F9  p.O.Y...........
02B0 : ED F0 76 FA CA F1 46 FC  1E F3 FE FF CE F4 58 04  ..v...F.......X.
02C0 : B9 F6 41 09 05 F9 38 0D  49 FB B6 10 F9 FC A5 12  ..A...8.I.......
02D0 : 6B FD B5 12 CD FC AC 0F  BF FB D9 0A C0 FA 79 05  k.............y.
02E0 : 0E FA D8 00 F6 F9 F9 FC  DA F9 45 FB F3 F9 8A FA  ..........E.....
02F0 : 4A FA 59 FB 49 FB 0B FE  13 FD 74 02 73 FF 2E 08  J.Y.I.....t.s...
0300 : DE 01 19 0E 33 04 3F 14  F8 05 31 19 5A 07 14 1C  ....3.?...1.Z...
0310 : D4 07 A7 1C 5D 07 A3 1A  5F 06 37 16 1F 05 AF 10  ....]..._.7.....
0320 : 15 04 B2 0A DD 03 F2 04  C0 03 35 00 09 04 BC FC  ..........5.....
0330 : 4A 04 56 FA BA 04 1E F9  44 05 A1 F9 A5 05 20 FC  J.V.....D..... .
0340 : A7 06 5A 00 F4 07 F2 05  01 09 BD 0B BB 09 6A 0F  ..Z...........j.
0350 : EE 09 5E 10 A6 09 D7 0E  DC 08 2A 0C C2 07 75 08  ..^.......*...u.
0360 : E5 06 46 04 40 06 BC 00  EB 05 FA FD C5 05 4B FC  ..F.@.........K.
0370 : 0E 06 69 FB 67 06 58 FB  C5 06 CB FB 3C 07 EE FC  ..i.g.X.....<...
0380 : 15 08 F5 FE 7A 09 CD 01  1F 0B D9 04 AB 0C F6 05  ....z...........
0390 : E3 0D 02 06 4B 0E 78 04  A8 0E E1 01 B0 0E 18 FF  ....K.x.........
03A0 : 41 0E 0E FC 6F 0D 3B F9  F4 0B AF F7 A6 0A 7A F6  A...o.;.......z.
03B0 : 9A 09 A4 F6 C0 08 48 F8  16 08 C9 F9 CF 07 B7 FB  ......H.........
03C0 : DB 06 E3 FD 02 06 5A FF  20 05 08 00 3A 04 50 00  ......Z. ...:.P.
03D0 : 7C 03 46 00 B3 02 44 00  35 02 4B FF 23 02 0D FE  |.F...D.5.K.#...
03E0 : E6 01 D3 FC 79 01 AF FA  49 00 DB F8 F0 FE 71 F6  ....y...I.....q.
03F0 : AB FD 8E F4 9B FC 19 F5  DD FB 9F F6 56 FB 16 F9  ............V...
0400 : FD FA A4 FA 5B FA F8 FA  89 F9 48 F9 8E F8 69 F6  ....[.....H...i.
0410 : E0 F7 EA F3 CE F7 9C F2  86 F8 A0 F1 B3 F9 2B F1  ..............+.
0420 : FB FA 84 F1 23 FC 7D F2  C7 FC BA F3 1D FD F0 F4  ....#.}.........
0430 : 14 FD 82 F6 52 FD D7 F8  A4 FD 2D FC CB FD 72 FF  ....R.....-...r.
0440 : 0B FE BC 01 2D FE 35 02  98 FE C6 00 D1 FE 07 FE  ....-.5.........
0450 : 34 FF 5A FA B7 FF 19 F7  AF 00 FF F5 D8 01 20 F7  4.Z........... .
0460 : 3E 03 45 FA 7C 04 4F FE  13 05 00 02 E3 04 3F 05  >.E.|.O.......?.
0470 : 4F 04 76 08 A0 03 73 0B  F4 02 1C 0E 6A 02 8D 10  O.v...s.....j...
0480 : 27 02 F5 11 9D 01 12 13  F7 00 8B 12 36 00 B3 10  '...........6...
0490 : 53 FF B1 0D DC FE 87 09  25 FF B1 05 AA FF 80 03  S.......%.......
04A0 : BE 00 F2 03 62 01 AC 06  BC 01 16 0A D7 01 D6 0D  ....b...........
04B0 : 86 01 3A 12 32 01 15 16  71 00 FC 18 6A FF 47 1A  ..:.2...q...j.G.
04C0 : C3 FD A5 19 0A FC DA 17  C3 F9 78 14 81 F7 93 10  ..........x.....
04D0 : D2 F5 1F 0C F1 F4 3A 08  B9 F4 12 05 16 F5 92 02  ......:.........
04E0 : FB F5 11 01 CB F6 E9 01  B0 F7 69 04 9B F8 76 09  ..........i...v.
04F0 : 88 F9 70 0F 49 FA A6 14  A5 FA 9F 17 A6 FA 14 18  ..p.I...........
0500 : EC F9 69 16 CA F8 37 13  BE F7 F7 0E EB F6 49 0A  ..i...7.......I.
0510 : 70 F6 29 06 2F F6 42 02  16 F6 B4 FE 1F F6 D7 FB  p.)./.B.........
0520 : 85 F6 CF F9 A2 F6 03 F9  DF F6 B8 F9 3A F7 E6 FC  ............:...
0530 : 89 F7 7D 01 63 F8 D8 05  4A F9 77 09 51 FA 84 0B  ..}.c...J.w.Q...
0540 : B5 FA FD 0B 07 FB 6E 0A  41 FB CF 07 40 FB DE 04  ......n.A...@...
0550 : 97 FB BF 01 BD FB 41 FF  4E FC F3 FC D0 FC 7A FB  ......A.N.....z.
0560 : 0B FD A6 FA 02 FD B2 FA  BB FC F6 FA 93 FC 0A FC  ................
0570 : 6F FC B5 FD 95 FC E8 FE  A4 FC 61 00 A8 FC 4D 00  o.........a...M.
0580 : 54 FC 67 FE 48 FC 49 FB  55 FC 23 F7 25 FC 09 F2  T.g.H.I.U.#.%...
0590 : 56 FC 63 ED C7 FC 18 E9  48 FE 54 E6 10 00 36 E6  V.c.....H.T...6.
05A0 : 1E 02 E5 E7 8C 03 2D EB  87 04 E2 EE 3D 05 39 F2  ......-.....=.9.
05B0 : E3 05 8E F4 9C 06 B9 F5  7D 07 9E F6 7B 08 18 F7  ........}...{...
05C0 : 42 09 04 F7 F5 09 73 F6  8D 0A 6B F5 DC 0A FC F3  B.....s...k.....
05D0 : 14 0B 15 F2 82 0B 28 F0  DD 0B 7C EE 17 0C 22 EE  ......(...|...".
05E0 : 13 0C FA EE B6 0B 65 F1  A7 0A EF F4 9D 08 7D F8  ......e.......}.
05F0 : 65 06 24 FB 82 04 EE FC  89 03 D7 FD 4A 03 FD FD  e.$.........J...
0600 : 50 03 05 FE C5 03 2F FE  23 04 15 FE E7 04 E7 FC  P...../.#.......
0610 : 1A 06 75 FB F1 07 E6 F9  CA 09 1B F9 38 0B 01 F9  ..u.........8...
0620 : 13 0C DC F9 35 0C B2 FB  19 0B 63 FE D0 08 CC 00  ....5.....c.....
0630 : F9 05 1E 02 C1 02 3F 02  E9 FF 9B 00 CA FD 03 FE  ......?.........
0640 : 23 FC C4 FA 42 FB 7F F8  8E FA B5 F6 6B FA 10 F5  #...B.......k...
0650 : 24 FB F1 F3 CF FC 5B F3  58 FF A3 F3 29 02 0F F5  $.....[.X...)...
0660 : B2 04 27 F7 6D 06 8C F9  26 07 79 FB E8 06 0B FD  ..'.m...&.y.....
0670 : 21 06 32 FE CE 04 D4 FE  0F 03 07 FE 12 01 0E FD  !.2.............
0680 : F2 FE 4E FB F3 FC 05 F9  60 FB 9E F6 FA F9 78 F4  ..N.....`.....x.
0690 : 67 F9 82 F2 35 FA B2 F1  C8 FB 40 F2 5F FE B0 F3  g...5.....@._...
06A0 : A7 00 65 F6 4B 02 12 F9  1E 03 2F FB C4 02 1C FD  ..e.K...../.....
06B0 : 3E 02 BB FE 2D 01 E5 00  83 00 AC 02 0E 00 01 05  >...-...........
06C0 : 5C FF 59 07 60 FE E8 08  10 FD 21 09 57 FC 39 08  \.Y.`.....!.W.9.
06D0 : 10 FC C7 07 B6 FC B7 07  D1 FD BF 08 16 FF 62 0A  ..............b.
06E0 : 36 00 EB 0B ED 00 C5 0C  6F 00 A5 0D BF FE 07 0D  6.......o.......
06F0 : 73 FC B6 0B 6D FA E4 09  C6 F8 03 09 97 F7 38 09  s...m.........8.
0700 : 38 F6 00 0A EC F4 E4 09  92 F3 73 09 7E F2 61 09  8.........s.~.a.
0710 : 65 F2 8B 09 1E F3 B4 0A  E1 F4 5B 0C 39 F7 29 0F  e.........[.9.).
0720 : 17 FA 0A 12 BC FC 74 14  EC FE 4B 15 6F 00 B7 14  ......t...K.o...
0730 : 5E 01 9B 12 4D 02 28 10  2A 03 C6 0E EF 03 BA 0D  ^...M.(.*.......
0740 : CF 03 1F 0D CE 02 5D 0C  34 01 A3 0B 88 FF 31 0B  ......].4.....1.
0750 : 9E FD 74 0A 05 FC 2C 0A  D3 FA EE 09 62 FA 4D 0A  ..t...,.....b.M.
0760 : 7A FA E2 0A 6A FA 99 0C  72 FA 9C 0D 7E FA 02 0E  z...j...r...~...
0770 : F1 FA A9 0D D2 FB CF 0C  6F FD 1A 0C 12 FF C8 0B  ........o.......
0780 : EE 00 0D 0B A0 02 C6 0A  F4 03 44 0A F4 04 1B 09  ..........D.....
0790 : C4 05 42 08 2B 06 DC 07  08 06 37 07 3A 05 42 07  ..B.+.....7.:.B.
07A0 : E8 03 2A 06 40 02 DA 03  5B 00 01 02 B9 FE DB FF  ..*.@...[.......
07B0 : A3 FD 94 FE 58 FD 88 FD  D5 FD 8F FC 01 FF 19 FB  ....X...........
07C0 : 4E 01 91 F9 F2 03 38 F9  AE 06 D9 F9 4C 09 6D FA  N.....8.....L.m.
07D0 : 6C 0B 7F FB EC 0C F1 FC  EE 0D C5 FE 39 0E AC FF  l...........9...
07E0 : D5 0D AB FF AB 0C 55 FE  09 0B 0D FC 92 09 87 F9  ......U.........
07F0 : E1 07 DD F7 21 06 F0 F5  9B 04 65 F4 A8 03 54 F2  ....!.....e...T.
0800 : 50 03 B3 EF E6 03 46 ED  9F 04 AF EB E3 05 90 EB  P.....F.........
0810 : 4A 07 FB EC FE 07 2F F0  4E 08 D8 F3 F3 07 6A F7  J...../.N.....j.
0820 : 59 07 57 FA A0 06 9B FC  AB 05 4F FE B0 04 98 FF  Y.W.......O.....
0830 : 54 03 AF 00 26 02 D2 01  1E 01 91 02 EE 00 AC 02  T...&...........
0840 : 3E 01 44 02 78 02 8F 00  39 04 C2 FD 7F 06 F6 FA  >.D.x...9.......
0850 : 7C 08 70 F9 A7 09 0D F9  65 09 C1 F8 F2 07 0C F8  |.p.....e.......
0860 : DE 05 8E F7 4E 03 C2 F7  45 00 6F F8 E3 FC 7A F8  ....N...E.o...z.
0870 : 2D F9 E9 F8 A1 F5 CF F8  E9 F2 5F F9 8A F1 D6 FA  -........._.....
0880 : 0F F1 0C FC BA F1 11 FC  68 F3 AA FB 53 F6 B6 FA  ........h...S...
0890 : E2 F9 D6 FA 65 FD E5 FB  8F 00 80 FD 48 03 58 FF  ....e.......H.X.
08A0 : D1 05 70 00 98 07 92 01  63 08 1C 02 C9 07 53 02  ..p.....c.....S.
08B0 : 12 06 9B 01 D7 03 8C FF  86 01 0D FD 41 FF DB FA  ............A...
08C0 : 38 FD 1E F9 AB FB 75 F7  73 FA B2 F5 1A FA 28 F4  8.....u.s.....(.
08D0 : 1E FA 02 F4 E6 FA 25 F5  6B FC FF F6 9A FE 8B FA  ......%.k.......
08E0 : 48 01 EE FF C7 03 7B 05  97 05 C3 0A 2F 06 63 0F  H.....{...../.c.
08F0 : 1A 06 63 12 10 05 2F 15  86 03 27 16 F2 01 D8 15  ..c.../...'.....
0900 : 8C 00 C9 13 8B FF 5B 10  B8 FE 24 0D 70 FD 2B 0A  ......[...$.p.+.
0910 : 0B FC 21 07 B7 FA AE 04  9D F9 05 03 61 F9 49 03  ..!.........a.I.
0920 : BE F9 C5 05 88 FA 7B 0A  3C FB 69 10 66 FB 50 16  ......{.<.i.f.P.

So every sector is represented with 147 lines, each one is composed by an "index" such as
"07F0", a ":", 16 hexadecimal numbers and a text of 16 characters that are the 16
hexadecimal numbers rewritten in ASCII code (not the extended one but the 7bits-128numbers
one), anyone can see that in these series of carachters there are a lot of ".", that means
that the character coudn't be rewritten with the standard ASCII code (because the number,
translated in decimal format is between 0 and 32 or between 128 and 255).
After this short comment it's easy to see that in an audio CD the only important things to
keep in a sector are the hexadecimal numbers, everything else coud be easily recreated
with a program (indexes from 0000 to 0920 are equal in every sector, the last 16 character
are almost unuseful and easy to recreate).
At the end we can see that in every sector we have 16*147=2352 hexadecimal numbers of 2
bits, that means that at the end we have 2352*2=4704 bits that with a right program we can
reconvert it in the way ISO Buster show us the sector.

So:

4704 * 75 = 352.800 bits/s = 344,53 KBits/s !

If we think that all the hexadecimal numbers can be converted in ASCII format (the
extended one with all the 256 characters), every number will take half the space, that
means that we can have a bitrate of 344,53/2 = 172,27 KBits/s !!!.

Obviosly I'm not sure about the result of what I've written and I'm not able to create a
program that can do that, so I thought that would have been a good idea to ask you what
you think about it.

Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br

Reply #2 –
The data is not stored in this column format on the CD. They are just a way to visualize this in a human readable form.

Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br

Reply #3 –
@vize34:  You were measuring kilobits per sector, not per second.  And at 75 sectors per second...

344.53 kilobits/sector x 75 sectors/sec = 25839.75 kilobits/sec

It's always good to think of these things, and to consider new methods of audio encoding.  But I think, for now, I'll stick with FLAC, averaging ~850kbps.

Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br

Reply #4 –
Lets take a hexadecimal number. My choice is FE this time. It is 1111110 in binary system which means it is 8 bits long, not two bits long like you are claiming.

Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br

Reply #6 –
<I won't be redundant>
ruxvilti'a

Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br

Reply #7 –
Quote
Lets take a hexadecimal number. My choice is FE this time. It is 1111110 in binary system which means it is 8 bits long, not two bits long like you are claiming.

No... what I mean is that for example "FE" has 2 characters, if I write a txt file with written FE it's 2 bits because it's 2 characters... a program then will read FE and convert in real time in an 8 bits signal!

Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br

Reply #8 –
wrong, 2 byte, just try it a letter alwas has 8bits

Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br

Reply #9 –
Quote
Quote
Lets take a hexadecimal number. My choice is FE this time. It is 1111110 in binary system which means it is 8 bits long, not two bits long like you are claiming.

No... what I mean is that for example "FE" has 2 characters, if I write a txt file with written FE it's 2 bits because it's 2 characters... a program then will read FE and convert in real time in an 8 bits signal!

As kjoonlee said earlier, you're confusing bits with bytes. 1 byte = 8 bits. That text file wouldn't be two bits, it'd be two bytes; you'd actually be increasing the size from 8 bits to 16.
f to c to f to c

Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br

Reply #10 –
Ok... everybody agree that a second of a CD audio track is 1.411.200 KBits long.

Let's forget ISO Buster and how it show us every sector.

In the CD tracks are composed by binary singals as 010010101010 etc... if we theoretically convert this amount of binary signal in heaxadecimal signal this amout of data will be 4 times shorter because the number of bits used to an 8 carachters in binary will be 2 bits long... Obviously a right CODEC has to read this "2 bits information" and convert (while playing) in a normal 8 bits information...

Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br

Reply #11 –
YES MY STATEMENT IS WRONG...

excuse me to all....
 

Strange idea to get lossless music at VERY low br

Reply #13 –
vize84: honest mistake; don't worry about it :p
f to c to f to c