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Topic: WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system (Read 14610 times) previous topic - next topic
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WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

I hooked up my PC with a Azutech dts audio card and a $70 digital coax cable to my Onkyo reciever.

I am getting ready to burn my entire cd collection (about 400) and have come to the conclusion that mp3 with a good ripper at 192 will work well. 

BIQ QUESTION: I have heard good things about WMA PRO and its surround ability, including MS propaganda
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsme...lity_demos.aspx
specifically "Windows Media Audio 9 Professional vs. MP3"

I realize under 128 there is a big sound difference.  My real question is there any reason why WMA Pro (or something else) should be preferred for 5.1 listening?I will be updating my system to a tbd Aperion 5.1 speaker package and also I am considering a Pioneer Reciever that accepts WMA Pro. 

Is the wma pro a waste of time for this project?  PS I have no huge need to use with any particular portable player.  Just trying to get the best possible sound at home.  I would consider lossless if I could tell the difference vs.  192.

I appreciate your feedback.  dcat

WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

Reply #1 –
I see that your source audio is stereo, not 5.1 as I previously thought.  Since your source audio is stereo, any 5.1 listening will have to either be remuxed on the computer or you will have to use hardware (ie your receiver) and technology such as Dolby ProLogic to remux the stereo signal to 5.1.  Anyway, that shouldn't make a difference as a encoder should be relatively the same in stereo or remuxed up to 5.1 (that is if your receiver is good).

I would personally go with the Lame mp3 encoder at -V 2 --vbr-new, no need for CBR encoding whenever -V 2 encodes at VBR and provides pretty good results.  The Lame mp3 encoder will give you the quality that you need and the compatibility.  I believe that WMApro can only be played back in Windows Media Player, something that I despise for audio playback.  I also imagine that once you get up to the 192kbps+ bitrates, the differences between WMApro and Lame mp3 become slim to none.  Try conducting a blind ABX test yourself (foobar2000 can do this).  Just keep in mind that since your source audio is stereo, you are going to get stereo mp3/WMApro files that will have to be remuxed using your receiver to 5.1 for later listening.  Then again, that is if you absolutely need to listen to your audio in 5.1.

WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

Reply #2 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
I see that your source audio is stereo, not 5.1 as I previously thought.  Since your source audio is stereo, any 5.1 listening will have to either be remuxed on the computer or you will have to use hardware (ie your receiver) and technology such as Dolby ProLogic to remux the stereo signal to 5.1.  Anyway, that shouldn't make a difference as a encoder should be relatively the same in stereo or remuxed up to 5.1 (that is if your receiver is good).

I would personally go with the Lame mp3 encoder at -V 2 --vbr-new, no need for CBR encoding whenever -V 2 encodes at VBR and provides pretty good results.  The Lame mp3 encoder will give you the quality that you need and the compatibility.  I believe that WMApro can only be played back in Windows Media Player, something that I despise for audio playback.  I also imagine that once you get up to the 192kbps+ bitrates, the differences between WMApro and Lame mp3 become slim to none.  Try conducting a blind ABX test yourself (foobar2000 can do this).  Just keep in mind that since your source audio is stereo, you are going to get stereo mp3/WMApro files that will have to be remuxed using your receiver to 5.1 for later listening.  Then again, that is if you absolutely need to listen to your audio in 5.1.

Thanks for your input.  When you say my source is stereo - why is that?  Is that because my cds are stereo only?  When listening to the tests on the MS page there are some real nice effects in music when played back on 5.1.  My reciever has DTS and is showing Dolby D on the playback from the sound card.  The card has the ability to output in 5.1, 7.1 dts etc.  I understand HD in movie soundtracks and that there is some HD music but is your comment about stereo source a reference to the fact that almost all music cds are stereo by nature? If that is the case any suggestions for getting music recordings that utilize 5.1/HD?  dcat

PS Auzentech X-Plosion 7.1 DTS Connect Soundcard

WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

Reply #3 –
Did some reading of other posts - is the issue that the digital co-ax is 2 channel?  Is that the same with the optical?  In that case I can run 5.1 from the analog outs assuming I get a reciever that has the inputs. 

Question if this is the case: Are music CDs in general encoded to take advantage of 5.1 output?  Or will I get the same effect by pushing out 2 channel digital and having reciever make into 5.1?

- any advantage to using wma pro - or is that irrelevant regarding a better 5.1 sound?

PS I definitely listen to a lot of my stuff in old fashion stereo.  dCAT

WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

Reply #4 –
Quote from: caudillo on
Question if this is the case: Are music CDs in general encoded to take advantage of 5.1 output?  Or will I get the same effect by pushing out 2 channel digital and having reciever make into 5.1?


If you want to listen  multichannel music, use SACD or DVD-Audio. Regular CDs are intended to be 2-channel.

WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

Reply #5 –
Yes, standard audio CDs are 2 channel only.  You need either DVD audio or SACD in order to get more than two channels of audio.  CDs will always come out as stereo no matter what type of audio connection you are using.  I believe digital coaxial and digital optical audio have the abilities to go up to 5.1 surround sound.  I think optical can go up to 7.1 audio but HD movies (as in Blu-ray and HD-DVD) require HDMI for this.

Audio CDs are not made to take advantage of 5.1 speakers.  Audio should only come out of your front left, front right, and subwoofer speakers.  I think there are a couple of software applications that can take a stereo signal and remux them to 5.1 by adding certain frequencies to certain speakers.  The results aren't very good though.  In order to get true 5.1 surround sound, you need a true 5.1 surround sound source.  Audio CDs are not 5.1 so there is no point in trying to encode them in 5.1.

Now as I previously said, some speaker systems use Dolby ProLogic and Dolby ProLogic II (or other technologies) which take a stereo signal, manipulate it, and output it in 5.1.  The results are often decent but no where near as good as having a 5.1 source.

Hence get 5.1 encoding out of your head since your sources will be standard audio CDs.  Focus just on stereo encoding.  Don't worry if WMApro is better at 5.1 encoding than FhG mp3 (they are the only ones who make a 5.1 mp3 encoder) at 5.1, that doesn't matter since you are focusing on stereo.  The last listening tests showed that WMApro was rather good at the 128kbps bitrate when compared against Lame mp3 at -V 5.  However, that was at the 128kbps bitrate.  Since you want to use ~192kbps, both formats are going to sound very similar.  This is the nature of lossy audio formats, all the good ones begin sounding similar once you hit high audio bitrates.

Hence, I suggest going with Lame mp3 at -V 2 --vbr-new since it will give you great results, it is better than using 192kbps CBR (in most cases), you will get universal compatibility (there aren't any devices that can play WMApro and only a select few software apps, one main one being WMP which blows), and Lame developers don't spew out the propaganda that comes from companies like Microsoft (Sony did the same thing with ATRAC3 but their statements were shown to be false).

WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

Reply #6 –
I believe there are provisions in the CD spec for 4-channel audio, though this is at the expense of fidelity.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....mp;#entry206420

WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

Reply #7 –
Thank you for all the info.  Now I can get to ripping my collection.  (in mp3)

I am now enchanted with the sacd concept.  I have a 20 gb ps3 and I understand it can play sacd.  Supposedly the most recent firmware stopped the 5.1 channel support over the optical, will it put out 5.1 over hdmi?  dCAT

PS  If I end up loving this format, I am sure I'll want to rip a few sacd's - is there a practical way to do that ie. under $200 sound card that would support this?

WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

Reply #8 –
Quote from: caudillo on
I hooked up my PC with a Azutech dts audio card and a $70 digital coax cable..."


What a waste of money!!

WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

Reply #10 –
Quote from: caudillo on
Thank you for all the info.  Now I can get to ripping my collection.  (in mp3)

I am now enchanted with the sacd concept.  I have a 20 gb ps3 and I understand it can play sacd.  Supposedly the most recent firmware stopped the 5.1 channel support over the optical, will it put out 5.1 over hdmi?  dCAT

PS  If I end up loving this format, I am sure I'll want to rip a few sacd's - is there a practical way to do that ie. under $200 sound card that would support this?


The great thing about mp3 is that you can even copy some of the files to your PS3's hard drive for playback or setup a media server.  The PS3 supports 5.1 output through both digital optical audio and HDMI, it will go up to 7.1 through HDMI only though.  As for ripping SACDs, you can search the forums as this has been discussed quite a bit.

WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

Reply #11 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Yes, standard audio CDs are 2 channel only.  You need either DVD audio or SACD in order to get more than two channels of audio.  CDs will always come out as stereo no matter what type of audio connection you are using.  I believe digital coaxial and digital optical audio have the abilities to go up to 5.1 surround sound.  I think optical can go up to 7.1 audio but HD movies (as in Blu-ray and HD-DVD) require HDMI for this.
There is one exception, DTS-CDs.
Those are regular Red Book CDs, but instead of 44100kHz 16 bit PCM samples, they contain DTS encoded 5.1 material. If one plays them in a regular CD player, the output is stereo noise
So, you can play them in a DVD player (or home theatre system), or use coax (optical) SPDIF interface to connect to receiver capable of DTS decoding. Then you get full 5.1 surround.
If age or weaknes doe prohibyte bloudletting you must use boxing
 

WMA Pro vs mp3 for feed to 5.1 system

Reply #12 –
Thanks guys.  I ripped half my collection with dAMP to mp3 vbr 192.  Started wondering why so many tracks were rated inaccurate including a couple that skipped, so I got EAC configured and seemed to fix that problem but definitely slower.  The system is almost together now.  Marantz 5300, SVS 25-31 pci sub went in this week.  KEF iq7s already in.  In a month or so I will wire thru the floor for the surround.  Now I have to soften up the room. 

Any recomendations for good SACD source?  Or pop/rock albums that really take advantage of the format?