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Topic: MP3Gain and Winamp Equalizer (Read 7132 times) previous topic - next topic
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MP3Gain and Winamp Equalizer

After applying MP3Gain to many mp3 files using 89db, I have noticed clipping when hearing those files with Winamp with its equalizer on. Of course, if equalizer is off, there's no clipping.
I'm using an equalization preset and keeping equalizer preamp in 0db (default).

I don't know if I'm wrong, but I could only see 2 solutions here:

Solution 1: Re-applying MP3Gain using some different value less than 89db.

Solution 2: Decreasing the equalizer preamp to a value without clipping.

But there are some problems with these solutions:

Solution 1: I read something about resolution (and quality) reduction (16 -> 15 bits) when using values less than 89db in MP3Gain. Is it true? I can't understand this because MP3Gain documentation says there's no change in quality of mp3 files.

Solution 2: Since mp3 files are very different, each file has its own preamp value. It's impossible to find the best value since each file needs an adjust.

Please, any ideas?
Thank you.

MP3Gain and Winamp Equalizer

Reply #1 –
Are you aware that the bands in the winamp equalizer range from +20dB to -20dB ?

I'm asking this because if you keep the preamp at 0, but have the bass at +10dB,  your mp3gained adjustments are almost lost in there.

Either don't use the winamp equalizer, or readjust it (the frequencies, and/or the preamp).

MP3Gain and Winamp Equalizer

Reply #2 –
Quote
Are you aware that the bands in the winamp equalizer range from +20dB to -20dB ?


I think the range it's +12db to -12db. Please, check it.

Quote
I'm asking this because if you keep the preamp at 0, but have the bass at +10dB,  your mp3gained adjustments are almost lost in there.
Either don't use the winamp equalizer, or readjust it (the frequencies, and/or the preamp).


That's exactly the problem. Readjusting preamp for each mp3 file is not a good idea.
Then Solution 2 is not the best.

I think the best solution is to decrease MP3Gain to less than 89db (Solution 1).
But what about the resolution and quality reduction (16 -> 15 bits) when using MP3Gain values less than 89db and near the original value 83db?

Please, could anyone clear this?
Thanks.

MP3Gain and Winamp Equalizer

Reply #3 –
Quote from: jalexm on
I think the range it's +12db to -12db. Please, check it.


You're right. I don't know what i was confused with.


Quote
That's exactly the problem.  [ .... ]


If you are going for decreasing the gain, you're obviously going for increasing your amp's volume. (each 6dBs lower the perceived volume by half).
It will be a compromise, wherever you want to set it. But it amuses me that you care about having clipping on the audio output AND wishing to use the equalizer.

Finally, why not use replaygain simply? It has the option " Apply Gain/Prevent Clipping". (Although maybe that doesn't take in consideration the equalizer step...)

Ps. I have no idea about the resolution loss you mention, but it is obvious that the loss happens when generating the wave (i.e. decoding), not on the mp3gaining, and has to do with the 6dB's<->half amplitude that I was mentioning previously.

MP3Gain and Winamp Equalizer

Reply #4 –
Just lower the preamp in the equalizer window until there's no more clipping.

MP3Gain and Winamp Equalizer

Reply #5 –
Quote
But it amuses me that you care about having clipping on the audio output AND wishing to use the equalizer.


First, thank you for your answers.
In fact, when I turn off the equalizer the sound becomes very "flat" and poor in my opinion.
When I decrease the preamp I get no clipping and keep the equalization effect. The problem is to do that for each song.

Quote
Finally, why not use replaygain simply? It has the option " Apply Gain/Prevent Clipping". (Although maybe that doesn't take in consideration the equalizer step...)


Yes, the equalization is AFTER applying MP3Gain, hence the clipping.
Maybe converting equalized MP3 -> WAV, re-converting WAV -> MP3 and applying MP3Gain would be another solution, but MP3 -> WAV -> MP3 is something I want to avoid, you know why.

Quote
Ps. I have no idea about the resolution loss you mention


Yes, I read about that but can't remember where. It's a thing I can't understand, since MP3Gain docs states there's no change in quality.

If someone else knows more about that, please tell us.
I'm thinking seriously about creating a new topic with this question...


Quote from: slks on
Just lower the preamp in the equalizer window until there's no more clipping.


Doing that for each song is a pain.

MP3Gain and Winamp Equalizer

Reply #6 –
Your problem are not at all related to MP3Gain. Winamp EQ clips awfully, and sucks badass (IMHO!). I used it many years ago, and set the preamp level negative according to the maximum positive EQ level. However you don't need to set your EQ on all files, unless you uncheck "Auto" AFAIR.

I think you should check you equipment if you find the sound too "flat". Try different loudspeakers until you find a model which suits your taste, and go for a flat EQ instad
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

MP3Gain and Winamp Equalizer

Reply #7 –
Quote from: jalexm on
Quote from: slks on

Just lower the preamp in the equalizer window until there's no more clipping.


Doing that for each song is a pain.


Why are you doing it for each song?

Surely you just put it at -6dB or something, and leave it alone? As odyssey said, the level of the pre-amp should be (roughly) the opposite of the level of the highest EQ band. e.g. +6dB at 20Hz implies you need -6dB pre-amp. If you have several of the EQ sliders pushed up, you'll need the pre-amp even lower (more negative) to be safe.


by the way...

mp3gain to 83dB > winamp EQ > output

...is identical to...

mp3gain to 89dB > winamp EQ -6dB pre-amp > output

...assuming there's no clipping reported by mp3gain in either case, and ignoring some low level rounding in winamp.

Cheers,
David.
 

MP3Gain and Winamp Equalizer

Reply #8 –
Quote from: odyssey on
Your problem are not at all related to MP3Gain. Winamp EQ clips awfully, and sucks badass (IMHO!). I used it many years ago, and set the preamp level negative according to the maximum positive EQ level. However you don't need to set your EQ on all files, unless you uncheck "Auto" AFAIR.

I think you should check you equipment if you find the sound too "flat". Try different loudspeakers until you find a model which suits your taste, and go for a flat EQ instad


The "awful" EQ for MP3 files was turned off by default about a year ago.  It now uses the same EQ all other plugins get routed through (4front developed EQ)