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Topic: Lossless codec hardware support (Read 10788 times) previous topic - next topic
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Lossless codec hardware support

Hi,
I am new in this forum. I am concerned about the hardware support for various codecs. The comparison table in the wiki marks all codecs with some hardware support as "yes" with a green background. The text that follows is quite informative, but I feel that we should make the table a bit clearer on this. It has been argued that hardware support is still 'bad' for all codecs, but I think this situation is improving. I plan on making the changes in the wiki unless someone persuades me not to.

Hardware support:
WavPack: Limited(rockbox) [orange]
ALAC: Limited(ipod, rockbox) [orange]
FLAC: Good [light green]
Monkey's: No [orange]
OptimFROG: No [orange]
Shorten: Limited(rockbox) [orange]
WMA: No [orange]
LA: No [orange]
TTA: Bad [orange]
LPAC: No [orange]
MPEG4 ALS: No [orange]
Real Lossless: No [orange]

Any comments/corrections?

regards,
Øyvin Eikeland

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #1 –
depends on what you mean by hardware support... if you mean a device that decodes a codec natively, out of the box, you will find that apple lossless is only on the ipod, a few chinese portables play monkeys audio, one russian player plays TTA, and nothing supports wavpack.  if you allow native support with firmware modifications then rockbox changes the balance a bit for portables.  if you go further and allow server side software that transcodes a codec on a PC to another codec for transmission to a device (e.g. slimserver to squeezebox) then it gets even more confusing.

Josh

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #2 –
Quote
The text that follows is quite informative, but I feel that we should make the table a bit clearer on this.


I would agree on this myself and the colors are hideous for the most part. 
budding I.T professional

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #3 –
The idea has been thrown around to update the "Error Handling" part of the chart.  Perhaps a footnote indicating what it acually is and what the rankings mean.

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #4 –
AFAIK, Toshiba's Gigabeat series supports WMA Lossless.
EAC>1)fb2k>LAME3.99 -V 0 --vbr-new>WMP12 2)MAC-Extra High

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #5 –
Quote from: jcoalson on
depends on what you mean by hardware support... if you mean a device that decodes a codec natively, out of the box...
Josh


I guess that would be it. Does the hardware support the format right out of the box? IMO Rockbox is for enthusiasts. How difficult is it to find a player that supports the file-format, and do you have much to choose from?

Anyway, I just went ahead and edited the table. As it says in the guidelines: don't be shy  Thanks to LANjackal for pointing me to the Toshiba V-line.

feedback?
Øyvin

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Øyvin Eikeland on
feedback?

There is a player that supports Monkey's Audio out of the box:
http://uk.gizmodo.com/2006/08/15/gemei_x21...udio_playe.html

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #9 –
Two quick comments.

The Roku PhotoBridge (unfortunately no longer produced) supports a codec plugin system in its firmware - and it has support for FLAC, ALAC, Shorten, TTA and WavPack.

The Pixel Magic Systems MediaBox system now supports FLAC playback as per firmware 1.3.4 - another one to add to your native FLAC hardware list.

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #10 –
Quote from: soiaf on
The Roku PhotoBridge (unfortunately no longer produced) supports a codec plugin system in its firmware - and it has support for FLAC, ALAC, Shorten, TTA and WavPack.


Hmm, this sounds like 3rd party software? I want to restrict this to devices that support the codec natively(right out of the box). Would you say that this is true for the Roku? I haven't done much research about this. Please enlighten me

Edit:
I just checked around a bit, and found this:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofive...php/t34036.html
I would call this 3rd party firmware ala rockbox, so I won't include it here. I must say however, that the installation procedure seemed quite simple and elegant.

Quote from: soiaf on
The Pixel Magic Systems MediaBox system now supports FLAC playback as per firmware 1.3.4 - another one to add to your native FLAC hardware list.


Thanks,
Øyvin

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #11 –
Hi!

Don't forget Pocket PC's. With the right software they support several audio formats.

Conduits Pocket Player: MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis, FLAC, WAV, MOD, MPC, APE
Core Player: MP3, AAC, MKA, WMA, WAV, OGG, Speex, WAVPACK, FLAC, MPC, AMR, ADPCM, ALaw, MuLaw



best wishes

Trondis

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Trondis on
Hi!

Don't forget Pocket PC's. With the right software they support several audio formats.


I would definitely define that as 3rd party software  Of course with a (pocket-)pc, everything is possible. I think this belongs under 'software support' in the table.

I have found some more devices that supports wma lossless:
http://www.google.com/notebook/public/1751...QiXSwoQ_ayZ_PAh
Seems like something halfway towards a pda(?)

regards,
Øyvin Eikeland

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #15 –
actually, it's still a nice reference, I found some devices on your page that I forgot about.  also, it's not always easy to find good pictures that are scalable with a white background and you found some that I didn't.

Josh

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #16 –
I agree it can be hard to find good photos of some of these players. I've ended up having to cut out backgrounds, etc. for some of the rarer products.

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #17 –
WMA Lossless - Philips Streamium MX6000, SL400 and SL300.

Additionally, the first two devices have SPDIF (coax) output, meaning that you can feed their PCM output into a high quality receiver or DACs to achieve (at least theoretically) excellent sound quality. 
Support for WMA, including WMA lossles was introduced by Philips to its Streamium line of media players about a year ago via an automatic software upgrade.

My setup, of which I am very proud, includes a DLNA / UPNP media server on a 250GB Buffalo NAS, serving WMA-L files via wireless router...

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Øyvin Eikeland on
Thanks! More comments?

Nice page.

I'm not sure the Turtle Beach Audiotron should count.  To make it play FLAC you had to hack your Samba server to transcode on the fly.

If you want higher quality photos of Slim Devices products you can find them here.

EDIT: Oh, I hadn't seen Josh's updated page.  That's really nice.

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #19 –
Hi,
thanks for the input. I have added the streamiums to my wma lossless notebook. I had some trouble finding any official info about the players. I also stumbled accross a lot of bad user experiences with the MC6000. The SL400 and SL300 seems nice though.

wma lossless hardware
http://www.google.com/notebook/public/1751...QiXSwoQ_ayZ_PAh

I have also removed the Turtle Beach Audiotron from the FLAC notebook. Thank you dem.

flac hardware
http://www.google.com/notebook/public/1751...RQnSwoQiYiX0_Ah

regards,
Øyvin Eikeland
 

Lossless codec hardware support

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Øyvin Eikeland on
Hi,
thanks for the input. I have added the streamiums to my wma lossless notebook. I had some trouble finding any official info about the players. I also stumbled accross a lot of bad user experiences with the MC6000. The SL400 and SL300 seems nice though.

wma lossless hardware
http://www.google.com/notebook/public/1751...QiXSwoQ_ayZ_PAh


No problem.  The MX6000 was the unit with DVD changer and most problems were with the changer.
I think with respect to WMA-L playback the unit of choice is SL400 as it offers SPDIF output, allowing to avoid using its internal DACs in favor of more advanced ones.  I am myself a happy user of SL400 bought on ebay for about $60 .  Worth mentioning is the fact that Streamium devices come from Philips, probably the first time device with (any) lossless format support from a major consumer electronics manufacturer...
Also, woth mentioning is the fact that Streamiums are compatible with generic DLNA servers (for example Tversity and Twonky), allowing to stream from variety of platforms and not only a Windows PC...

More info on the device can be found here:
http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/s/sl400i_..._37_pss_aen.pdf

Please note that WMA support was added after the initial release of the product through (an official) firmware update from Philips, so the product info (and most early reviews) does not have any references to WMA and/or WMA Lossless playback...