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Topic: Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ? (Read 448470 times) previous topic - next topic
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Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #350 –
I have been wanting to buy a few Beatles CD, but I read from wikipedia that the mastering techniques on those CDs are outdated and remasters are coming out soon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatles_discography (Under Historical Background)

I have a few other 80s CDs as well and they sound alright to me. So my question is, is it worth waiting for the remasters or should I buy the old 80s masters, just in case the remasters end up with clipping, etc?

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #352 –
Quote from: bug80 on
In response to the discussion about the mastering of R.E.M.'s Accelerate a nice article is written by Drew Crumbaugh:

http://remring.com/index.php?option=com_co...0&Itemid=26


I have Automatic For the People, And I thought the mastering on that is great, they made that as loud as it possible could be without damaging the sound quality. ei making sure there is no barely audible single loud bit bringing the overall volume down then peal level normalising, same goes for alot of other albums from that eara though such as Nevermind, I do have a couple from about that time that are overly quiet though.

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #353 –
Quote from: Boiled Beans on
I have been wanting to buy a few Beatles CD, but I read from wikipedia that the mastering techniques on those CDs are outdated and remasters are coming out soon.


Yeah, they're outdated -- they retain the full dynamic range of the source tapes.  That's so old-fashioned.
Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatles_discography (Under Historical Background)



The wiki is dumb.  It fails to take into account that the Stones catalog, for example, was rarely if ever mastered from low-generationmaster tapes, prior to the msot recent catalog remasters.  Certainly George Martin put more care into the Beatles on CD, than anyone did on the original Beach Boys , Stones, or Dylan CD releases


Quote
I have a few other 80s CDs as well and they sound alright to me. So my question is, is it worth waiting for the remasters or should I buy the old 80s masters, just in case the remasters end up with clipping, etc?



I would buy a set of the current versions, just in case.

Quote from: Phixion on
What program do I need to get an output like this: http://www.linaeum.com/images/audioslave.gif ?


One that allows you to travel back in time?

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #354 –
Quote from: AJ_UK on
Quote from: bug80 on

In response to the discussion about the mastering of R.E.M.'s Accelerate a nice article is written by Drew Crumbaugh:

http://remring.com/index.php?option=com_co...0&Itemid=26


I have Automatic For the People, And I thought the mastering on that is great, they made that as loud as it possible could be without damaging the sound quality.

I agree the mastering on Automatic for the People is just excellent (so is the mixing, and the music by the way).

It's a shame that their latest album (Accelerate) is a Loudness War Victim, though. 

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #355 –
I noticed last years winner of Grammy Award for Best Engineered Album, is also one of the albums picked out on the WP article on the loudness war, is that award based on Vinyl versions?

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #356 –
Opeth - Still Life

Worst mastering ever, good thing they remastered it recently. The remaster came out like, 1 month ago.

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #357 –
Hi, long time reader, first time poster.

I was very unpleasantly surprised with a few recent releases that are awfully mixed and/or mastered.

So here's my current top 5:

1. Duffy - Rockferry. This girl's album is very promoted over here in Poland, with lots of radio and tv presence (the single "Mercy"). I was wondering how this album would sound and... well... it doesn't sound any better compared to listening to the song "Mercy" on radio in mono.
In the first song, it's apparent that they used SO much dynamics compression on the singer's voice it's a pain to listen to. When she sings louder, the only thing that gets louder is the reverberation or echo in the background - sounds really, really bad.

2. Avantasia - The Scarecrow. Their previous releases, The Metal Opera part 1 and 2 were loud, but besides brick-wall hard limiting the dynamics were pretty much ok and each instrument, each singer had it's place. This new release is... well... tragic. A pure example of how to destroy music. I never listened to the whole album in one sitting. I always turn it off after the third track, which starts with a guitar, but when the rest of the band starts playing, instead of getting at least a little bit louder, it actually gets quiter. I could live with that, only if the sound quality was okay... but it isn't. The songs sound, I don't know, flat? The most fascinating thing about this album is that Tobias Sammet, the project leader, is very pleased with the production and said in one of the interviews that the band spent a lot of money to get "good" production...

3. Porcupine Tree - Fear of a Blank Planet. The production is pretty good in overall, but sometimes, due to the loudness war, the drums disappear below the wall of guitars. Thankfully, the DVD-Audio 5.1 mix sounds surprisingly well - and the drums which disappear on the stereo mix, sound very good: properly loud and audible. Steven Wilson even got a Grammy nomination for the 5.1 mix.

4. Antimatter - Leaving Eden. The album may not be as loud as other recent releases, but somebody totally ruined the drums. I don't know if it was during the mastering or during the mixing, but the drums sound... well, they just don't sound  You can achieve the same effect using hard limiting at, say, -15dB (I don't know much about audio production, but I like playing with audio editing).

5. Riverside - Second Life Syndrome. I don't know what the band and what the engineers were thinking. I also think this album is not as loud as other rock/metal music nowadays, but... everytime there's some keyboards and guitars at the same time, the drums fade out... it's extremely annoying - the drums' loudness is simply reduced by a lot when everybody in the band is playing at the same time.

That should be it

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #358 –
Quote from: soulburner on
3. Porcupine Tree - Fear of a Blank Planet. The production is pretty good in overall, but sometimes, due to the loudness war, the drums disappear below the wall of guitars.
You may dislike the sound but it's definitely not related to the loudness war. Just look at the wave form and the ReplayGain values. There's no "clipression" whatsoever.

Steven Wilson even stated this:
Quote
I have gradually taken over all the mastering of my projects and this is the first PT album that I have mastered because I was not happy with the way that professional mastering houses were mastering it. There is a tendency to make everything very loud, to try and get volume at the sacrifice of dynamics and too much treble and too much bass and not enough of that warmth in the middle. You know the pressure has been there from record companies to make CD's sound louder because they notionally sound more exciting that way. But over a period of 50-60 mins it really does start to tire your ears out, and that has been a problem with this CD generation, basically your ears get tired quicker.
Source: http://www.caerllysimusic.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d77.html

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #359 –
Quote from: Hancoque on
Quote from: soulburner on
3. Porcupine Tree - Fear of a Blank Planet. The production is pretty good in overall, but sometimes, due to the loudness war, the drums disappear below the wall of guitars.
You may dislike the sound but it's definitely not related to the loudness war. Just look at the wave form and the ReplayGain values. There's no "clipression" whatsoever.

Ok, maybe it's not a loudness war issue, but... why are the drums disappearing under the guitars on "Way Out Of Here", during the heavy part in the middle? On the DVD-A 5.1 the drums sound a lot better, and it's not just because it's 5.1 and there's more speakers to put sound in... the effect of disappearing drums does not occur on older stereo releases, so I thought it's a loudness war thing. I have to say I never looked at the waveforms for this album.

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #360 –
Hmm, I think it's a matter of taste here. While the drums in the stereo mix are indeed much less prominent, it contributes to the overwhelming character of the (wall of) sound. It somehow fits to the song. But If you ask me, I also prefer the 5.1 mix.

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #361 –
Nine Inch Nails - 2008 - The Slip

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #362 –
At least it's free. 

Cheers, Slipstreem. 

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #363 –
Quote from: adamjk on
Nine Inch Nails - 2008 - The Slip
I downloaded the high resolution version (24-bit, 96 kHz). Album gain is -9.39 dB. The waveforms of the majority of tracks look awful. And they call it audiophile.

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #364 –
Quote from: bug80 on
By the way, the new R.E.M. album is also mastered pretty loud (too loud actually). Album gain -10.91 dB. There is a discussion about it on Murmurs.com, interesting to read people's opinions.

In general, people who don't know about the loudness war do not seem to care. It's loud so it is good right?


A bit OT again, but does anyone have the 2005 re-issue of Automatic, the one which includes a DVD? Has the CD been affected by the loudness war?

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #365 –
Quote from: krabapple on
Quote from: Phixion on

What program do I need to get an output like this: http://www.linaeum.com/images/audioslave.gif ?


One that allows you to travel back in time?

I think he means a visual output like that. And I'm afraid I don't know, but it would actually be quite interesting to find out (probably not useful, but interesting.) So if anyone what software that is then I'd be interested too, although I guess it wouldn't be too hard to knock one up in Octave or similar.

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #366 –
Quote from: Hancoque on
Quote from: adamjk on
Nine Inch Nails - 2008 - The Slip
I downloaded the high resolution version (24-bit, 96 kHz). Album gain is -9.39 dB. The waveforms of the majority of tracks look awful. And they call it audiophile.



why is the album gain value an issue? and how can anybody seriously say its the worst mastered cd lol

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #367 –
Quote from: tgoose on
Quote from: krabapple on

Quote from: Phixion on

What program do I need to get an output like this: http://www.linaeum.com/images/audioslave.gif ?


One that allows you to travel back in time?

I think he means a visual output like that. And I'm afraid I don't know, but it would actually be quite interesting to find out (probably not useful, but interesting.) So if anyone what software that is then I'd be interested too, although I guess it wouldn't be too hard to knock one up in Octave or similar.

Don't you know Cool Edit?

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #368 –
I am sad to include this one here:

Def Leppard - Song From The Sparkle Lounge

The RG values for a few songs exceed -10dB.

"Hallucinate" starts with just a guitar playing and my Foobar's VU meter is at 0dB almost constantly. Where's space for the rest of the band here?

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #369 –
The Pigeon Detectives - Emergency has an album gain of -11.38. The worst track comes out as -11.98!

What is annoying is that the vinyl is also mastered very poorly (sounds muddled).

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #370 –
Quote from: james.miller on
Quote from: Hancoque on

Quote from: adamjk on
Nine Inch Nails - 2008 - The Slip
I downloaded the high resolution version (24-bit, 96 kHz). Album gain is -9.39 dB. The waveforms of the majority of tracks look awful. And they call it audiophile.

why is the album gain value an issue? and how can anybody seriously say its the worst mastered cd lol

The album gain is measured across the whole album, and is designed to give the same gain adjustment to each track, on the assumption that they have been mastered consistently relative to each other.  Consider, for example, the effect of using different per-track gains on a continuously-mixed album.

An album gain that strong is pretty darn bad, and suggests that at least several of the individual tracks are worse than that.

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #371 –
Quote from: Chromatix on
The album gain is measured across the whole album, and is designed to give the same gain adjustment to each track, on the assumption that they have been mastered consistently relative to each other.  Consider, for example, the effect of using different per-track gains on a continuously-mixed album.

An album gain that strong is pretty darn bad, and suggests that at least several of the individual tracks are worse than that.


But how does loudness translate into bad mastering?! I am certain you can create the lousiest mastering and still get a replay gain of zero. If this was a list of the loudest CDs, then I'd agree with using the gain value to identify them, but this is about how the music SOUNDS... . Is it not?

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #372 –
Quote from: flacflac on
But how does loudness translate into bad mastering?! I am certain you can create the lousiest mastering and still get a replay gain of zero.

I'm sure you could - but in the wild this is not what is most often seen.  There is a strong correlation seen between insane replaygain values and insanely compressed mastering.
So, while you are correct, I think it is not unexpected that outrageous replaygain values are used as a shorthand when discussing "poor" mastering.
Creature of habit.

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #373 –
I was thinking about this myself the other day. I have a few heavy metal albums with high replay gain values (at or near -9.0dB) that sound really good and don't feel overcompressed.

But when the RG values exceed -9, reaching -10 or even over -12 (Airborne - Running' Wild album - just when I thought the loudness war can't get any further) it's impossible to achieve good mastering. This often results in volume changes of certain instruments when another one starts playing - like keyboards, orchestration or a chorus, can lower the loudness of drums (I hate it especialy, since I love drums) or the guitars, which sounds very annoying.

When an album annoys you, even when you love the songs, it has to be bad mastering


Not only the Airborne shocked me with it's -12dB album gain.
(just take a look at this:
[a href="http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=isthisshitmusictq0.jpg" target="_blank"]

Whats is the worst mastered CD [your opinions] ?

Reply #374 –
From the CDs I own :

Red Hot Chili Peppers : "Californication"
Foo Fighters : "One by One"
Queens of the Stone Age : "Songs for the Deaf"

I think they are already mentioned here .