ABX testing vs. unconscious perception/decision, enjoyment, and so on Reply #50 – 2012-03-23 11:44:44 Quote from: drewfx on 2012-03-22 17:05:07If you're driving down the street you might not consciously notice a red car with the windows rolled down parked on the left (along with a lot of other stuff), but that doesn't mean you couldn't see it if you were looking for it. but what if their door opened and without realising you took corrective action. So not only did your brain register the car (your example) but your brain also took some action (my addition). Then this would be interesting. And I am pretty sure this happens, as there have been many times when drivers get someone and cannot remember exactly how they did.Quote from: drewfx on 2012-03-22 17:05:07Or are we discussing a theoretical possibility that such things could possibly exist and thus should be tested for? Theoretical in this space possibly, but we have examples, like the one above which show the brain can do exactly this.@greynol does this show that there is a chance for the spaghetti monster here?Maybe I am misunderstanding the conditions of an ABX test, but as I said in the OP or early on, there are definite states of mind in which we take certain inputs and get different ouputs. After all we are a Mealy machine of sorts. So unless you are saying that doing an ABX test and just listening for enjoyment are one and the same state (which Arnold was suggesting can almost happen) then you can get different outcomes.And I saying that we DO get different outcomes? Do I believe that this is likely? - No, but I have to admit it would NOT surprise me if it was shown that there was something that we hadn’t yet considered.Remember again either from my OP or near the top, I am interested in a conscious outcome. It is no good that an unconscious input leads to no changes in our conscious awareness (ie we swerve the car and even in retrospect do not realise we did so) we are only interested when we are changed in our consciousness. I am comfortable that ABX can test of overt changes in consciousness, however there are 2nd order changes in consciousness that a) it is harder to pin point what caused the change and b) we be hard to replicateNow with ABX, it actually circumvents the problem with (a), but does not address (b). So in my initial example around “happiness” forcing someone to be happy is rather difficult.However I now seem to have done full circle in re-articulating why I think this is worthwhile and in the process only Arnold has provided an example of how when he felt he could make that 2nd order call.