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32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

I have tried to use foobar+official flac encoder as well as dbpoweramp to convert 32bit wavs to 32bit flacs. even though my settings on foobar are to output a file with the same bitdepth as source, it still outputted 24bit flacs. dbpoweramp crashed. what are my choices to ensure a properly encoded 32bit flac? I have heard that a flac file loaded into audacity can be made 32bit, but that would require a re-render which i am afraid will change the checksum from the source wav and will therefore not allow me to check the integrity of the flac encode.

what program (preferably free) will allow me to do this?

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #1
Have you tried just running flac.exe with the bits set to 32 and the source your wav file?

That said if this is just some intermediate file while you're processing I wouldn't bother with FLAC.  Just use WAV until processing is done, and then at the final step convert to 24 bit and flac it for archive or distribution.

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #2
Flac does not support 32 bit floating point WAV. Try Wavpack instead.

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #3
FLAC doesn't support 32-bit float. I have read that in theory the FLAC format could support 32-bit integer, but no such encoder exists.

If you are working with audio editing projects and want to compress your intermediate or master files you can use WavPack. It supports 32-bit float.

EDIT

googlebot posted while I was writing my reply.

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #4
my label releases music with specs up to source bitdepth and freq in flac, so i am disappoint i cant do that with this release...

thanks for the help tho guise

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #5
You don't need 32-bit in the final product. 24-bit provides a 144 dB dynamic range.

In my experience, in a real life listening test it is very difficult to actually hear a higher dynamic range than 14 or 15 bits can provide (84/90 dB).

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #6
CoyoteSmith, what makes you think what is beyond 24bits in your source material is actual musical content and not just random noise?
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #7
...or anything much beyond the first 16 bits for that matter.

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #8
It's the same thing that prompted this response a little over a week ago:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=720425

People seem to want to believe that the stuff below the noise floor is somehow necessary "information".
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #9
I have read that in theory the FLAC format could support 32-bit integer, but no such encoder exists.

Just an FYI...
The current SVN version of Flake supports 32-bit integer FLAC encoding, but the official FLAC decoder can't handle it.  The FFmpeg FLAC decoder supports it, but it only if stereo decorrelation was not used.

But still... I would avoid it until it's officially supported in libFLAC.

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #10
...or anything much beyond the first 16 bits for that matter.


Good question  I dont know so I dont find a cutoff point. I think even 16bit, maybe there is nothing beyond 40khz, or 38khz etc but i dont know for sure. i do not have a way to test this. i do not rely on ABX since my speakers are not good to determine master quality (my speakers are cheap).

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #11
I dont know so I dont find a cutoff point. I think even 16bit, maybe there is nothing beyond 40khz, or 38khz etc but i dont know for sure. i do not have a way to test this.

You have ears. Are you saying that you can hear frequencies as high as 40kHz?

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #12
all i'm saying is i would like to offer the music in source specs as well as downgraded specs. tbh i'm not sure of the effects of dithering from 32bit to 24bit to 16bit or the frequency range of a listener. i was given 32bit wavs @ 44.1khz and i would like to make that option available as a download. i was hoping for flac instead to do this but it is not that big of a deal i suppose 

btw if anyone would like to give me some idea of distortion that may occur from dithering from 32bit to 24bit it would be appreciated. also if i am using the word dithering incorrectly please dont b hatin on me (as a lurker i kno how this place can get sometimes).

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #13
Quote
tbh i'm not sure of the effects of dithering from 32bit to 24bit to 16bit or the frequency range of a listener.
Quote
if anyone would like to give me some idea of distortion that may occur from dithering from 32bit to 24bit it would be appreciated.
Some added quantisation noise, almost certainly completely inaudible.
Reducing bit depth has absolutely no effect on or relation to frequency range.

Quote
also if i am using the word dithering incorrectly please dont b hatin on me (as a lurker i kno how this place can get sometimes).
I presume you are an artist for your label, not an audio engineer?
Dithering is adding a tiny random number to each sample, to randomise rounding, and thus reduce the likelihood of audible distortion caused by (predictable) quantisation.

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #14
Quote
if anyone would like to give me some idea of distortion that may occur from dithering from 32bit to 24bit it would be appreciated.
Some added quantisation noise, almost certainly completely inaudible.

If he provides us with a Replaygain figure the word "almost" will probably disappear.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #15
all i'm saying is i would like to offer the music in source specs as well as downgraded specs. tbh i'm not sure of the effects of dithering from 32bit to 24bit to 16bit or the frequency range of a listener. i was given 32bit wavs @ 44.1khz and i would like to make that option available as a download. i was hoping for flac instead to do this but it is not that big of a deal i suppose 


Just some numbers...

24bit offers 144db of dynamic range between silence and full scale.
Even you have a superb D/A converter / amplifier , the dynamic range is about 120db.
So anything below -120db (0db=fullscale) is masked anyway by the noise of your hardware.

32bit just make sense for editing, but not as distribution format.

Converting from 32bit to 24bit will add noise at -140db, still far far away from your "noisy" hardware.

btw. 32bit will be converted anyway by hardware to 24bit, there is no 32bit D/A converter in standard pro/consumer hardware.
(Yes, there is a 32bit D/A converter chip available, but just in a view products)

So, don't care about 32bit as distribution format. 24bit is in most cases also overkill.

16bit for CD was a wise choice 30years ago.




.halverhahn

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #16
Thanks everyone. I ended up uploading a variety of formats including the 32bit wav masters (for whatever reason). I have learned some stuff from your discussion

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #17
I want to bump this topic as I am having the same issue. I purchased a WAV release from a site and it contains two 32-bit 96,000 kHz WAVs. I went to convert them in foobar and they became 24bit afterward.
Perhaps I'm not fully understanding what 32 float actually is. Does it matter that the file is 24 bit afterward from a literal quality standpoint? I am certain that I will never be able to tell the difference either way, but I want the best option possible regardless. Can anyone clear this up?

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #18
Whoops, never mind. I missed all the replies in this topic!

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #19
Way before you get to 24 bits, there is nothing but noise in the lower order bits. Recordings with the best equipment, under the best recording conditions, of the most dynamic music, could contain about 20 bits of signal (i.e. what you are recording).

Many recordings undergo extensive processing between making the recording and releasing the final product. Processing results in quantization errors -- noise and distortion from calculation errors -- because these kinds of DSP involves extensive use of irrational numbers. Using a floating point format keeps those errors below the audio signal so that you end up, even after a great deal of processing, with pretty much as much real resolution as you started with (say 20 bits in the best cases).

A 24 bit integer storage format will secure that resolution completely. This is already far more than you can hear, but if you could hear anything below those 20 bits, it would only be noise, not part of the music that was originally recorded.

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #20
[quote author=AndyH-ha link=msg=757719 date=1306924777]Recordings with the best equipment, under the best recording conditions, of the most dynamic music, could contain about 20 bits of signal (i.e. what you are recording).[/quote]
And I'd add that it's about the same for playback. You'd be hard pressed to find a system that can actually reproduce the dynamic range of 24 bits, even if the musical content had it (by computer generated -synth- sounds).


Also, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 32 bit float actually 24 bit integer content + an 8 bit "buffer", so that you can crank the volume past 0dB digital inside programs?
This would, I think, make a normalized 32 bit float file and a normalized 24 bit one pretty much identical.


Anyway, 32 bit (float) for delivery is absolute nonsense. But hey, I've seen worse from the audio "enthusiasts".

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #21
32 bit float is essentially a 24 bit int plus a scale factor. For anything over half of full scale of the int, they have essentially the same resolution, but for anything smaller than that the float has a greater dynamic range.

(The above analysis ignores the fact that the float's mantissa has a range of +- 2^24, while the int has a range of +- 2^23).

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #22
24bit int = 1bit sign + 23bits range
32bit float = 1bit sign + 7bit mantissa + 24bit range

That mostly resumes what pdq said, but I would also like to put emphasis on the "floating" part of the float type.
I.e. it is not the same a 32bit integer with fixed point ( which could be 1bit sign + 7bit decimal part + 24bit integer part), than a 32bit float.

The important part of floating point is the fact that full scale is not the biggest value that can be represented, so you have the whole 24bit range, without the need to worry about clipping or losing precision:
If you have a -20dbFS signal and add a -160dBFS signal, both would still be in the floating point one, while that could not be in the 24bit int.
If you have a -100dbFS signal, and add a -220dbFS signal, both would still be in the floating point one too.

So, 32bit float limits the SNR to a range of 25bits, but that SNR is not anchored to 0dbFS.

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #23
Converting 32 bit integer WAV to 32 bit FLAC in Foobar v1.3.3, I'm getting 24 bit FLAC.  Shouldn't this work now?  Am I doing something wrong?

32bit WAV to 32bit FLAC, what are my options?

Reply #24
Shouldn't this work now?

No. There are almost no decoders capable of decoding this, and the reference encoder is not able to encode it. Therefore, it is de facto unsupported.
Music: sounds arranged such that they construct feelings.

 
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