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Topic: Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume! (Read 13382 times) previous topic - next topic
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Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Why doesn't Foobar really MUTE the output when telling it? It just lowers the volume by 100dB

EDIT: This just happens with the ASIO output plugin (1.2.6). FIXED (1.2.7)

DirectSound output goes silent when muting.


+ It would be nice if you could display "-inf" or "muted" instead of "-100.00dB" in the status bar. DONE (0.9.6.2)

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #1
And the difference is?

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #2
-100dB isn't really silence. If you record the output of Foobar and apply gain you hear the stuff playing. I need silence there.

Current mute is just a DIM function. Hope this will get "fixed".

FIXED (1.2.7)

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #3
If you record the output of Foobar and apply gain you hear the stuff playing.

Perhaps if you could explain why you do this on a regular basis that requires you to need a better implementation, it would have a better chance of being addressed...
elevatorladylevitateme

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #4
I need real mute for safety purposes.

Basically I've routed several stuff/applications (including Foobar) back to my soundcard inputs. This way I can record pretty much all stuff in one go into my sequencer.

I just don't wanna close Foobar if I don't wanna get its output recorded. I just wanna mute it. Doing this at the moment always gives me the -100dB output from Foobar into the recording. That's not good. Especially if you don't know it (for example if you have "Show Volume" disabled in the status bar).


What was the reason at all to "design" the mute function as -100dB dim rather than muting the output completely? To me it makes no sense.

If this can't be "fixed", the current "Mute" action needs to be renamed to "-100dB Dim" at least. DONE (0.9.6.2)


Thanks!

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #5
Pause?
Windows 10 Pro x64 // foobar2000 1.3.10

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #6
No, that doesn't work for internet streams.

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #7
Stop does.
elevatorladylevitateme

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #8
Is it so hard to understand? I don't wanna stop playback nor close Foobar.

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #9
Yes, it is hard to understand why, sometimes, people can't simply adapt their usage patterns to use the available solutions.

You've brought up valid enough points that I imagine this may get reviewed at the next 1/10th of a point version change (0.9.7). That seems to be when back-end, audio-playback-engine-sorts-of-things get addressed. Of course since 0.9.6 was just released that could be maybe 6 months from now, like it was for the guy who couldn't press the next button when using stop-after-current.

So until then, just learn to use stop or pause.
elevatorladylevitateme

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #10
Of course I know all workarounds. That's not the question here. I'm requesting a proper Mute action. Current one isn't. Please stop telling me stuff I already know. I'm not stupid.

Other players can mute the output fine. Why can't Foobar?

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #11
Yes, it is hard to understand why, sometimes, people can't simply adapt their usage patterns to use the available solutions.
Honestly in all likeliness I would imagine he wouldn't use mute at the moment since it doesn't do what he wants. He just wants an answer as to whether it can be changed or not.

As far as DirectSound goes, this is what I found:
Quote
The value DSBVOLUME_MIN indicates an audio volume attenuated by 100 dB, which, for all practical purposes, is silence.


So it would need some other implementation than the DS volume control (which would probably mean a short delay).

(Don't ask me about other players)
.

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #12
Other players can mute the output fine. Why can't Foobar?

Unlike a lot of other players, many parts of foobar2000's playback is largely developed in-house, by Peter.
It was probably just easier to implement, and fits the requirements of 99.99% of users.

Your needs are really a "perfect-storm" type situation. In 6 years of foobar2000 you seem to be (after lots of searching) the first person to be unsatisfied with the current implementation.

How is that so hard to understand?

Yes, it is hard to understand why, sometimes, people can't simply adapt their usage patterns to use the available solutions.
Honestly in all likeliness I would imagine he wouldn't use mute at the moment since it doesn't do what he wants. He just wants an answer as to whether it can be changed or not.
Sure. But until then, pause or stop could be sufficient.
elevatorladylevitateme

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #13
As far as DirectSound goes, this is what I found


I'm not using DirectSound. I'm using the ASIO output plugin.


And while we're talking about DirectSound: I've just tested Windows Media Player 11 and Media Player Classic -> both via DirectSound output - and both really mute the output (-inf), so ...


Foobar is superior in so many aspects, so why shouldn't it have a proper Mute action too? If you don't need it you could simply ignore this thread or not? Why do you need to fight about such things? Would it hurt you if Foobar would mute the output completely rather than just dim it?

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #14
I'm not using DirectSound. I'm using the ASIO output plugin.

And if we're talking about DirectSound: I've just tested Windows Media Player 11 and Media Player Classic -> both really mute the output (-inf), so ...
Well anyway I was just passing some info along.

MPC uses DirectShow / IBasicAudio (with –10,000) as far as I can see, what happens after that I don't know. (Did you try foobar2000 DirectSound also? If the volume is handle by the output component they can behave differently.)

Anyway, a DSP component should also be able to do what you want.
.

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #15
Did you try foobar2000 DirectSound also?


Thanks for that question! With DirectSound it works fine! So this request just applies to the ASIO output plugin (1.2.6). FIXED (1.2.7)

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #16
Foobar is superior in so many aspects, so why shouldn't it have a proper Mute action too?
I didn't say it shouldn't. If fact, I've said that I think it will probably be implemented.

If you don't need it you could simply ignore this thread or not?
I was showing you the work-arounds. And, I was wondering why they were insufficient.


Why do you need to fight about such things?
No one's fighting, here.  I was just asking questions to try to understand exactly what your needs are. I apologize if that made you defensive.


Would it hurt you if Foobar would mute the output completely rather than just dim it?
Directly no.
But given the fact that developer-resources are limited, all feature requests compete for those resources.

[edit]Glad you found a solution.
elevatorladylevitateme

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #17
Yeah, I'll use DirectSound output then. Thanks for your help.


Still: It would be nice if the statusbar could display "-inf" or "muted" instead of "-100.00dB" (to avoid confusion). DONE (0.9.6.2)

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #18
Thanks for that question! With DirectSound it works fine!
OK  (That sentence I quoted was probably just referring to the meaning of DSBVOLUME_MIN at other values, and reasoning why at exactly DSBVOLUME_MIN it is silence. Well who knows really..  )
.

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #19
It would be nice if the statusbar could display "-inf" or "muted" instead of "-100.00dB" (to avoid confusion).


Do people agree with this?

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #20
It would be nice if the statusbar could display "-inf" or "muted" instead of "-100.00dB" (to avoid confusion).


Do people agree with this?


A few years ago when we had this last up for discussion, it was left as is since we found it served no use.

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #21
"Served no use"?

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #22
This is a niche issue: volume control has been working like this for years and I don't recall anyone having a problem with this before until now, at least not in recent years.
Now that this has been brought up, I'll see what can be done about it, but volume can't be simply set to -inf as existing user interface components would most likely fail to display it correctly - this applies to both bundled and third-party user interface code.
Perhaps UI needs to be changed to show volume values below some threshold as "mute".

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #23
Ok, thanks Peter! Can you say something to the mute problem when using your ASIO output plugin? Why does it just dim the volume by 100dB?

Real "Mute" function instead of just lowering volume!

Reply #24
Peter? Can you provide a fix for the ASIO plugin?

FIXED (1.2.7)

 
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