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Topic: new in aac what should i do to get cd quality (Read 27410 times) previous topic - next topic
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new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Hi to all

i used to encode my cds in mp3 , using eac or cdex + lame (fast standard o extreme)

i get always great results


but now i would like to encode my music in aac lot of people told me it's the best

well
i download  a trial version of easy cd extractor here
and here i can read
Quote
The aacPlus codec family is fully standardized in MPEG-4 and delivers CD quality stereo at 48 kbps and 5.1 surround sound at 128 kbps.


well for me it's strange that @ 48k i can get the same cd quality

outside the blindtests

can u give me some advises ?

which encoder should i use to get great results?
and with bitrate?


thanks

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #1 –
You can't get cd quality @ 48k . I mean it might sound good on some stuff, but try different genre - solo instrument etc, electronica and it will blow ..  from you post you want great quality so I assume you don't want to stuff around with low bitrate . Your time is precious.

From 128k AAC has no clear advantage over other codecs - roughly the same as lame V5 (more robust in some cases and not better than V4).

AAC 128..160k should be great as in size vs quality and 160..190k should be close to perfect while still remaining small for portable needs. I'd say AAC quality 0.5 will be a good replacement for your preset standard / extreme rips - more robust with preecho and >16khz content meaning similar quality at lower bitrate.

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #2 –
Quote
AAC 128..160k should be great as in size vs quality and 160..190k should be close to perfect while still remaining small for portable needs. I'd say AAC quality 0.5 will be a good replacement for your preset standard / extreme rips - more robust with preecho and >16khz content meaning similar quality at lower bitrate.


This is true for the NeroAAC codec. NeroAAC is the recommended codec for AAC. Just take a look on the AAC - General area of HA.

If you want to have cd quality, just try which bitrate is sufficient for you (for me NeroAAC @ q0.31 is enough for cd quality... but others might use more or less.). In general, with q0.5 (around 175kbps) you're on the safe way.


Quote
but now i would like to encode my music in aac lot of people told me it's the best


The best for what?
FB2K,APE&LAME

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #3 –
[quote name='shadowking' post='590968' date='Oct 1 2008, 02:35']
You can't get cd quality @ 48k . I mean it might sound good on some stuff, but try different genre - solo instrument etc, electronica and it will blow ..  from you post you want great quality so I assume you don't want to stuff around with low bitrate . Your time is precious.

From 128k AAC has no clear advantage over other codecs - roughly the same as lame V5 (more robust in some cases and not better than V4).

AAC 128..160k should be great as in size vs quality and 160..190k should be close to perfect while still remaining small for portable needs. I'd say AAC quality 0.5 will be a good replacement for your preset standard / extreme rips - more robust with preecho and >16khz content meaning similar quality at lower bitrate.
[/quote]
well i read the info about the 48k in link
i did not believe

so a good range it's 160-190, but does it sound better then lame?

[quote name='memomai' date='Oct 1 2008, 03:24' post='590977']
Quote



Quote
but now i would like to encode my music in aac lot of people told me it's the best


The best for what?


best to use for portable player like ipod or store in the pc and play with foobar or other software player

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #4 –
Quote
best to use for portable player like ipod or store in the pc and play with foobar or other software player


that's wrong. mp3 is still the best for these purposes, and will stay the standard for a long time. AAC not, because

- limited hardware support

- compatibility problems with iPod and NeroAAC

- limited software support (just a few software players now support AAC.)
FB2K,APE&LAME

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #5 –
Quote from: memomai on
Quote
best to use for portable player like ipod or store in the pc and play with foobar or other software player


that's wrong. mp3 is still the best for these purposes, and will stay the standard for a long time. AAC not, because

- limited hardware support

- compatibility problems with iPod and NeroAAC

- limited software support (just a few software players now support AAC.)

thanks!

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #6 –
Quote from: memomai on
Quote
best to use for portable player like ipod or store in the pc and play with foobar or other software player


that's wrong. mp3 is still the best for these purposes, and will stay the standard for a long time. AAC not, because

- limited hardware support

- compatibility problems with iPod and NeroAAC

- limited software support (just a few software players now support AAC.)

I never had any issues with Nero AAC files on my ipod classic and ipod nano. Also most software players I know support AAC expect WMP; but the Mp3 support on WMP is poor anyway.

Hardware support for AAC is growing. Most mobile phone support AAC LC and sometimes even HE and some DAPs from Sony and Sanddisk are offering AAC support.
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #7 –
I too use Nero AAC files on my iPod 5.5G and have never had a problem with the over 700 cd's I've encoded. NEVER.

Just about everything supports AAC now. I have an old Windows Mobile smartphone running Windows Mobile 5, and it even plays AAC files without any problems. No problems with most modern car stereos either. mp3 is still the standard and probably will be for a while, but AAC is slowly catching up in terms of compatibility.

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #8 –
Quote from: /mnt on
Quote from: memomai on

Quote
best to use for portable player like ipod or store in the pc and play with foobar or other software player


that's wrong. mp3 is still the best for these purposes, and will stay the standard for a long time. AAC not, because

- limited hardware support

- compatibility problems with iPod and NeroAAC

- limited software support (just a few software players now support AAC.)

I never had any issues with Nero AAC files on my ipod classic and ipod nano. Also most software players I know support AAC expect WMP; but the Mp3 support on WMP is poor anyway.

Hardware support for AAC is growing. Most mobile phone support AAC LC and sometimes even HE and some DAPs from Sony and Sanddisk are offering AAC support.



Quote from: MetalMessiah78 on
I too use Nero AAC files on my iPod 5.5G and have never had a problem with the over 700 cd's I've encoded. NEVER.

Just about everything supports AAC now. I have an old Windows Mobile smartphone running Windows Mobile 5, and it even plays AAC files without any problems. No problems with most modern car stereos either. mp3 is still the standard and probably will be for a while, but AAC is slowly catching up in terms of compatibility.

with are yuor setting to obtain a standard vbr quality?

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #9 –
Quote
I never had any issues with Nero AAC files

I have... My iPod shuffle only plays iTune's encoded AAC files, but not Nero's.
Software issues: wrong length display of NeroAAC files in iTunes.
Missing HE-AAC on my DAPs, only LC-AAC.

Quote
Just about everything supports AAC now. (...) No problems with most modern car stereos either. mp3 is still the standard and probably will be for a while, but AAC is slowly catching up in terms of compatibility.


AAC will never catch up MP3. never ever.
Why? Imagine you are a normal non-audio-enthusaistic person:

- you don't know what AAC is about, but you certanly know what MP3 is.

- MP3 sounds good enough to you.

- MP3 has got acceptable file size for you.

- You've got an easy tool which can convert your CD to MP3s (for example WMP)

- You've got a music collection where every file is an MP3

=> Do you need a new lossy codec? - No.
      And why? - Because I'm satisfied with MP3

=> What could you want that MP3 can't offer you?
    - Maybe I want my music without lossy quality (AAC doesn't offer this too, but lossless codecs do)
    - Maybe I want to go totally open source (for example business activities) (AAC doesn't offer this too, but OGA does)
      - Maybe I need very small filesizes but keep transparency (AAC offers good quality at low bitrate but no transparency)


I think AAC has more patents in it than MP3 or am I wrong? ^^ I'd go the safe way and use Vorbis before I do somethong against a law because I forgot to buy a license...

I like AAC, no question. I'm very impressed what a good quality NeroAAC offers me in low bitrate. But I find it very marginal to completely switch to AAC.

Someday MP3 will be catched up by an other Audio format, but this format has to be revolutinary, like a new trend like "we don't want artifacts anymore"... MY theory is that this "new" audio format will be a lossless one. But this is only theoretical. It also could be that I'm wrong, and the industry says: "AAC IS THE NEW STANDARD. BASTA." ando there will be no more DAPs produced which support MP3. But let's be serious, this won't be going true.

Quote
with are yuor setting to obtain a standard vbr quality?


As I've said it before: q0.5 is usually said to be transparent (NeroAAC). Look to the HA recommendations!!
FB2K,APE&LAME

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #10 –
[quote name='memomai' date='Oct 1 2008, 14:37' post='591015']
I have... My iPod shuffle only plays iTune's encoded AAC files, but not Nero's.
Software issues: wrong length display of NeroAAC files in iTunes.
Missing HE-AAC on my DAPs, only LC-AAC.
[/quote]

A older version of Nero AAC does write the wrong track length on the MP4 container. Which can be fixed fixed with MP4Box, by using the "--ipod" switch.


[quote name='memomai' date='Oct 1 2008, 14:37' post='591015']
Quote

- MP3 sounds good enough to you.


Yes but at -V0 though. Since -V2 has too many drum smearing issues for me.

[quote name='memomai' date='Oct 1 2008, 14:37' post='591015']
Quote

- MP3 has got acceptable file size for you.

Not really at -V0 at all. I keep getting tracks at around 280 or 290kbps since I mostly listen to Metal.
[quote name='memomai' date='Oct 1 2008, 14:37' post='591015']
Quote

- You've got an easy tool which can convert your CD to MP3s (for example WMP)
[/qoute]
Nope, ripping CDs on WMP is just awfull to me. Using a dedicated CD ripper such as EAC is more awarding and foobar2000 is great for transcoding.
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #11 –
Quote
A older version of Nero AAC does write the wrong track length on the MP4 container. Which can be fixed fixed with MP4Box, by using the "--ipod" switch.


I still got the same problem with the newest NeroAAC encoder.
Just another problem with AAC which normal people don't want to waste their time on it.

Quote
Yes but at -V0 though. Since -V2 has too many drum smearing issues for me.


do a survey. How many people will tell you that a -V 6 encoded file sounds bad?


Quote
Nope, ripping CDs on WMP is just awfull to me. Using a dedicated CD ripper such as EAC is more awarding and foobar2000 is great for transcoding.


Sure it's awful (accuracy and quality  ), but easy-to-use and fast.

You are an HA user so I estimate you as an audio enthusiast, or similar. Other possibility: placebo. Since you don't bring valid ABX tests.

We're all individualists, but most people stay on comfort, and what work, that works and should stay working.

EDIT: grammar
FB2K,APE&LAME

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #12 –
Quote from: memomai on
You are an HA user so I estimate you as an audio enthusiast, or similar. Other possibility: placebo. Since you don't bring valid ABX tests.


I have done plenty and enough ABX tests and posted some them on HA, to but me off using -V2 or preset standard.
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #13 –
I think he does abx (/mnt) regularly . Point is I want a codec with mpc like toughness using sane bitrates (up to 200k)  BUT compatible with enough hardware. If AAC can do it over time i will switch.

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #14 –
Hell I can even ABX Nero AAC at q 55.

Code: [Select]
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.5.5
2008/10/01 15:39:43

File A: C:\Temp\Iron Maiden - Piece Of Mind\03. Flight Of Icarus.mp4
File B: C:\Rips\Iron Maiden - Piece Of Mind\03. Flight Of Icarus.flac

15:39:43 : Test started.
15:40:05 : 01/01  50.0%
15:40:10 : 02/02  25.0%
15:40:14 : 03/03  12.5%
15:40:18 : 04/04  6.3%
15:40:22 : 05/05  3.1%
15:40:26 : 06/06  1.6%
15:40:30 : 07/07  0.8%
15:40:34 : 08/08  0.4%
15:40:41 : 09/09  0.2%
15:40:51 : 10/10  0.1%
15:40:55 : 11/11  0.0%
15:41:00 : 12/12  0.0%
15:41:07 : 13/13  0.0%
15:41:12 : 14/14  0.0%
15:41:17 : Test finished.

 ---------- 
Total: 14/14 (0.0%)

Warbling on the vocals at around 1:52. I find it transparent on LAME at V2.

And here is another one/

Code: [Select]
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.5.5
2008/09/29 21:12:21

File A: C:\Temp\AAC q 55\Slipknot - All Hope Is Gone\04. Psychosocial.m4a
File B: C:\Rips\Slipknot - All Hope Is Gone\04. Psychosocial.flac

21:12:21 : Test started.
21:12:37 : 01/01  50.0%
21:12:57 : 02/02  25.0%
21:13:02 : 03/03  12.5%
21:13:13 : 04/04  6.3%
21:13:19 : 05/05  3.1%
21:13:24 : 06/06  1.6%
21:13:32 : 07/07  0.8%
21:13:37 : 08/08  0.4%
21:13:43 : 09/09  0.2%
21:13:54 : 10/10  0.1%
21:14:02 : 10/11  0.6%
21:14:04 : 11/12  0.3%
21:14:12 : 12/13  0.2%
21:14:16 : 13/14  0.1%
21:14:24 : 14/15  0.0%
21:14:28 : 15/16  0.0%
21:14:29 : Test finished.

 ---------- 
Total: 15/16 (0.0%)

The start of song at around 0:04 sounds wrong.

The tests were encoded on Nero's latest encoder and the Iron Maiden track problem appears on the old Fec 07 version aswell.
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #15 –
Can you try mpc -standard if you don't mind ?

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #16 –
Quote from: memomai on
Quote
I never had any issues with Nero AAC files

I have... My iPod shuffle only plays iTune's encoded AAC files, but not Nero's.
Software issues: wrong length display of NeroAAC files in iTunes.
Missing HE-AAC on my DAPs, only LC-AAC.


I will check this out. Did you rename your Nero encoded files to have the m4a extension? Is it a 1st or 2nd generation Shuffle?

Quote
I think AAC has more patents in it than MP3 or am I wrong? ^^ I'd go the safe way and use Vorbis before I do somethong against a law because I forgot to buy a license...


At least for the Nero AAC encoder/decoder all licenses have been paid. And once you acquire a product with paid AAC license, it can not be "unlicensed" anymore after that. It will remain legal to use forever.

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #17 –
Quote
I will check this out. Did you rename your Nero encoded files to have the m4a extension? Is it a 1st or 2nd generation Shuffle?


2nd gen & m4a extension using latest itunes firmware.

Quote
I have done plenty and enough ABX tests and posted some them on HA, to but me off using -V2 or preset standard.


Oh, ok, it seems that you have golden ears ^^ (in contrary to me, I've got my difficulties and need much time to detect problem samples, so I have to trust the ones who post their ABX results here)
FB2K,APE&LAME

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #18 –
Quote from: memomai on
NeroAAC is the recommended codec for AAC. Just take a look on the AAC - General area of HA.

HA does not officially recommend any specific AAC codec, period.

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti..._AAC_encoder.3F

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #19 –
Quote from: memomai on
Quote
I will check this out. Did you rename your Nero encoded files to have the m4a extension? Is it a 1st or 2nd generation Shuffle?


2nd gen & m4a extension using latest itunes firmware.


HE AAC files are indeed reported twice too long in iTunes. It seems they use the audio samplerate instead of the timescale to calculate the length. I'll see if we can work around this in a next version, but it might give all kinds of other problems. I'm guessing the fact that you use HE AAC is also the reason why your shuffle refuses to play the files.
When you use iTunes or iPod, never use HE AAC, use the -lc switch to force LC AAC output. The "HE" part will not be decoded by the iPod or iTunes anyway.

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #20 –
Quote from: memomai on
AAC will never catch up MP3. never ever.
Why? Imagine you are a normal non-audio-enthusaistic person:
[...]


Do you realize that the same that you've said with MP3 is true for MP4/AAC, if you switch WMP for iTunes?

Moreso, do you realize that clueless Windows media player users encode to WMA, not to MP3?

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #21 –
Quote from: shadowking on
Can you try mpc -standard if you don't mind ?

I did a quick test with mpenc 1.16 (beta) at standard.

Code: [Select]
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.5.5
2008/10/01 20:41:59

File A: C:\Rips\Iron Maiden - Piece Of Mind\03. Flight Of Icarus.flac
File B: C:\Temp\1 Flight Of Icarus.mpc

20:41:59 : Test started.
20:42:50 : 01/01  50.0%
20:42:56 : 02/02  25.0%
20:42:59 : 03/03  12.5%
20:43:05 : 04/04  6.3%
20:43:25 : 05/05  3.1%
20:43:27 : 06/06  1.6%
20:43:32 : 07/07  0.8%
20:43:45 : 08/08  0.4%
20:43:51 : 09/09  0.2%
20:43:57 : 10/10  0.1%
20:44:05 : 11/11  0.0%
20:44:10 : 12/12  0.0%
20:44:13 : Test finished.

 ---------- 
Total: 12/12 (0.0%)

Has a popping noise artifact at around 0:06 or 0:05, though 1:52 sounds fine.

I have have failed to ABX Psychosocial (got 5/12) at mpc standard, the track seems fine with LAME V2 aswell.

Anyway I tried out mpc on a another track at standard.

Code: [Select]
foo_abx 1.3.3 report
foobar2000 v0.9.5.5
2008/10/01 21:45:39

File A: C:\Rips\Fear Factory - Demanufacture\04. Replica.flac
File B: C:\Temp\Replica q 5.mpc

21:45:39 : Test started.
21:46:11 : 01/01  50.0%
21:46:18 : 02/02  25.0%
21:46:25 : 02/03  50.0%
21:46:31 : 03/04  31.3%
21:46:39 : 04/05  18.8%
21:46:48 : 05/06  10.9%
21:46:55 : 06/07  6.3%
21:47:01 : 07/08  3.5%
21:47:06 : 08/09  2.0%
21:47:17 : 09/10  1.1%
21:47:23 : 10/11  0.6%
21:47:32 : 11/12  0.3%
21:47:43 : 12/13  0.2%
21:47:49 : 13/14  0.1%
21:47:55 : 14/15  0.0%
21:48:04 : 15/16  0.0%
21:48:12 : 16/17  0.0%
21:48:14 : Test finished.

 ---------- 
Total: 16/17 (0.0%)

Warbling at 0:17

EDIT: Added a new mpc ABX test.
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #22 –
Quote from: MetalMessiah78 on
I too use Nero AAC files on my iPod 5.5G and have never had a problem with the over 700 cd's I've encoded. NEVER.

Just about everything supports AAC now. I have an old Windows Mobile smartphone running Windows Mobile 5, and it even plays AAC files without any problems. No problems with most modern car stereos either. mp3 is still the standard and probably will be for a while, but AAC is slowly catching up in terms of compatibility.


What setting do you use on neroaac?

I was thinking of ditching mp3 for aac, since i got a iPod anyway and LAME V0  just produces huge files on most of my music.
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #23 –
I'm currently using Foobar as the front end and am using the setting of .43, which produces files about 140 VBR. The reason I settled on that is because I could ABX iTunes AAC 10 out of 10 times all the way to 256 VBR, because I am very sensitive to highs and the smearing of the cymbals. I could ABX Nero AAC about 6 out of 10 times at this setting, but it was about as transparent as LAME at V2 or V3, I don’t remember, but the file size was a lot smaller. 

I have an 80gig and only have 8gigs left for new music, so I couldn’t go higher. I also primarily listen to Metal, so music that is very “noisy” for lack of a better word sounds totally acceptable, though not perfect. Less noisy music, such as Hard Rock, Country, Pop Rock, etc, sounds flawless.

By the way, this is with the last Nero encoder. I have not had a chance to ABX the new one.

new in aac what should i do to get cd quality

Reply #24 –
Quote
MY theory is that this "new" audio format will be a lossless one.


I totally agree. The only format that can potentially substitute MP3 are lossless formats. And that's only going to happen the day storage capacity becomes much cheaper and larger than it is today.