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Poll

Do you think high quality open source AAC codec is needed?

Yes,  I do.
[ 84 ] (81.6%)
No. Commercial AAC encoders are enough good.
[ 19 ] (18.4%)

Total Members Voted: 134

Topic: High quality AAC codec with open source? (Read 33765 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

I just think that open source codecs like LAME, Xvid, x264, Vorbis are highest quality codecs and wisely popular. They are better than their commercial competitors.
Many people help to improve and find bugs of open source codecs.
Why there is no open source high quality AAC encoder? What happens with FAAC?

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #1 –
Useless poll. Anyway as with all open source projects, they need people with the necessary knowledge and time to help improve them. If there's no (or not many) people to maintain the project then development stalls.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #2 –
* There is no need for AAC format at all. Plenty of open source codecs for other formats.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #3 –
In my opinion, Nero does an excellent job of updating their AAC encoder as they often come to these boards.  They also enlist the help of HA members to test things out.  It may not be open source but it is free, updated often, and they are open to input.  Apple is a bit more shut out with their AAC encoder but you will find an Apple AAC developer on here every once in a while (or on the Apple boards).

All-in-all, I see no need for an open source AAC encoder as FAAC had a hard enough time as it is and Nero is doing a good job with their current development processes.

Personally, I see no need for a replacement to the mp3 format just yet and there are far too many formats out there.  From personal testing, none of them have sound quality that is drastically above that of Lame 3.98b8 at the 128-192kbps bitrate range.  That is just me though and I plan on switching to AAC once Nero's encoder comes out only if it is able to provide quality above what Lame 3.98b8 can offer at a certain setting.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: j7n on
* There is no need for AAC format at all. Plenty of open source codecs for other formats.


Agree.

Ogg Vorbis aoTuV and several others are out there right now.  Open sourced and with development teams all it needs is greater support.
Zune 80, Tak -p4 audio library, Lossless=Choice

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #5 –
Anything open source is welcomed.

However, as someone already stated, why? Most people find Lame MP3 to be transparent enough. Too many codecs, to many confusion. As long as MP3 is still universally supported, and the fact most people find Lame -V 5 to be transparent, it will be hard for anything to be the replacement of MP3. Even Ogg Vorbis is not gaining as much support as I wish it would.
twitter.com/pika2000

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: pika2000 on
and the fact most people find Lame -V 5 to be transparent

yes, as true as most people find AAC to be transparent already at 96 kbit/s

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
In my opinion, Nero does an excellent job of updating their AAC encoder as they often come to these boards.  They also enlist the help of HA members to test things out.  It may not be open source but it is free, updated often, and they are open to input.  Apple is a bit more shut out with their AAC encoder but you will find an Apple AAC developer on here every once in a while (or on the Apple boards).

Yes, Nero and Apple AAC has a good quality. But is there any commercial mp3 encoder better then LAME? The same way open source AAC  encoder might have very high quality.

Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Personally, I see no need for a replacement to the mp3 format...

Nobody touched this item.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #8 –
AAC Licensing Fees
(please refrain from discussing the death of musepack)

Open source community need not to support such format, given the fact that both transparent and "cellphone quality" bitrates are covered by other codecs.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #9 –
I'm a bit confused about the negative responses here.

Nobody's suggesting a new format, and AAC is already about the second most widely supported format. Surely a FOSS implementation would be helpful for people doing FOSS audio work?

OTOH, would a truly FOSS implementation be possible? Aren't there patent problems?

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: IgorC on
Yes, Nero and Apple AAC has a good quality. But is there any commercial mp3 encoder better then LAME? The same way open source AAC  encoder might have very high quality.


Some have argued that FhG is better at some bitrates (and settings) than Lame with certain samples.  So yeah, there are conditions where a commercial mp3 encoder is better than Lame.  For the most part no, that is not the case.  I think that FAAC had its chance but the ball was just dropped with it.

Quote from: IgorC on
Nobody touched this item.


No, I am just stating that we first need to focus on what is out there before introducing yet another AAC encoder.  We have the CoreAudio/Apple AAC encoder, Nero AAC, FAAC, Helix AAC, and a couple of others yet none of them are able to vastly improve beyond what Lame mp3 does in the 128kbps-192kbps bitrate range.  So I think we should focus on improving what is already out there.  Then, once AAC becomes more mature, introduce an open source AAC encoder with the potential to pass commercially developed encoders in quality.  I think Nero is doing a pretty good job of enlisting the help of everyone here on HA though.  Nero might be commercially developed but the developers remain frequent visitors here so it is almost as if they are open source.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #12 –
You might as well complain about no open source WMA codec...

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Martel on
You might as well complain about no open source WMA codec...


How can you compare? WMA is proprietary, AAC is standardized meaning the spec can be got (bought?). Also, don't confuse the term codec - WMA has an OSS decoder, but no an OSS encoder.

The only reason there is no OSS AAC encoder is because no-one has wanted to improve FAAC or start a new project. Most of the FAAC devs went to Nero, which resulted in the Nero codec people use today.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #14 –
There is still a possibility that libavcodec would finally have an AAC encoder with a psymodel (GSOC)

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #15 –
Gabriel, it's kind of you to help Kostya with the aac codec. Hope that codec achieving good fruit eventually.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: senab on
Quote from: Martel on

You might as well complain about no open source WMA codec...


How can you compare? WMA is proprietary, AAC is standardized meaning the spec can be got (bought?). Also, don't confuse the term codec - WMA has an OSS decoder, but no an OSS encoder.

The only reason there is no OSS AAC encoder is because no-one has wanted to improve FAAC or start a new project. Most of the FAAC devs went to Nero, which resulted in the Nero codec people use today.



Um, there is a LOT of IP in any AAC encoder, tied to the bitstream, compression model, stereo coding model, stereo pair method, etc.  A LOT.

This makes "open source" an "open source" of patent violations, I'd think. You can't make a bitstream without tripping over patents.
-----
J. D. (jj) Johnston

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #17 –
But other standards like MP3, MPEG 4 ASP and H.264 are also patented. And there is x264 (open source H.264 encoder)  wich is the best encoder in quality terms at this moment.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Woodinville on
Um, there is a LOT of IP in any AAC encoder, tied to the bitstream, compression model, stereo coding model, stereo pair method, etc.  A LOT.

This makes "open source" an "open source" of patent violations, I'd think. You can't make a bitstream without tripping over patents.


That hasn't stopped LAME.  A company that's willing to license the patent can use the source without issues (without the confines of the LGPL).

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: senab on
Quote from: Martel on

You might as well complain about no open source WMA codec...


How can you compare? WMA is proprietary,


AAC and WMA are both proprietary, which is why you have to pay fees to use either.  The spec is available for AAC though, which is nice.

Quote from: senab on
AAC is standardized meaning the spec can be got (bought?). Also, don't confuse the term codec - WMA has an OSS decoder, but no an OSS encoder.


There is an open source WMA encoder, though I doubt the quality is very good.

Quote from: senab on
The only reason there is no OSS AAC encoder is because no-one has wanted to improve FAAC or start a new project.


So basically, just like the situation with WMA . . .

Anyway I'm not sure what good an open source AAC encoder would really be.  Nero and Apple are both pretty good, they're paying the license fees, and they're actually interested in improving support for the format.  I don't think the open source community has much interest at all in AAC at the moment, so wishing for an open source encoder doesn't make much sense.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #20 –
Quote from: IgorC on
But other standards like MP3, MPEG 4 ASP and H.264 are also patented. And there is x264 (open source H.264 encoder)  wich is the best encoder in quality terms at this moment.
I wouldn't be so confident about your claims as Mainconcept is also doing a pretty good job. It is not free, though.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Martel on
Quote from: IgorC on

But other standards like MP3, MPEG 4 ASP and H.264 are also patented. And there is x264 (open source H.264 encoder)  wich is the best encoder in quality terms at this moment.
I wouldn't be so confident about your claims as Mainconcept is also doing a pretty good job. It is not free, though.


x264 has had a lot of recent psy enhancements which give it much better quality than Mainconcept or Ateme. If its SoC projects get a move on it should be even better.

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Mike Giacomelli on
AAC and WMA are both proprietary, which is why you have to pay fees to use either.  The spec is available for AAC though, which is nice.

AAC is not "proprietary". It is an ISO standard.  Please keep the record straight.
Quote
Nero and Apple are both pretty good, they're paying the license fees, and they're actually interested in improving support for the format.


An ISO standard can (and many do) require licensing patents to practice. This is the case for MPEG-AAC (any variety).  Encoders are particularly tough in that there are patents that read on how to build the bitstream, etc.

You can evade some of them, but only by deliberately making the encoded quality worse.
-----
J. D. (jj) Johnston

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #23 –
Isn't FAAC open source?
FAAC can be high quality (not the best but high nowadays)
FB2K,APE&LAME

High quality AAC codec with open source?

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Woodinville on
Quote from: Mike Giacomelli on
AAC and WMA are both proprietary, which is why you have to pay fees to use either.  The spec is available for AAC though, which is nice.

AAC is not "proprietary".


I can be made to pay to use it, thus it is literally proprietary.  If there was no ownership, then I couldn't be made to pay. 

Quote from: Woodinville on
It is an ISO standard.  Please keep the record straight.


I never said otherwise.