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Topic: Nero AAC Development (Read 66102 times) previous topic - next topic
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Nero AAC Development

Reply #75 –
Wow some of you guys, make the much awaited version of Nero AAC, look like it was the Duke Nuke Nukem Forever or Chinese Democracy of lossy encoders 
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

Nero AAC Development

Reply #77 –
Quote from: seVen on
Quote from: /mnt on
...look like it was the Duke Nuke Nukem Forever...

I hope it doesn't take the same destiny... 

LOL, same here. Maybe the sound effects and and the soundtrack by GNR on DNF, will be encoded with a new version of Nero AAC .
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

Nero AAC Development

Reply #78 –
In the meantime my guess is that the Nero guys (have to) wait for the official release of Nero. Otherwise the free utility would be Ahead (pun intended) of the version for paying customers.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #79 –
Interesting!
And in VBR will change?
Will more efficient VBR

Nero AAC Development

Reply #80 –
Hey... maybe they will keep tuning it until the new Nero release and we'll have an extra half a year of tuning thrown in

Nero AAC Development

Reply #81 –
I recently thought of something.  Maybe Nero is waiting to release their newer AAC encoder until Apple releases their new hardware and software.  It would suck for Nero to release their new AAC encoder and then have it be incompatible with iTunes 8.0 (if that is even coming out this September/October) and the newer line of iPods.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #82 –
I hope that Nero cares just about (AAC-)standards and not about what Apple does.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #83 –
I see where you are coming from but the most popular and most successful lines of players are iPods.  Nero would be shooting themselves in the foot if their newer encoder does not work with newer iPods.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #84 –
Apple uses NeroAAC? I thought Apple had developed its own propriety AAC codec...?

Nero AAC Development

Reply #86 –
No one was suggesting that.

kornchild2002 suggested that - in light of the fact that Apple has announced their iPod Nano and iPod Touch lines will be refreshed on 9 September - Nero might be waiting to verify behavior of their next release on retail models of the full iPod line, and the expected corresponding iTunes update, before release.

If so, it would hopefully avoid/eliminate the frustrations some iPod users have felt with the previous two releases. If not related to the Nero team's timing, it at least can't hurt anything.

    - M.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #87 –
Then it is my fault, a misinterpretation on my part. I thought from what kornchild said meant that Apple used NeroAAC to encode their files, but now that I re-read what M repeated, I can assume that it just the decoding part kornchild was talking about. Sorry guys.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #88 –
I too am anticipating the new Nero decoder, but I honestly can't see how they can make it better. It already sounds fantastic. My only guess would be better sound quality at a smaller file size. My only suggestion would be to supply tags that the PS3 can read without having to do a lot of messing around for them to display properly. I understand that it is Sony that is to blame, but it would be cool if there was a viable fix.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #89 –
Quote from: MetalMessiah78 on
I too am anticipating the new Nero decoder, but I honestly can't see how they can make it better. It already sounds fantastic.

Compare it to last Apple QT true VBR. I did some abxs and found it better at least for 96 kbit/s.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #90 –
Quote from: M on
No one was suggesting that.

kornchild2002 suggested that - in light of the fact that Apple has announced their iPod Nano and iPod Touch lines will be refreshed on 9 September - Nero might be waiting to verify behavior of their next release on retail models of the full iPod line, and the expected corresponding iTunes update, before release.

If so, it would hopefully avoid/eliminate the frustrations some iPod users have felt with the previous two releases. If not related to the Nero team's timing, it at least can't hurt anything.

    - M.


Yes, that is precisely what I am saying.  I know that Nero would hate to release their new AAC encoder and then have it be incompatible with the updated version of iTunes (whether it be iTunes 8 or not) or the newer iPods.  iPods represent the vast majority of portable players on the market and in people's hands.  It would be a shame if Nero's AAC encoder didn't properly work.

As for the PS3 tags, talk to Sony about this.  Right now the Nero AAC encoder can make tags that are compatible with Apple devices.  This tagging system is then compatible with many other devices on the market such as car CD decks, other portable players, home theater systems, etc.  I am not quite sure how AAC tagging works but I would hate for Nero to change their tagging system just to gain PS3 compatibility but lose everything else.  That being said, the PSP can read Apple AAC tags just fine (or so I have been told) so I don't see why Sony hasn't updated the PS3 yet.  I believe that Sony has really dropped the ball with the PS3 when it comes to the little things.  AAC tag support, using an old version of Flash with their browser, using a terrible browser, buggy Divx/Xvid playback, and strange audio output procedures (why can't the PS3 output audio through HDMI and optical at the same time like the Xbox 360?) are just some of the things that Sony has done wrong with the PS3.

Well, let's see what Nero does.  I just wish that they would drop us a line giving us the general progress of things.  I don't see the necessity for being secretive about this unless they plan to give us something big with the next update.    Either way, I am patiently anticipating the release.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #91 –
Don't get me wrong. I would hate to lose compatibility with everything else just to have it work with PS3, as I primaritly use the songs with iTunes and iPod, but if it's something as simple as adding a few more tags to the metadata, that would be great. I know that Sony has dropped the ball and don't blame anyone else but them. So far that is the only area in which I have had a problem. Other than that, the PS3 is awesome and have not had any of the other problems you have mentioned, knock on wood.

I'll try out iTunes at 96 kps and see how it works. That might be great for my phone, as I also use it as a music player. Thank you for that suggestion.

Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Quote from: M on

No one was suggesting that.

kornchild2002 suggested that - in light of the fact that Apple has announced their iPod Nano and iPod Touch lines will be refreshed on 9 September - Nero might be waiting to verify behavior of their next release on retail models of the full iPod line, and the expected corresponding iTunes update, before release.

If so, it would hopefully avoid/eliminate the frustrations some iPod users have felt with the previous two releases. If not related to the Nero team's timing, it at least can't hurt anything.

    - M.


As for the PS3 tags, talk to Sony about this.  Right now the Nero AAC encoder can make tags that are compatible with Apple devices.  This tagging system is then compatible with many other devices on the market such as car CD decks, other portable players, home theater systems, etc.  I am not quite sure how AAC tagging works but I would hate for Nero to change their tagging system just to gain PS3 compatibility but lose everything else.  That being said, the PSP can read Apple AAC tags just fine (or so I have been told) so I don't see why Sony hasn't updated the PS3 yet.  I believe that Sony has really dropped the ball with the PS3 when it comes to the little things.  AAC tag support, using an old version of Flash with their browser, using a terrible browser, buggy Divx/Xvid playback, and strange audio output procedures (why can't the PS3 output audio through HDMI and optical at the same time like the Xbox 360?) are just some of the things that Sony has done wrong with the PS3.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #92 –
OK, I just didn't want you to think that it was Nero's problem why their AAC files don't display track tag information.  I am not sure that Nero can do anything about it though as, from my experience, the PS3 needs the AAC files to be wrapped in a 3gp container and not an mpeg-4 container.  I can read a mpeg-4 AAC audio file from a USB tumb drive, my PS3 won't read the track tag information, I can then add the track tag information, unplug the USB drive from my console, plug it back in, and then the PS3 won't read the track tag information again.  This leads me to believe that any track tag information added using the console, in an mpeg-4 AAC audio file, is written to some library type file ala iTunes.

Either way it sucks that Sony wants PS3 users to use the 3gp container for their AAC audio files.  That is like asking people to use the AVI container to store only mp3 audio.  Sure, the 3gp container is still supported on cellular platforms but the mpeg-4 container (again, all of this is for AAC audio) is more supported when it comes to hardware and portable devices.

We will see what Nero does though.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #93 –
I really don't know why the PS3 (I don't own one though) has problems with AAC support. My PSP and Sony Ericsson W910i, can play Nero AAC encoded files just fine. But my Xbox360 is a different story, it won't read the AAC tags, but plays them though..... Well I never had any luck with Microsoft's media player software anyway.
"I never thought I'd see this much candy in one mission!"

Nero AAC Development

Reply #94 –
Quote from: IgorC on
Quote from: MetalMessiah78 on
I too am anticipating the new Nero decoder, but I honestly can't see how they can make it better. It already sounds fantastic.
Compare it to last Apple QT true VBR. I did some abxs and found it better at least for 96 kbit/s.

It would be very nice to know more about how Nero compares to iTunes at 96kbps in private tests
Can you provide some samples where you can easily ABX difference?
(sorry if I missed some other thread about this, then please point me to it)

Quote from: kornchild2002 on
I just wish that they would drop us a line giving us the general progress of things.  I don't see the necessity for being secretive about this unless they plan to give us something big with the next update. 

As some people noticed, in most cases there is not much space for improvement in quality, so don't expect something "big" for stereo files. There might be big improvement for multichannel, but that has to be confirmed by users.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #95 –
Quote from: muaddib on
As some people noticed, in most cases there is not much space for improvement in quality, so don't expect something "big" for stereo files. There might be big improvement for multichannel, but that has to be confirmed by users.


That's kind of what I am hoping for.  My view is that there isn't much to gain in terms of qualitative improvement for 160+ kbps files in Nero AAC.  The real advancement for this and other lossy encoders has to come in the area of qualitative improvements for files in smaller bitrates, in other words better quality with smaller file size, with the 96kbps ballpark being a good place to start, but eventually getting to 64 kbps.  Leaving aside the topic of HE-AAC, getting equal perceived quality from a blind ABX test between a 64kbps AAC file and 128 kbps (insert your own encoder here) file would be a true breakthrough in AAC encoder development, in my view.  Do you developers see this as the next area of challenge?

Nero AAC Development

Reply #96 –
Quote from: muaddib on
As some people noticed, in most cases there is not much space for improvement in quality, so don't expect something "big" for stereo files. There might be big improvement for multichannel, but that has to be confirmed by users.


I am mainly waiting for the features that give me Xbox 360 and Zen compatibility.  Right now, I can encode my tracks using the latest Nero AAC encoder and the files will work with my iPod.  I can then use foobar2000's optimize feature and the AAC files will work perfectly with my Xbox 360 tags and all and my iPods.  There is a little tool out there to make AAC files compatible with the Zen, I use that and everything is fine except for one thing.  My AAC files will work with my iPods and Zen but not my Xbox 360.  So I have yet to fully switch to Nero AAC given the fact that I would have to keep re-optimizing or keep running the AAC files through the Creative tool (it isn't made by Creative though).

The new AAC encoder is supposed to produce Xbox 360, Zen, and iPod compatible files from the get go.  So that is what I am really waiting for.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #97 –
Quote from: muaddib on
It would be very nice to know more about how Nero compares to iTunes at 96kbps in private tests
Can you provide some samples where you can easily ABX difference?
(sorry if I missed some other thread about this, then please point me to it)

I want to help to development but I don't promise as I don't have time.
Maybe another members can do some tests with last Nero and Apple

I didn't post the results of my latests test. Now I don't have those files. But the results were pretty the same as for old versions of Apple and Nero like here http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=54967

From the results of  this old test: iTunes - 4.60, Nero - 4.33
My last results at 96kbit/s ( with Apple (not itunes) with highest quality settings and true VBR (it's real 96kbit/s, not 100-105 kbit/s) and Nero last version 1.1.34.x) were : Apple 4.7,  Nero 4.4

Nero AAC Development

Reply #98 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
OK, I just didn't want you to think that it was Nero's problem why their AAC files don't display track tag information.  I am not sure that Nero can do anything about it though as, from my experience, the PS3 needs the AAC files to be wrapped in a 3gp container and not an mpeg-4 container.  I can read a mpeg-4 AAC audio file from a USB tumb drive, my PS3 won't read the track tag information, I can then add the track tag information, unplug the USB drive from my console, plug it back in, and then the PS3 won't read the track tag information again.  This leads me to believe that any track tag information added using the console, in an mpeg-4 AAC audio file, is written to some library type file ala iTunes.

Either way it sucks that Sony wants PS3 users to use the 3gp container for their AAC audio files.  That is like asking people to use the AVI container to store only mp3 audio.  Sure, the 3gp container is still supported on cellular platforms but the mpeg-4 container (again, all of this is for AAC audio) is more supported when it comes to hardware and portable devices.

We will see what Nero does though.


Not at all. I know that Sony is to blame for the faulty tagging problems. I know it would be just too easy for Sony to rectify the problem by issuing an update. I was just hoping it would be as easy as adding a few more lines to the meta data and problem is solved. But, I rather maintain compatibility for iTunes and iPod as that is my primary listening method when it comes to music.

Normally I just use Twonky Media for streaming and the music streams from my computer to my PS3 flawlessly without any messed up meta data, so that's good enough for me. I was just thinking about getting a larger hard drive for the PS3, loading up all my tunes on there, and turning it into the ultimate multimedia device. Hopefully Sony will one day get it right. I'm sure it's something as easy as a software fix they can add to the next firmware update.

Still haven't had a chance to ABX iTunes AAC and Nero AAC at 96kbs, but I'll try to by the end of the week. I'm very interested in this myself.