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Topic: LP Newbie needs a better needle (Read 18514 times) previous topic - next topic
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LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #25
Might still need to replace the needle.  Not sure yet.


Unknown pick-up of unknown age? Replacing would be the default option.

Check whether it is a T4P a.k.a. P-mount thing. They look like this: http://www.lptunes.com/P-mount-T4P-phono-c...idges-s/201.htm
Both Ortofon, Shure, Audio-Technica and Grado sell those, as well as the more common twin screw mounts.

LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #26
Was given a turntable.  It works, but I haven't hooked it up to the computer yet for a comparison.  Might still need to replace the needle.  Not sure yet.  It is a Zenith C585W.  Looked on the internet and can't find anything about it.

Like you I found very little information about the C585W on the net. However, what I did glean was that it's a "record player" as a opposed to a turntable - presumably some kind of all-in-one unit with built-in amp and speakers. Moreover, I found a site that sells replacement needles for it, and the image clearly shows a flip-over needle as used in cheap crystal and ceramic cartridges.

These two small nuggets of info lead me to a tentative conclusion that the C585W is likely to be little better (if any) than the Numark PT01 you started out with. If you could post some photos of the turntable, some of us around here could probably make a slightly less uninformed guess about its quality.

Back to the bottom line: If you're serious about making good transfers of your LPs, you can't do it on a shoestring. Get a decent turntable. Avoid any kind of auto-changer. Avoid pretty much all turntables with any kind of automatic arm return (although Dual did make a few of that type that were OK).

LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #27
.
In print, out-of-print, you own it on another format, you own it on the same format, you only downloaded it, you got it from a friend or family member, you're trying before you buy, you're making/offering copies of it for educational purposes, you're going to remix it, it's not a perfect copy, you're only using a snippet, you're not making any money off it, it's public domain in the country you got it from or somewhere else in the world ... none of these rationalizations matter; as far as U.S. law is concerned, someone owns the copyright, and in the U.S. that owner can take you to civil court for making copies of it (or publicly playing it, or transmitting it digitally). The federal government could also take you to criminal court, though I don't think they've done that to anyone yet.


This statement is contrary to some in the reference you linked.

LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #28
This statement is contrary to some in the reference you linked.

I don't see how. You're looking at the Sound Recordings section, right?

Was given a turntable. [...] It is a Zenith C585W.

My web search indicates that that may be the model number of a pair of speakers, which, along with the brand name, makes me wonder if you've inherited one of those hollow plastic record-player-amp-and-speakers units which is unlikely to be any better than the Numark. Is the cartridge moveable or removable (i.e. can you see screws on the headshell)? And does the turntable have anything on it for fine-tuning the speed? If not, and especially if it's belt drive, I'd be worried about it playing at the wrong speed (i.e you set it on 45 RPM and it actually spins at 46.2 or whatever), in which case it'll need a new belt and maybe an adjustment of the motor control, and even then, no guarantees.

LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #29
a used turntable.  Then up the cartridge.


Tip [pun intended]: Stay away from "DJ" cartridges. Back in old days when I was doing vinyl, the following was "conventional wisdom" (all reservations made):

1) They are constructed to backscratch (drive in reverse). Nice feature for DJs and party animals, but that means that part of the price pays something else than sound quality.
2) Often, heavier wear on the vinyl itself (sometimes they weigh >3 grams on the LP, "hi-fi" pick-ups usually 2 or sometimes less)

Besides, the physical tip is often bigger. That is, now you have used a "DJ" cartridge, you might experience that a "hi-fi" cartridge (even a reasonably-priced Ortofon or Shure or Audio-Technica) goes deeper into the groove and reads the groove where you have not yet worn it. However, if you bought your LPs second-hand, a smaller tip might mean you might start playing it "where the previous owner has worn it".
My experience is that a record wrecked with a lousy cartridge/stylus will sound worse replayed with a good cartridge than a bad one. Also elliptical is more critical of wear than spherical. If you're going to declick and denoise them afterwards then it's less of an issue (i.e. that will hide a lot of the extra crap that a better cartridge will reveal), but I suspect it still matters.

misterelie, what did you play the records on before you thought about copying them onto your computer? Anyway, read cliveb's excellent advice earlier on - he gave that advice for free, but it was far more valuable than that!

Cheers,
David.

LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #30
I believe it's perfectly legal to download out of print recordings.

It depends on where you reside.  In the US it is not legal to download anything that is protected by copyright, regardless of whether or not it is still in print.
I think a safer statement might be "If it was me, I'd try downloading needle drops of my albums", rather than "this is legal to do". I don't know of any copyright law, including the first one, which cancels the copyright just because something is out of print - though there have been discussions about including such a clause at various times, and maybe there is one in some territories.


You'd also be amazed what music _has_ been reissued. Unless those reissues are bodged, you're probably better off seeking those out instead of trying to digitise them yourself.

Cheers,
David.

LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #31
This statement is contrary to some in the reference you linked.

I don't see how. You're looking at the Sound Recordings section, right?


Yes.  Try reading it again.  You claim everything is covered by copyright, the list has loads of limitations and exclusions.

Aside from that, you write:
Quote
. Unless you have a license, in writing, from the record companies, permitting a particular kind of copying, you better believe they reserve the right to sue your pants off, no matter how benign the activity.


I guess I could also sue you for quoting a snippet from my post as it has implicit copyright.  If I did you would no doubt prevail in court with an argument of fair use.  Apparently that's protection enough that you feel safe doing it, and so do I.

LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #32
the list has loads of limitations and exclusions.

All of which I am sure you were fully aware when you decided to share your expertise on the subject and then use this discussion as a forum for your unsolicited and off-topic diatribe about public policy, no doubt.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #33
the list has loads of limitations and exclusions.

All of which I am sure you were fully aware when you decided to share your expertise on the subject and then use this discussion as a forum for your unsolicited and off-topic diatribe about public policy, no doubt.


Actually, I had no idea that Afghanistan hadn't signed on to the Berne convention before reading the reference.
Of course I was aware when I decided to respond.  That sure beats posting without awareness.

Here I just called someone out for making a false blanket statement citing a reference that didn't back it up.

If that statement questions the legality the original topic (digitizing LP's) or the alternative of downloading rips of the same record (a branch I did not originate) you can decide that they are off topic but IMO a direct response to the statement won't be *more* off topic.

LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #34
At least someone actually cited a reference!

Lest we forget, this branch of the discussion originated with someone giving a blanket statement suggesting it's perfectly legal to download out of print recordings.  At best this may only be true within certain exceptions which you have so far failed to corroborate with any supporting evidence.

What you think should be law or your personal objection to what is law (ie. Disney) is and has always been irrelevant to this discussion.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #35
Well, I read it again, and I don't see the "loads of exceptions". Nearly every combination of circumstances in the first two columns yields, in the third column, non-public domain status for decades to come. Maybe you are referring to the rows for non-US recordings "not in the public domain in its home country as of 1 Jan 1996"? The table clearly says those recordings won't be public domain until 2067, 2068, 70 years after the death of the creator, or 95 or 120 years after creation. Or maybe you're referring to the exceptions for recordings from various countries not well-known in the US for their musical output; even if any of those are in your collection, the circumstances under which they're public domain doesn't seem to be worth mentioning.

To the OP: sorry about getting so off-topic. As greynol pointed out, it resulted from someone's assertion that out-of-print recordings weren't protected by copyright. What one is likely to get away with, and whether copyright laws and the reactions of record companies are appropriate doesn't enter into it; I just don't like to let such statements go without a response, since the actual public domain status of sound recordings is much less favorable than people like to believe.

 

LP Newbie needs a better needle

Reply #36
You could move to a different country (almost any other country - the USA is almost alone in keeping sound recordings in copyright until 2067!), legally acquire the out-of-copyright recordings in that country, and then move back to the USA with these recordings.

Though the RIAA believes (IIRC!) that bringing such recordings into the USA is an illegal act.

I think the OP should just buy a better turntable!

Cheers,
David.

 
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