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Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Hi, out of interest and I know it depends from the encoder: Just had a look into the compression values of my lossless files (all encoded with TAK from normal to max). I mainly have IDM (1/3) music files and Classical orchestral (2/3), 577 files to be precise. All in all, for classical music, my experience is that lossless compression is fun, it often clocks in between 400-600 kbps.
I was surprised electronic music does often compress worse, surprising for me.

But in case of my "worst compression" winner it's not surprising that it's an electronica track, because maybe of it's complexity.

My winner is: Autechre - Gantz Graf (971 kbps with TAK 5 max. /Tak v.1.03)

The loser isn't too interesting, because it's stuff with lots of silence (ae/hafler/"aeo3") followed by many classical tracks starting at 366 kbps...

What's your winner?

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #1
Hi, out of interest and I know it depends from the encoder: Just had a look into the compression values of my lossless files (all encoded with TAK from normal to max). I mainly have IDM (1/3) music files and Classical orchestral (2/3), 577 files to be precise. All in all, for classical music, my experience is that lossless compression is fun, it often clocks in between 400-600 kbps.
I was surprised electronic music does often compress worse, surprising for me.

But in case of my "worst compression" winner it's not surprising that it's an electronica track, because maybe of it's complexity.

My winner is: Autechre - Gantz Graf (971 kbps with TAK 5 max. /Tak v.1.03)

The loser isn't too interesting, because it's stuff with lots of silence (ae/hafler/"aeo3") followed by many classical tracks starting at 366 kbps...

What's your winner?
Reef - [2000] Getaway\02 - Reef - Superhero.flac = 1133.1kbps (FLAC -8).
(same file, lossyWAV -3 processed, FLAC -5 -b 512 = 374.6kbps )
lossyWAV -q X -a 4 -s h -A --feedback 2 --limit 15848| FLAC -5 -e -p -b 512 -P=4096 -S-

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #2
Would you mind testing this file with other codecs, such as flac, WavPack and Monkey's Audio for comparison purposes?

I'm not personally interested in ALAC, WMAL, TTA or OptimFrog, but others might be.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #3
I assume only CD music counts.

Modern Talking - [2001] America - 04. SMS to My Heart

FLAC 1133 kBit/s [80%]

Very loud (compressed) recording.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #4
No surprises.

Gantz Graf:
- with "reference libFLAC 1.2.1 20070917" at -8: 1065 kbps
- with latest Wavpack at extra high (-m -i -q -hh -x6): 1025 kbps

I have no monkeys encoder/never used it.

I reckon compressed "loud" music with as much as possible use of signals over the whole frequency range is what counts?

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #5
And the award goes to... the white noise, of course!

Edit: could anyone try this out please?
stimulating the audio nerve directly

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #6
I have no monkeys encoder/never used it.

Pity.  I'm betting the results will be lower than TAK using the Extra High setting, if not the High setting.

Care to give it a shot?

mac.exe <Input File> <Output File> -c3000 (for High)
mac.exe <Input File> <Output File> -c4000 (for Extra High)
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #7
Pity.  I'm betting the results will be lower than TAK using the Extra High setting, if not the High setting.

Care to give it a shot?
OK, Gantz Graf with monkeys at -c4000: 963 kbps, very quick encode. But searching within tracks is pretty slow with monkeys?

And the award goes to... the white noise, of course!

Edit: could anyone try this out please?
Interesting. 1 Minute of white noise created with Magix Samplitude: 679k average with TAK@pmax. EDIT: But the generated noise is at 50% volume. The normalized, 100% volume level white noise is at 812 kbps tak.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #8
Atari Teenage Riot - Revolution Action (Various Artists - POP 2000)
FLAC 1.2.0 -8: 1167 kbps
FLAC 1.1.4 -8: 1165 kbps (interesting, isn't it?)
MAC -high: 1150 kbps

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #9
OK, Gantz Graf with monkeys at -c4000: 963 kbps, very quick encode. But searching within tracks is pretty slow with monkeys?

Perhaps a very slight delay with Extra High, but not with the High setting (do you have a number for this?).

You'll probably think the decoding is lethargic, and it is compared to the other three codecs.

Thanks for trying this out.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #10
Venetian Snares + Speedranch - Halfway Up the Stairway of Mucus

1295 kbps with FLAC 1.2.0 -8
RG track gain = -16.26
 

I suppose only someone like Merzbow could come close to this.


60s white noise created by Audition (strength 40, uncorrelated channels) had 1386 kbps.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #11
OK, Gantz Graf with monkeys at -c4000: 963 kbps, very quick encode. But searching within tracks is pretty slow with monkeys?

Perhaps a very slight delay with Extra High, but not with the High setting (do you have a number for this?).
Gantz Graf/Monkeys c3000: 982 kbps. Encoding maybe 8 seconds . Seeking inside this file is good and I must admit at my previous test I had gapless crossfader in my dsp chain. Good stuff. Does it support piping?

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #12
If the noise can be compressed, it's not white enough.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #13
Uh, heavy metal routinely makes it well into the 1000+ kbps...

Last song on my playlist, for instance... Dimmu Borgir, The Invaluable Darkness: 1158 kbps, TAK 1.0.2 High Max....

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #14
Gantz Graf/Monkeys c3000: 982 kbps. Encoding maybe 8 seconds . Seeking inside this file is good and I must admit at my previous test I had gapless crossfader in my dsp chain. Good stuff. Does it support piping?
The version I linked supports decoding to stdout and encoding from stdin, but these do not work with foobar2000 for some reason.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=540026

Thanks for posting the results for MAC High.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

 

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #16
Besides some modern clippressed albums made by loudness war, which go over 1000 kbit/s with flac -8,
I recommend those DTS CDs.
a guns n roses best of in 5.1 dts reaches 1264 k,
the DTS Santana - Abraxas gets 1256 k !
But still a noticeable compression compared to 1411 k.
Of course, the DTS CDs consist of nearly white or pink? noise in wav 16 bit, 44.1 kHZ stereo PCM format.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #17
If the noise can be compressed, it's not white enough.


Quote
True zen. :-)


That made my day. Thank you! :-)
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #18
Besides some modern clippressed albums made by loudness war, which go over 1000 kbit/s with flac -8...


I listen mostly to rock and pop (almost all kinds) and Apple Lossless can compress sometimes above 1000 kbps. I noticed that the louder the music is the higher the compression rate goes and larger the file size is.
Mono files however compress around 600 kbps (probably because of some kind of joint stereo technique being used.)


Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #20
Venetian Snares + Speedranch - Halfway Up the Stairway of Mucus

1295 kbps with FLAC 1.2.0 -8
RG track gain = -16.26
 

I suppose only someone like Merzbow could come close to this.


60s white noise created by Audition (strength 40, uncorrelated channels) had 1386 kbps.

OMG!!! Well that definately shows the correlation between noise and heavy compression 

Can't beat yours, but my winner is (House): Studio B: C'mon Get It On, 1166 kbps with FLAC 1.2.0 -8, RG: -10.41. Yet, it's quite nice compressed, but it's sound allows for heavy compression.

Edit: Why not include best compression?
Enya: From Where I Am, 356 kbps, though peak is very low: 0.23, +10,53
Röyksopp: Tristesse Globale, 380 kbps, with peak and RG 0.73, -1,13 seems a fair comparison
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #21
Edit: Why not include best compression?

There are a lot of albums out there with minutes of silence in the last track, separating the "officially" last song from a "hidden track". The longer the silence, the better the compression.

For example, i have "Nirvana - All Apologies" off "In Utero" at 321 kbps (FLAC 1.2.0 -8) - with a length of 31:32 minutes.

However, I found only only album that has a separate track juist for the silence. So, beat this:

Track 13 off "Spillsbury - 2" - 13:13 minutes of pure silence
1 (one) kbps with FLAC 1.1.2 - I guess there is not use in trying other compressors :-)

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #22

Edit: Why not include best compression?

There are a lot of albums out there with minutes of silence in the last track, separating the "officially" last song from a "hidden track". The longer the silence, the better the compression.

For example, i have "Nirvana - All Apologies" off "In Utero" at 321 kbps (FLAC 1.2.0 -8) - with a length of 31:32 minutes.

However, I found only only album that has a separate track juist for the silence. So, beat this:

Track 13 off "Spillsbury - 2" - 13:13 minutes of pure silence
1 (one) kbps with FLAC 1.1.2 - I guess there is not use in trying other compressors :-)

Yeah, such like the white noise example you can always mess with the content to fit your claim. Additionally, you can cut off the silence start/end to get a higher rate - I didn't.

I DID check this before I posted my best compression rates - There's no silence.
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #23
My winner is: Autechre - Gantz Graf (971 kbps with TAK 5 max. /Tak v.1.03)


OT, but have you seen the video for that?  Incredible.  I wouldn't be surprised if it'd win worst video compression, too. 

But yes, with classical, particularly with solo piano, I sometimes have to check if I'm actually listening to my lossless files based on the kbps.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #24
Work Title : Black Album (Jpn 2006 Rem)
Performer : Metallica
Track/Movement Title : So What

Sample Rate : 44100 Hz
Channels : 2
Bits Per Sample : 16
Bitrate : 1106 kbps
Codec : Monkey's Audio
Codec Profile : Monkey's Audio Extra High

 
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