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Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #25
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it mathematicaly proven that average lossless compression rates cannot be better than 50%?

Isn't it also proven that bitrate can actually go up in worse-case lossless scenarios?

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #26
Isn't it also proven that bitrate can actually go up in worse-case lossless scenarios?

I haven't seen the proof for the first question, but I have for this one.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #27
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it mathematicaly proven that average lossless compression rates cannot be better than 50%?

Isn't it also proven that bitrate can actually go up in worse-case lossless scenarios?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless_data...ion#Limitations

Actually if we compress without loss *all* (there are 2^(n*8) different possible files of size n bytes) possible files the best possible average compression ratio is 0%, i.e. no compression. The best windows compressor in that case is the COPY command

However the files that the people use and compress (usually the one with meaningful content, unlike most files which are white noise) are a very small fraction of all possible files. Therefore a program can compress most actual files but it will increase the size of most possible files.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #28
I was about to point out something obvious, but wikipedia had it covered already...

Quote
Any lossless compression algorithm that makes some files shorter must necessarily make some files longer, but it is not necessary that those files become very much longer. Most practical compression algorithms provide an "escape" facility that can turn off the normal coding for files that would become longer by being encoded. Then the only increase in size is a few bits to tell the decoder that the normal coding has been turned off for the entire input. For example, DEFLATE compressed files never need to grow by more than 5 bytes per 65,535 bytes of input.

Cheers,
David.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #29
Best Compression:

Exhumed - Disfigured Corpse
161 kbps
TAK 1.0.3 @ TAK 5 Max


Worst Compression:

Nightrage - Release
1160 kbps
TAK 1.0.3 @ TAK 5 Max

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #30
Ha! Just a few week ago, I checked some of my songs out of couriosity which had the highest lossless bitrates, and whether it is possible to guess the bitrate by listening to it... Nice to see a thread for that.

Anyway:
Codec: Monkey Audio - High
Highest bitrate, 1st place: 1111kbps (Ayumi Hamasaki - Depend on You)
Highest bitrate, 2nd place: 1107kbps (Ayumi Hamasaki - Depend on You [different remix])
Lowest bitrate, 1st place: 290kbps (Arvo Pärt - Solitudine-Stato D'Animo)
Lowest bitrate, 2nd place: 302kbps (Arvo Pärt - Berliner Messe - Agnus Dei)

The "Für Alina"-Album by Arvo Pärt had even slightler lower bitrates, but I do not have those files anymore.

- Most strongly compressed files (up to 400kbps) are not necessarily silent, but have very little noise and sounds with relatively few overtones, and are slow in general.
- Uncompressible files (above 1000kbps) are typically highly compressed (sound weird, I know...) and fast, altought there are a few unexpected exceptions.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #31
Just checked my small lossless collection, the maximum there is 1067kbps, Monkey's Audio (insane): Die Toten Hosen - Testbild (live). Replaygain is just -8.48. I don't use Insane anymore because it's too slow for the gain. The same file encoded with High is just 8kbps larger.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #32
Brian Eno's Neroli compresses down to (coincidentally) 320kb/s with FLAC 1.2.0 -8, and there's no silence in the track.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #33
Venetian Snares + Speedranch - Halfway Up the Stairway of Mucus

1295 kbps with FLAC 1.2.0 -8
RG track gain = -16.26
 

I suppose only someone like Merzbow could come close to this.


Ya think?

Merzbow: I Lead You Towards Glorious Times (from "Venereology"). Compressed with FLAC 1.1 -5 a while ago.

Bitrate: 1393kbps
RG track gain: -20.64db

I'd say Merzbow doesn't as much "come close to this" as it does "blow it out of the water".

Quote
60s white noise created by Audition (strength 40, uncorrelated channels) had 1386 kbps.


I knew it. Merzbow is less compressible than white noise.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #34
thats because Merzbow is pure darkness

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #35
All files are FLAC --best and stereo except the last one, encoded using FLAC 1.1.4 and 1.2.1

Accuface – Re-Energize Your Soul (Tunnel Trance Force Vol. 14): 44100 Hz, 16 Bit, Track gain -6.05 dB, 1153 kbps
Jonah Dempcy – Mother Matrix Most Mysterious (Synchretic Beliefs): 44100 Hz, 24 Bit, Track Gain -1.49 dB, 1215 kbps
Historic du Soldat: 96000 Hz, 24 Bit, Track gain -3.50 dB, 3000 kbps
Yes – Roundabout (6 seconds sample): 96000 Hz, 24 Bit, 5.1, Track gain -1.60 dB: 7766 kbps
FLAC.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #36
To the idea: strong musical compression (limiting) --> less lossless compression:
Strong musical compression introduces lots of square waves which contain much energy in high spectral parts which is very similar to noise. That would explain the relation to compressibility.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #37
To the idea: strong musical compression (limiting) --> less lossless compression:
Strong musical compression introduces lots of square waves which contain much energy in high spectral parts which is very similar to noise. That would explain the relation to compressibility.


Square waves are in fact quite easy to compress (just predict "this sample=next sample"). But not-quite-square waves that occur with limiting (without actual clipping) could be hard.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #38
The low bitrates happen with files with many leading zeros on each sample (i.e. quiet!), but also with files with many trailing zeros on each sample (i.e. lossyWAV).

This way, you can make "normal" music get below 256kbps within FLAC, but it's no longer lossless - in fact it sounds quite horrible because though it says it's 44.1kHz 16bits stereo, there's only about 4 bits left! (This is a missuse of lossyWAV of course - default settings shoudl be transparent).

If anyone ever uses something like lossyWAV for a "sound effect" or a trick on a CD, you could have a normal (not quiet, not simple, not slow) yet very compressible track.

Cheers,
David.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #39
It is far more likely that somebody could release a CD where the bit reduction is not the last step (it could be done before downsampling to 44100), or could pump the reduced data through an analogue link. This way the material would still sound horrible while being uncompressible.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #40
Funny, best and worst awards belong to the same group. Wonder who?

Oasis - My Big Mouth [Be Here Now]: 1143 kb/s, 5:03, FLAC -6
Oasis - Better Man [Heathen Chemistry]: 319 kb/s, 38:03 (pure silence for the most part), FLAC -6

Of course, as you may expect, Oasis is all over the higher ranks of the list.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #41
Both flac --best but different versions:

Terrorgruppe -- Videokamera: 1178 kb/s reference libFLAC 1.1.1 20041001
Pjotr Tschaikowski -- Piano Trio a-Moll op. 50, Tema con variazioni- Andante con moto (piano: Martha Argerich): 304 kb/s libFLAC 1.2.0 20070715

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #42
Funny, best and worst awards belong to the same group. Wonder who?

Oasis - My Big Mouth [Be Here Now]: 1143 kb/s, 5:03, FLAC -6
Oasis - Better Man [Heathen Chemistry]: 319 kb/s, 38:03 (pure silence for the most part), FLAC -6

Of course, as you may expect, Oasis is all over the higher ranks of the list.


That second example is kind of cheating.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #43
That second example is kind of cheating.

OK, then let's try the next in the list:

U2 - 4th of July [The Unforgettable Fire]: 460 kb/s, 2:13, FLAC -6

Better?

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #44
Thus far I haven't seen anything of mine higher

Merzbow - Degradation of Tapes - 1208 kbps (WavPack; -h)

Generally speaking, most noise is going to get it done

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #45
I rip to images exclusively so the album with the highest lossless bitrate is...

The Darkness' Permission to Land @ 1063kbps w/ FLAC (reference libFLAC 1.2.0 20070715) -8
... I don't even like this CD.

There must be something higher on my network back home, I only have the recent CDs I've purchased on had as lossless.
OP can't edit initial post when a solution is determined  :'-(

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #46
001. Röyksopp - [The Understanding (Limited Edition) #05] Follow My Ruin
1040 kbps TAK 5 max
1066 kbps reference libFLAC 1.2.1 20070917

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #47
Worst Compression:
Give it Away, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Greatest hits album: 1206kbps. FLAC level 5

Best Compression:
Rondenas, Dennis Koster: 495kbps. FLAC Level 5
Dissent!

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #48
Wow, for Worst Compression I don't have anything in my collection anywhere near these others.

For Best Compression, do audiobooks count?

Some of the discs in the first Harry Potter book will drop below 300 kbps.

Your highest lossless compression kbps value?

Reply #49
Worst with ALAC is Freestylers - Painkiller at 1102kbps. Best without any silence is Vespertilio from the Batman Begins OST at 545 kbps.

 
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