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Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #50 –
Quote from: shadowking on
I've also observed an interesting phenomenon that staring at speakers or a TV across the room while using headphone + keeping head still reinforces a positive 'illusion' and thus results in better impression of stereo image. Staring at the PC screen isn't as good.


Agreed...  Have you tried closing your eyes?  I think it's well-known on this forum that visual perception can have a strong influence on auditory perception.

Also, have you tried the crossfeed plugin in Jriver Media Center?  I think they offer a free trial.

Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #51 –
Quote from: shadowking on
I would like some feedback on :  bs2b - 360hz / 8db + channel mixer -  stereo-Width=1.25, upmix=4ch copy...


I've tried it, and yes: 360 Hz (more exactly: 370 Hz - I didn't manage to use 360 Hz) is enough for the effect. Your combination has a nice sound though I personally prefer stereo-width=1.10 and having the channel-mixer the first plugin the list.
But as I wrote I prefer the Meier crossfeed plugin, crossfeed level 2, over bs2b, though the difference is rather small.
After having enjoyed the stereo convolver's good 3d effect with my Fidelio X1 for quite a while I missed the vividness of the sound I am used to when listening to my Grado SR80e or Fidelio X1 without any additional procedure. So I came back to the channel-mixer + lightweight equalizing + Meier crossfeed plugin. Very good for me also with the Grados which I appreciate a lot.

It's all a matter of personal taste and what kind of compromise to accept.
lame3995o -Q1.7
opus --bitrate 140

Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #53 –
I use for binaural listening experience the VST Convolver and  this binaural impulse response files.  I use it for  music (foobar) and movies (MPC-HC) with 7.1 and also stereo. I really like it.

Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #54 –
Quote from: halb27 on
Quote from: shadowking on
I would like some feedback on :  bs2b - 360hz / 8db + channel mixer -  stereo-Width=1.25, upmix=4ch copy...


I've tried it, and yes: 360 Hz (more exactly: 370 Hz - I didn't manage to use 360 Hz) is enough for the effect. Your combination has a nice sound though I personally prefer stereo-width=1.10 and having the channel-mixer the first plugin the list.
But as I wrote I prefer the Meier crossfeed plugin, crossfeed level 2, over bs2b, though the difference is rather small.
After having enjoyed the stereo convolver's good 3d effect with my Fidelio X1 for quite a while I missed the vividness of the sound I am used to when listening to my Grado SR80e or Fidelio X1 without any additional procedure. So I came back to the channel-mixer + lightweight equalizing + Meier crossfeed plugin. Very good for me also with the Grados which I appreciate a lot.

It's all a matter of personal taste and what kind of compromise to accept.


Thanks for the feedback. In my setup putting mixer first disables bs2b for some reason (if using 4ch).
I arrived at an alternative preset for those that are opposed to the stereo width alteration. It involves a very mild crossfeed effect and upmixing to 4 channels. NO alteration to width :

bs2b - 360hz / 13.5db + channel mixer -  stereo-Width=1.00, upmix=4ch copy, rear volume=1.00


I did some brief listening yesterday and it retains most of the positive attributes and no regressions that I could find . Still I find that a mild width of 1.05 is better . If you can give this a check I'd appreciate it.
wavpack 4.8 -b4x4c

Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #55 –
I've tried it and I really like it. It sounds very natural to my ears. You've found a good solution which also meets my taste.
lame3995o -Q1.7
opus --bitrate 140

Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #56 –
Hello Halb27. I've worked on a new preset involving 6 channels upmix. The center channel gives a more upfront presentation including the feeling of bass which normally doesn't happen with headphones.

The parameters are:

bs2b - 360hz / 13.5db + channel mixer - stereo-Width=1.00, upmix=6ch copy, rear volume=1.00, center = 0.18


If you have time give it a test run and let me know .
wavpack 4.8 -b4x4c

Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #57 –
I've tried it, and yes, it sounds good to my ears with the intended purpose in mind.

But meanwhile I wouldn't say I'd prefer it over the original sound. May be it's because I've just returned from holidays where I listened to my music collection with a smartphone the original way, so I'm much used to that right now. When switching from the crossfeed listening to the original way of listening I feel that the crossfeeds makes the music loose 'vividness' (though the sound space is more natural). ATM I prefer the vividness of the original way of listening.
lame3995o -Q1.7
opus --bitrate 140

Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #58 –
> 'vividness'

crossfeed has a tendency to reduce high frequencies, so I guess you're describing that.

Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #59 –
Probably you're right. When I started experimenting with shadowking's way of crossfeeding I also used an equalizer in order to compensate for the reduced HF. But I never got a convincing result with that.
lame3995o -Q1.7
opus --bitrate 140

Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #61 –
New preset based on J Meier. DSP setup:

BS2B (JM) >> Convert stereo to 4 channels


The goal is to "set it and forget its there" . IMO there is a vast improvement over the standard JM crossfeed on most material. The sound in no longer in the head.

wavpack 4.8 -b4x4c

Re: Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #62 –
Anyone implemented this Linkwitz Crossfeed for Headphone use?

I tried to prepare it as a EqualizerAPO preset - but, with this implementation it's not easy to make direct comparisons against those common plug-in type implementations so, I can't be sure or say if it sounds OK or is implemented correctly. Any thoughts?
 

Re: Crossfeed - The next generation

Reply #64 –
Quote from: Juha on
Anyone implemented this Linkwitz Crossfeed for Headphone use?
That's what bs2b implements.


Quote from: Juha on
I tried to prepare it as a EqualizerAPO preset - but, with this implementation it's not easy to make direct comparisons against those common plug-in type implementations so, I can't be sure or say if it sounds OK or is implemented correctly. Any thoughts?Anyone implemented this Linkwitz Crossfeed for Headphone use?
Why not? Equalizer APO monitors the file for changes, there's even a UI where you can switch included files on or off.
Comparison shouldn't be hard at all.
"I hear it when I see it."
 
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