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Topic: Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound (Read 8269 times) previous topic - next topic
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Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Hi. I am a DJ and own a notebook with only 20Gb of harddisk space.

All the music (CDs,Vinyal etc.) i play live on gigs, is allready converted to flac on my desktop for backup reasons. But i have to make some "noise" on private partys where i want to use my notebook.

Now i am looking for an encoder, wich gives the best sound at a low bitrate encode.

I tried nero aac at 48kbs and it sounds good for me. Sometimes i can hear a difference but i am surprised how good it sounds at this low bitrate. But is the sound as good, if i turn up the volume to maximum?
Is aac performing better at 64kbit? or even 80kbits?

Or should i use vorbis?

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #1 –
More bitrate will always give better quality. For the bitrates around 48-64kbps, Nero HE-AAC should give the best quality.

The listening volume should not make any difference given that the codec has no idea what volume you play it back on and won't make any assumptions regarding that. Unless you play it so loud that you're causing hearing damage...

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #2 –
Quote from: -Nepomuk- on
I tried nero aac at 48kbs and it sounds good for me. Sometimes i can hear a difference but i am surprised how good it sounds at this low bitrate. But is the sound as good, if i turn up the volume to maximum? ;)
I'd use nero aac or latest aotuv vorbis at around 64 kbps, depending on how loud it will be played (i.e. how big the background party noise is). Both are great codecs at low bitrates.

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #3 –
Thank you. So 48-64 should be safe for my needs.

but there is a problem.

i encoded around 100 files from flac with nero aac at different bitrate settings. there are a few errors on some tracks. the soundquality on this tracks is good but there are sometimes a few milliseconds of blurring sound.

this appears mostly on 48kbs encodes. 40kbits is ok at this positions but sounds generally not as good as 48kbits. 64 sounds better, but not as good as 40 on this positions. is this a know issue in nero aac?

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #4 –
I don't think so. Please post exact encoder version used and a test clip. I'm sure someone at Nero will be interested in investigating.

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #5 –
OK. Here is the complete file (about 45 seconds).
It is a high quality sample for speaker setup.

the error appears at the 0:02 where the bass scratches.

in the original file, the scratch is more on the right channel.
the 48kbits encode is more on the left channel. 40kbits and 64kbits seems ok.

i think it is not a major problem. maybe an issue with parametric stereo?

there are more songs where similar errors. some with blurring, which isnt in the original file and seems in 48kbit mode more intense than in other modes. maybe i find a little time to post this songs

here is the file: http://www.file-upload.net/download-291337/aac.rar.html


the files are encoded with nero aac 1.0.7.0 from flac

and sorry for my bad english

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #6 –
Have you tested whether wma pro is better or worse at handling this?  (it's supposed to be very good at low bitrates also, though nero-he did slightly better on the last listening test.)



Quote from: -Nepomuk- on
OK. Here is the complete file (about 45 seconds).
It is a high quality sample for speaker setup.

the error appears at the 0:02 where the bass scratches.

in the original file, the scratch is more on the right channel.
the 48kbits encode is more on the left channel. 40kbits and 48kbits seems ok.

i think it is not a major problem. maybe an issue with parametric stereo?

there are more songs where similar errors. some with blurring, which isnt in the original file and seems in 48kbit mode more intense than in other modes. maybe i find a little time to post this songs

here is the file: http://www.file-upload.net/download-291337/aac.rar.html


the files are encoded with nero aac 1.0.7.0 from flac

and sorry for my bad english ;)

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #7 –
If you're at all serious about this, buy a bigger HDD. 64 kbps is not transparent, and I wouldn't think very highly of a DJ torturing me with that when I'm supposed to have a good time.

</realism>

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #8 –
Quote from: JensRex on
If you're at all serious about this, buy a bigger HDD. 64 kbps is not transparent, and I wouldn't think very highly of a DJ torturing me with that when I'm supposed to have a good time.

</realism>



Yes, you are right. But it is only for personal use like private parties. in my disco, i play only original cds and vinyls. and i am surprised with 48kbits, so maybe i use 80kbits?

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #9 –
While you are getting at 80kbit, I'd suggest to go to ogg vorbis and ~128kbit. It's the lowest I would reccomend, files are not that big, and quality is mostly transparent for most people.

Ivan.
TAPE LOADING ERROR

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #10 –
Try and test, I would suggest ABX testing
My choice would definently be latest aotuv vorbis @ 80kpbs since it is 99.9% transparent for my little ears ^^
I highly doubt anyone would notice on a party with background noise
 

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #11 –
-q 0.25 Nero HE-AAC (~64 kbit/s), -q1 aoTuV beta 5 (~80 kbit/s) or Q25 WMA 10 Professional (~85 kbit/s) should suit your needs very well. The decision which codec to use is up to you, in my opinion all of them are decent choices.

Besides, if you were going for Nero I'd recommend using foobar2000 for gapless playback. The other two formats should be played back gaplessly by a lot of software players, since they natively support it, unlike AAC.

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #12 –
Quote from: mr budzone on
Try and test, I would suggest ABX testing
My choice would definently be latest aotuv vorbis @ 80kpbs since it is 99.9% transparent for my little ears ^^
I highly doubt anyone would notice on a party with background noise

I second this.

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #13 –
Quote from: vinnie97 on
Quote from: mr budzone on

Try and test, I would suggest ABX testing
My choice would definently be latest aotuv vorbis @ 80kpbs since it is 99.9% transparent for my little ears ^^
I highly doubt anyone would notice on a party with background noise

I second this.

what version exactly?, link?
PANIC: CPU 1: Cache Error (unrecoverable - dcache data) Eframe = 0x90000000208cf3b8
NOTICE - cpu 0 didn't dump TLB, may be hung

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #14 –
Nero uses PS (Parametric Stereo) at q015.
I hear distortions at 0:02 at both q020 and q025 where only SBR is used.
This seems like a stereo issue in SBR to me.

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #15 –
Quote from: smok3 on
Quote from: vinnie97 on

Quote from: mr budzone on

Try and test, I would suggest ABX testing
My choice would definently be latest aotuv vorbis @ 80kpbs since it is 99.9% transparent for my little ears ^^
I highly doubt anyone would notice on a party with background noise

I second this.

what version exactly?, link?

http://homepage3.nifty.com/blacksword/

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #16 –
how about a version for plain foobar 0.9.x?
PANIC: CPU 1: Cache Error (unrecoverable - dcache data) Eframe = 0x90000000208cf3b8
NOTICE - cpu 0 didn't dump TLB, may be hung

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #17 –
spend $70 at newegg and get a 120GB HD...

THEN figure out the rest of what these guys are talking about


later

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #18 –
Quote from: xmixahlx on
spend $70 at newegg and get a 120GB HD...

THEN figure out the rest of what these guys are talking about


later


No offense, but he asked for a solution given his current setup. Why should he spend if it isn't necessary? Because he can?.
Why do people go to a supermarket that's just around the corner, driving a 300HP SUV?. Obviously because they can, most people don't care about efficiency.

Even 5GB of music @ 128kbps is much more than enough for a long party. I'd use vorbis or LAME 3.97.

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #19 –
Quote from: JensRex on
If you're at all serious about this, buy a bigger HDD. 64 kbps is not transparent, and I wouldn't think very highly of a DJ torturing me with that when I'm supposed to have a good time.

</realism>
Erm. Reality1 != Reality2. At my birthday party e.g., the music is just in the background and all people are doing blahblah. AAC around 60 kbps would be enough there.
We're not talking about a long term archive, but a temporary solution.

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Megaman on
Quote from: xmixahlx on

spend $70 at newegg and get a 120GB HD...

THEN figure out the rest of what these guys are talking about


later


No offense, but he asked for a solution given his current setup. Why should he spend if it isn't necessary? Because he can?.
Why do people go to a supermarket that's just around the corner, driving a 300HP SUV?. Obviously because they can, most people don't care about efficiency.

Even 5GB of music @ 128kbps is much more than enough for a long party. I'd use vorbis or LAME 3.97.

whatever...

if he's a DJ then spending $70 to get a bigger/better/reasonable hard drive is going to be the least of his expenses.

and i'd consider it a requirement, anyways.  a 20GB laptop hard drive = old.

"oh, i don't have that song because my hard drive is full."

"sorry this song sounds like crap, i tried to fit it all on my POS hard drive."


lol, give me a break dude.


"why do people make useless objections to obviously reasonable suggestions" is a better question  you should ask.


later

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Megaman on
Quote from: xmixahlx on

spend $70 at newegg and get a 120GB HD...

THEN figure out the rest of what these guys are talking about


later


No offense, but he asked for a solution given his current setup. Why should he spend if it isn't necessary? Because he can?.
Why do people go to a supermarket that's just around the corner, driving a 300HP SUV?. Obviously because they can, most people don't care about efficiency.

Even 5GB of music @ 128kbps is much more than enough for a long party. I'd use vorbis or LAME 3.97.



How long's the party?
9 Days of Music @ AVG Bitrate 170 kbps = 15GB
So 3 Days @ 170 = 5GB
So a full 24 hour party = 1.67GB

That's a long party with good quality audio.
Why not limit requests or have backup collections on DVD (3 Days worth again @ 170 kbps) or a bunch of CDs?

I agree with Megaman - 128 woud be fine, surely.

Rachel.
PC = TAK + LossyWAV  ::  Portable = Opus (130)

Need encoder for low bitrate but good sound

Reply #22 –
Vorbis would be my choice, I was very impressed with results of aotuv at 80 kbps.
:Foobar 2000:
:MPC --standard:
:iRiver H320 Rockboxed: