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Ripping WAV (lossless) with WMP11 - near EAC quality?

Reply #25
I am skeptical because I have found no evidence comparing EAC ripping with WMP or any other ripping, despite the ease with which this could be done.

...and I'm guessing you're probably not interested in finding any evidence to support your skepticism either.

Since you said it's easy, how you think one should go about conducting a test to show that WMP is capable of ripping with the same degree of accuracy as EAC?

What gives you the impression I am not interested in finding any evidence to support my skepticism? That was a very emotive/defensive thing to say. That is the kind of thing I expect from forums though: emotions over evidence.

It is easy to determine if EAC is necessary because you can rip a standard collection of 200 cds with WMP, EAC, and some other program and compare how many times they are consistent. Or maybe use AccurateRip or something like that to see how many times WMP gets it wrong, then see if EAC can make it right or not with the same CD.

My experience has taught me that the more paranoid you are, the more complexity you add to the situation, the more likely that things will go wrong. It has also taught me that internet forums are nothing more than the vocal minority, and the programs with small marketshare will always be given as recommendations, while everything from Microsoft will be given harsh criticism, with no evidence to support any of the arguments, and often with made-up garbage, such as how kmixer supposedly eats babies.

Ripping WAV (lossless) with WMP11 - near EAC quality?

Reply #26
I am skeptical because I have found no evidence comparing EAC ripping with WMP or any other ripping, despite the ease with which this could be done.

...and I'm guessing you're probably not interested in finding any evidence to support your skepticism either.

Since you said it's easy, how you think one should go about conducting a test to show that WMP is capable of ripping with the same degree of accuracy as EAC?


When someone says they are skeptical, they are asking to be shown the supporting evidence. So, yes, he and I are all ears to any evidence.

Ripping WAV (lossless) with WMP11 - near EAC quality?

Reply #27
What gives you the impression I am not interested in finding any evidence to support my skepticism? That was a very emotive/defensive thing to say.
It was a rhetorical question.  Of course you're interested in finding evidence to justify your belief.  Since you're working from your belief, is not having any evidence any less compelling than the situation where none existed?  Based on your attitude, it seems that your answer would be no.

It is easy to determine if EAC is necessary because you can rip a standard collection of 200 cds with WMP, EAC, and some other program and compare how many times they are consistent. Or maybe use AccurateRip or something like that to see how many times WMP gets it wrong, then see if EAC can make it right or not with the same CD.
So what's stopping you from doing this?

Or do you prefer taking an even easier route and do nothing but say you're skeptical?

Do you honestly think that a more complicated ripping algorithm than simple burst ripping like the one that's present in EAC is just there for show?  Do you honestly think that it provides no benefit?
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Ripping WAV (lossless) with WMP11 - near EAC quality?

Reply #28
Put it this way, if WMP had accuraterip abilities there would be many unhappy people getting rips with reported errors, where as now WMP reports nothing, so ignorance is bliss.

 

Ripping WAV (lossless) with WMP11 - near EAC quality?

Reply #29
Well, I decided to run a test in order to give our skeptics some evidence.

It was a little problematic since WMP is incapable of correctly ripping discs that start with an extended pregap not to mention that regardless of the existence of an extended pregap, they omit the last frame of data from the last track.  I noticed this while trying to get the output from EAC synchronized with the output from WMP in order to compare the rips by checksum.  So much for easy.

The disc that I used has an extended pregap of 32 frames.  As a consequence, every track ripped from this disc using WMP began 32 frames early and the final track was cut short by 33 frames.  You guys can just forget about creating bitwise identical copies using WMP.   

The purpose of this test wasn't to uncover WMP's inability rip tracks at the correct location in certain circumstances or its inability to preserve the proper length of the last track in all circumstances.  Instead it was to show that EAC can rip discs correctly that WMP can't by providing evidence, any evidence.

First, I ripped a single-file image of the disc and created the appropriate cue sheet using EAC.  My drive was configured without a read offset correction.  I then ripped the same disc using WMP as individual tracks.  From there I combined all the individual tracks ripped using WMP into a single wave file using foobar2000.  I then appended the last 33 frames of the EAC image to the end of the newly-created WMP image in order to compensate for WMP's shortcoming that I mentioned earlier.  Finally, using the CUE sheet that EAC created, I mounted each image to a virtual drive that is offset corrected in order to let AccurateRip verify the results.

As it turns out, all the tracks tested from the EAC image were accurate.  All but one of the tracks tested from the WMP image were accurate.  I will include data for two tracks from each image to illustrate where they are the same and where they are different.

From the EAC image:
Code: [Select]
EAC extraction logfile from 31. March 2007, 12:41 for CD
Dave Matthews Band / Under the Table and Dreaming

Used drive  : AXV    CD/DVD-ROM  Adapter: 4  ID: 0
Read mode  : Burst
Read offset correction : 30

Track 10
    Filename F:\Dave Matthews Band\Under the Table and Dreaming\10 - Warehouse.wav

    Peak level 99.8 %
    Test CRC 056874C0
    Copy OK

Track 11
    Filename F:\Dave Matthews Band\Under the Table and Dreaming\11 - Pay for What You Get.wav

    Peak level 99.8 %
    Test CRC 4AB5F428
    Copy OK

------------------------------------------------------------

Track Ripping Status [Disc ID: 0072d79b-5e0ed322]

 10 Accurately Ripped    (confidence 8)    [6eba055a]
 11 Accurately Ripped    (confidence 8)    [04f4eeb9]

_______________________

All Tracks Accurately Ripped.

From the WMP image:
Code: [Select]
EAC extraction logfile from 31. March 2007, 12:41 for CD
Dave Matthews Band / Under the Table and Dreaming

Used drive  : AXV    CD/DVD-ROM  Adapter: 4  ID: 0
Read mode  : Burst
Read offset correction : 30

Track 10
    Filename F:\Dave Matthews Band\Under the Table and Dreaming\10 - Warehouse.wav

    Peak level 99.8 %
    Test CRC 056874C0
    Copy OK

Track 11
    Filename F:\Dave Matthews Band\Under the Table and Dreaming\11 - Pay for What You Get.wav

    Peak level 99.8 %
    Test CRC 1D2022EC
    Copy OK

------------------------------------------------------------

Track Ripping Status [Disc ID: 0072d79b-5e0ed322]

 10 Accurately Ripped    (confidence 8)    [6eba055a]
 11 ** Rip not accurate **  (confidence 8)    [04f4eeb9] [df2d3834]

_______________________

Track(s) Accurately Ripped: 1
**** Track(s) Not Ripped Accurately: 1 ****
Track(s) Not in Database: 0

So there you have it, evidence of ripping differences between EAC and WMP.  The drive I used, BTW, is a PX-716A by Plextor.  I think it qualifies as "a good cd writer." 
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Ripping WAV (lossless) with WMP11 - near EAC quality?

Reply #30
Well, I decided to run a test in order to give our skeptics some evidence.


Thank you for that  I also got some advice from "high above" that suggested using EAC also. I might go the EAC/FLAC/Foobar route. Or just WAV instead of bothering with FLAC. Is there any reason I need to use FLAC apart from saving space and being able to add more tags?

Ripping WAV (lossless) with WMP11 - near EAC quality?

Reply #31
Thank you for that  I also got some advice from "high above" that suggested using EAC also. I might go the EAC/FLAC/Foobar route. Or just WAV instead of bothering with FLAC. Is there any reason I need to use FLAC apart from saving space and being able to add more tags?

FLAC files also have error-detection mechanisms.

Ripping WAV (lossless) with WMP11 - near EAC quality?

Reply #32
Because R12 of Music Converter, stops CD Writer from working (as it relies on R11.5). CD Writer is being updated ASAP to clear this issue.



Hi I am also a newbie and have been goin round the mulberry bush trying to find a CD ripper which will also convert to WAV lossless.

Got winamp to begin with, used the FLAC decoder then found out I needed to set gain replay for tracks, did  this and the tracks still played at different volumes. Not sure if I need to dump all and start rip again with the gain set in first place?

However, then I heard that there is better software than winamp so I downloaded WMP11 and realized after using, it does not support tags for WAV lossless.

More searching led me to reading this thead and here to the dppowerampR12 Version. I need quality above everthing as I will be using PA to play backing tracks for band via laptop.  With quality I also require a software that will enable me to adjust the volume (replay gain) for each track, rather than rely on any auto adjust. Is this something the DPPowerampR12 can enable me to do? 

Much appreciate any help from members JO

Ripping WAV (lossless) with WMP11 - near EAC quality?

Reply #33
R12 has been superceeded by R13 now, you can give it a try for 21 days.


 
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