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Topic: TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec (Read 252254 times) previous topic - next topic
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TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #100 –
Quote from: pest on
I've just tested TAK against the best codecs.
This is just a small sample which benefits clearly from high-orders,

While it's true, that TAK can not achieve the same compression as the strongest symmetrical codecs, drawing conclusions from small sample sets is always very dangerous! Even if this isn't a bad sample for TAK.
Quote from: pest on
but perhaps in the future you like to include a strong adaptive codec,
perhaps for archiving purposes only.

If we already can use such strong codecs like OptimFrog, why should i add another one?

I wanted to create a codec with good compression and very high speed. I doubt, that i could make symmetrical compression considerably faster.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #101 –
Quote from: TBeck on
If we already can use such strong codecs like OptimFrog, why should i add another one?

I wanted to create a codec with good compression and very high speed. I doubt, that i could make symmetrical compression considerably faster.


I'm pretty sure this is the appropriate motivation considering TAK's development for the codec to become successful in the future. Judging by the 2007 ripping/encoding general poll the majority of users is more interested in compression/decompression speed than in file sizes, otherwise FLAC and WavPack wouldn't be as successful as they actually are. Of course one major reason for using these two lossless codecs is also their software compatibility, with FLAC even enjoying native support by some hardware devices, WavPack works on a few ones which have the Rockbox firmware installed. TAK will need decent support by the developers of today's audio and CD burning applications in order to stand a chance against these two old bulls.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #102 –
Quote from: TBeck on
While it's true, that TAK can not achieve the same compression as the strongest symmetrical codecs, drawing conclusions from small sample sets is always very dangerous!


I did not draw any conclusions. It was just a small sample where the gap between
different codecs is larger than usual. Fast is relative. Why not use adaptive techniques
with an asymmetric codec? Sac for example has 10times faster decompression and
i liked the idea to have both worlds as in MP4ALS. Just a thought.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #103 –
Quote from: pest on
Quote from: TBeck on

While it's true, that TAK can not achieve the same compression as the strongest symmetrical codecs, drawing conclusions from small sample sets is always very dangerous!

I did not draw any conclusions. It was just a small sample where the gap between
different codecs is larger than usual. Fast is relative. Why not use adaptive techniques

I hope you don't mind. I always have the feeling, it can not be said often enough.

Quote from: pest on
different codecs is larger than usual. Fast is relative. Why not use adaptive techniques
with an asymmetric codec? Sac for example has 10times faster decompression and
i liked the idea to have both worlds as in MP4ALS. Just a thought.

TAK usese adaption, but it is beeing performed in bigger intervals. If you want to reduce the interval, you have to go for symmetric approaches.

Quote from: pest on
... Fast is relative....

Yes. If TAK wasn't FASTER than other codecs, it would be quite useless. TAK's niche would vanish, if i made it  slower.

Some other important topics:

1) The adaption methods used in symmetric codecs seem to be more likely to be covered by patents.

2) If i tried to build a symmetric codec, i wanted it to be better than the existing ones (otherwise it's no fun). While i doubt, that i would achieve this, the searching for new ideas and their evaluation would take much time. I can not spend another thousands of hours on building a new codec while simultaneously improving TAK's usability.

It's good to know my own limits...

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #104 –
Quote from: TBeck on
1) The adaption methods used in symmetric codecs seem to be more likely to be covered by patents.


If I would tell how they work you would be surprised how easy it is.
You just need some understanding of linear algebra.

Quote
2) If i tried to build a symmetric codec, i wanted it to be better than the existing ones (otherwise it's no fun).


This is a hard one, and I think you're on the right way with TAK to gain popularity.
Look at MP4ALS, I made something similiar and improved the whole thing...and surprise too slow to be usable...
But as i mentioned before, if you change your mind, and need some advice i could be the one to help you

Good luck

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #105 –
Quote from: pest on
Quote from: TBeck on

1) The adaption methods used in symmetric codecs seem to be more likely to be covered by patents.

If I would tell how they work you would be surprised how easy it is.
You just need some understanding of linear algebra.

It's not, that i wouldn't know a bit about the way they are working. But when i started with asymmetric compression i immediately had some nice ideas for improvements. That's not the case for symmetric compression. Possibly because the authors of the existing symmetric compressors already have done such a good work...

Quote from: pest on
Quote from: TBeck on

2) If i tried to build a symmetric codec, i wanted it to be better than the existing ones (otherwise it's no fun).

But as i mentioned before, if you change your mind, and need some advice i could be the one to help you

Thank you for your offer, but i really can't see this happen. If TAK should gain some significant popularity, there will be enough for me to do... And if i should begin another large-scale project, it will probably be something different...

Why don't you develop your own codec?

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #106 –
Quote from: TBeck on
Why don't you develop your own codec?


Because no one even uses OptimFROG or the higher MAC modes.
Best adaption and real-time playback contradict each other, and i'm not a fan of compromises.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #107 –
does it work in eac? foobar? that's all that I really care about...

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #108 –
Off-topic discussion moved to the Recycle Bin.  Please stay on-topic, and re-read TOS#5 if need be.

Muchos gracias.
I'm on a horse.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #109 –
Quote from: adlai on
does it work in eac?
Ripping to TAK in EAC shouldn't be a problem with the TAK commandline encoder.

Quote from: adlai on
foobar?
Converting (and ripping) to TAK works using the commandline encoder. Tagging works as well with my TAK decoder stub. Playback will have to wait until Thomas has finished the TAK SDK.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #110 –
Quote from: adlai on
does it work in eac? foobar? that's all that I really care about...

Quote from: foosion on
Quote from: adlai on
foobar?
Converting (and ripping) to TAK works using the commandline encoder. Tagging works as well with my TAK decoder stub. Playback will have to wait until Thomas has finished the TAK SDK.

Just some minutes ago i have run the first test of  my decoding library.  Seems to work well!

But there is some more work left: Test the abstract io layer, write header files and documentation and ask other developers for feedback and testing.

The SDK-decoder also contains some improvements over the decoder of TAK Final:

- It can decode files were head and tail have been cut off. Theoretically any file part containing at least 2 seconds of audio should now be decodable.
- Most of the time you will no longer have to disable the "Restore wave file meta data"-option to decode a damaged file.
- Playback of even heavily damaged files.

When the SDK has been tested, the new decoder will also be included in the TAK applications.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #111 –
Seems like it's not very long left now....can't wait 
I just like listening to music

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #112 –
I've done a little comparrison between Tak 1.0 normal preset and Flac 1.1.2 -6

Here is a list of the full albums i encoded (294 of them  )
Code: [Select]
311 - 311
A - Hi-Fi Serious
A Perfect Circle - Mer De Noms
AC-DC - Back In Black
AFI - Sing The Sorrow
Alice In Chains - Facelift
Anthrax - Persistence Of Time
Anthrax - Sound Of White Noise
Anthrax - We've Come For You All
Bad Religion - Stranger Than Fiction
Bad Religion - Tested
Bad Religion - The Gray Race
Beck - Odelay
Bee Gees - The Very Best Of The
Ben Folds - Ben Folds Live
Ben Folds - Rockin' The Suburbs
Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner
Ben Folds Five - Whatever And Ever Amen
Bic Runga - Beautiful Collision
Bic Runga - Birds
Billy Joel - Greatest Hits Disc 1
Billy Joel - Greatest Hits Disc 2
Billy Talent - II
Blink-182 - Dude Ranch
Blink-182 - Take Off Your Pants And Jacket
Bob Mould - Bob Mould
Bodyjar - How It Works
Bodyjar - No Touch Red
Breaking Benjamin - We Are Not Alone
Bush - Sixteen Stone
Cake - Comfort Eagle
Cake - Fashion Nugget
Cake - Motorcade Of Generosity
Cake - Prolonging The Magic
Cat Stevens - The Very Best Of Cat Stevens
Chicago - Heart Of Chicago 1967 - 1997
Coldplay - Parachutes
Counting Crows - August And Everything After
Crowded House - Recurring Dream The Very Best Of
Dave Dobbyn - Lament For The Numb
Dave Dobbyn - Loyal
Dave Dobbyn - The Islander
Dave Dobbyn - Twist
Def Leppard - Hysteria
Elliott Smith - XO
Elton John - Greatest Hits 1970 - 2002 Disc 1
Elton John - Greatest Hits 1970 - 2002 Disc 2
Eminem - The Eminem Show
Eric Clapton - One More Car, One More Rider - Disc 1
Eric Clapton - One More Car, One More Rider - Disc 2
Eric Clapton - Unplugged
Evanescence - Fallen
Extreme - Pornograffitti
Faith No More - Album Of The Year
Faith No More - Angel Dust
Faith No More - Free Concert In The Park
Faith No More - King For A Day, Fool For A Lifetime
Faith No More - Live At The Brixton Academy
Faith No More - The Real Thing
Fat Freddys Drop - Based On A True Story
Fatboy Slim - You've Come A Long Way, Baby
Fear Factory - Digimortal
Fear Factory - Obsolete
Fear Factory - Remanufacture
Finger Eleven - Finger Eleven
Finley Quaye - Maverick A Strike
Finley Quaye - Much More Than Much Love
Foo Fighters - Foo Fighters
Foo Fighters - The Colour And The Shape
Foo Fighters - There Is Nothing Left To Lose
Frank Zappa - Ship Arriving Too Late To Save A Drowning Witch
Fun Lovin' Criminals - 100 Percent Colombian
Fun Lovin' Criminals - Come Find Yourself
Fun Lovin' Criminals - Loco
Fun Lovin' Criminals - Mimosa
Funeral For A Friend - Casually Dressed & Deep In Conversation
Funeral For A Friend - Seven Ways To Scream Your Name
Gary Moore - Still Got The Blues
George Harrison - The Best Of George Harrison
Green Day - American Idiot
Green Day - Dookie
Green Day - Insomniac
Green Day - Nimrod
Green Day - Shenanigans
Green Day - Warning
Grinspoon - Thrills, Kills + Sunday Pills
Groove Armada - Lovebox
Head Like A Hole - Double Your Strength Improve Your Health And Lengthen Your Life
Hoobastank - The Reason
Hootie & The Blowfish - Cracked Rear View
Husker Du - The Living End
Incubus - Make Yourself
Incubus - Morning View
Iron Maiden - A Real Live One
Iron Maiden - Brave New World
Iron Maiden - Fear Of The Dark
Iron Maiden - Piece Of Mind
Iron Maiden - Rock In Rio Disc 1
Iron Maiden - Rock In Rio Disc 2
Iron Maiden - Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son
Jack Johnson - In Between Dreams
Jeff Wayne - The War Of The Worlds Disc 1
Jeff Wayne - The War Of The Worlds Disc 2
Jimmy Eat World - Jimmy Eat World
Joe Satriani - The Extremist
John Farnham - Anthology 1
John Lennon - Imagine
John Mayer - Heavier Things
John Mayer - Room For Squares
Lagwagon - Blaze
Lagwagon - Double Plaidinum
Lagwagon - Duh
Lagwagon - Hoss
Lagwagon - Let's Talk About Feelings
Lagwagon - Let's Talk About Leftovers
Lagwagon - Trashed
Less Than Jake - Hello Rockview
Less Than Jake - Losing Streak
Less Than Jake - Pezcore
Linkin Park - Hybrid Theory
Linkin Park - Meteora
Live - Mental Jewelry
Live - The Distance To Here
Living Colour - Time's Up
Living Colour - Vivid
Long Beach Dub Allstars - Right Back
Lostprophets - Liberation Transmission
Lostprophets - Start Something
Me First And The Gimme Gimmes - Have A Ball
Michael Jackson - Off The Wall
Michael Jackson - Thriller
Millencolin - For Monkeys
Millencolin - Home From Home
Millencolin - Life On A Plate
Millencolin - Pennybridge Pioneers
Millencolin - The Melancholy Collection
Misfits - American Psycho
Misfits - Famous Monsters
Moby - Play
Mr. Bungle - Mr. Bungle
My Chemical Romance - The Black Parade
New Found Glory - Catalyst
Nirvana - Unplugged In New York
No Fun At All - No Straight Angles
No Fun At All - Out Of Bounds
No Fun At All - State Of Flow
No Fun At All - The Big Knockover
No Fun At All - Throw It In
No Use For A Name - Hard Rock Bottom
No Use For A Name - Leche Con Carne
No Use For A Name - Making Friends
Nofx - 45 Or 46 Songs That Weren't Good Enough To Go On Our Other Records Disc 1
Nofx - 45 Or 46 Songs That Weren't Good Enough To Go On Our Other Records Disc 2 Catching Zzz's
Nofx - Heavy Petting Zoo
Nofx - I Heard They Suck Live
Nofx - Liberal Animation
Nofx - Pump Up The Valuum
Nofx - Punk In Drublic
Nofx - Ribbed
Nofx - S&M Airlines
Nofx - So Long And Thanks For All The Shoes
Nofx - The Decline
Nofx - The Longest Line
Nofx - The War On Errorism
Nofx - White Trash, Two Heebs, And A Bean
One Dollar Short - Eight Days Away
Ozzy Osbourne - Bark At The Moon
Ozzy Osbourne - Blizzard Of Ozz
Ozzy Osbourne - No More Tears
Ozzy Osbourne - Ozzmosis
Ozzy Osbourne - The Ozzman Cometh Disc 1
Ozzy Osbourne - The Ozzman Cometh Disc 2
Pacifier - Pacifier
Pacifier - Weapons Of Mass Destruction
Papa Roach - Getting Away With Murder
Pearl Jam - Pearl Jam
Pennywise - A Word From The Wise
Pennywise - About Time
Pennywise - From The Ashes
Pennywise - Full Circle
Pennywise - Land Of The Free
Pennywise - Straight Ahead
Pennywise - Unknown Road
Phil Collins - ...But Seriously
Phil Collins - ...Hits
Pink Floyd - Live 8
Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon
Pink Floyd - The Wall Disc 1
Pink Floyd - The Wall Disc 2
Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
Queen - Greatest Hits
Queens Of The Stone Age - Queens Of The Stone Age
Rage Against The Machine - Evil Empire
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Blood Sugar Sex Magik
Reel Big Fish - Cheer Up
Reel Big Fish - Why Do They Rock So Hard
Regurgitator - Unit
Salmonella Dub - Inside The Dub Plates
Salmonella Dub - Killervision
Shihad - Killjoy
Shihad - Shihad
Shihad - The General Electric
Silverchair - Diorama
Silverchair - Freak Show
Silverchair - Frogstomp
Simon & Garfunkel - The Definitive Collection
Skunk Anansie - Paranoid & Sunburnt
Skunk Anansie - Post Orgasmic Chill
Skunk Anansie - Stoosh
Smashing Pumpkins - Adore
Smashing Pumpkins - Machina The Machines Of God
Smashing Pumpkins - Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness - Dawn To Dusk Disc 1
Smashing Pumpkins - Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness - Twilight To Starlight Disc 2
Smashing Pumpkins - Pisces Iscariot
Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream
Soundgarden - Superunknown
Spiderbait - Grand Slam
Spiderbait - Ivy And The Big Apples
Staind - 14 Shades Of Grey
Stellar - Magic Line
Stevie Wonder - Talking Book
Stevie Wonder - The Definitive Collection Disc 1
Stevie Wonder - The Definitive Collection Disc 2
Stone Temple Pilots - Core
Stone Temple Pilots - Purple
Story Of The Year - In The Wake Of Determination
Strung Out - An American Paradox
Strung Out - Another Day In Paradise
Strung Out - Exile In Oblivion
Strung Out - Live In A Dive
Strung Out - Suburban Teenage Wasteland Blues
Strung Out - The Element Of Sonic Defiance
Strung Out - Twisted By Design
Sublime - Sublime
Sugar - Beaster
Sugar - Copper Blue
Sugar - File Under Easy Listening
Sugar Ray - Floored
Sum 41 - All Killer No Filler
Sum 41 - Chuck
Sum 41 - Does This Look Infected
Supergrass - Supergrass
Supergroove - Backspacer
Supergroove - Traction
Switchfoot - Nothing Is Sound
System Of A Down - Toxicity
The Beatles - Help
The Beatles - Let It Be
The Beatles - Magical Mystery Tour
The Beatles - One
The Beatles - Revolver
The Beatles - Yellow Submarine
The Darkness - Permission To Land
The Doobie Brothers - Best Of The Doobies
The Killers - Hot Fuss
The Living End - Modern Artillery
The Living End - Roll On
The Living End - The Living End
The Mighty Mighty Bosstones - Lets Face It
The Offspring - Americana
The Offspring - Ignition
The Offspring - Ixnay On The Hombre
The Offspring - Smash
The Police - Greatest Hits
The Reverend Horton Heat - It's Martini Time
The Rolling Stones - Forty Licks Disc 1
The Rolling Stones - Forty Licks Disc 2
The Strokes - Is This It
The Vandals - Hitler Bad, Vandals Good
The Vandals - Look What I Almost Stepped In
The Vandals - Oi! To The World
The Verve - This Is Music (The Singles 92-98)
The Verve - Urban Hymns
Tool - Aenima
Travis - The Invisible Band
U2 - Rattle And Hum
U2 - The Joshua Tree
Unwritten Law - Elva
Unwritten Law - Unwritten Law
Various Artists - Fat Music Vol. IV - Life In The Fat Lane
Various Artists - Floyd ...And Out Come The Teeth
Various Artists - Forrest Gump The Soundtrack Disc 1
Various Artists - Forrest Gump The Soundtrack Disc 2
Various Artists - Good Morning, Vietnam
Various Artists - Natural Born Killers Soundtrack
Various Artists - Physical Fatness Fat Music Vol. III
Various Artists - Punk O Rama Vol. 2.1
Vicious Hary Mary - Orchestra Phantasma
Weezer - Maladroit
Weezer - Pinkerton
Weezer - The Blue Album
Weezer - The Green Album
Yellowcard - Lights and Sounds
Yellowcard - Ocean Avenue

Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #113 –
Hehehe,

You're killin' us Thomas . I can't wait for you to release the decoder. I'm excited about TAK!

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #114 –
In case people aren't tired of them yet, I also made a comparison (using more settings but only a handful of albums).

Code: [Select]
Encoder			size	enc time	dec time
TAK Extra Max		55,58%	13,29%		1,23%
TAK Extra		55,67%	 5,11%		1,23%
TAK High Max		55,75%	 6,70%		1,14%
TAK High		55,87%	 3,28%		1,14%
TAK Normal Max		56,06%	 4,10%		0,99%
TAK Normal		56,16%	 2,05%		1,00%
TAK Fast Max		56,23%	 3,42%		0,98%
TAK Fast		56,54%	 1,33%		0,97%
TAK Turbo Max		57,51%	 2,66%		0,93%
TAK Turbo		57,84%	 0,99%		0,94%
Wavpack hhx3		57,03%	20,43%		1,96%
Wavpack hh		57,39%	 3,16%		1,99%
Wavpack hx3		57,35%	13,69%		1,52%
Wavpack h		57,74%	 2,37%		1,62%
Wavpack x3		58,04%	 8,14%		1,13%
Wavpack			59,12%	 1,56%		1,13%
Wavpack fx3		59,41%	 4,49%		0,88%
Wavpack f		60,60%	 1,16%		0,90%
OptimFrog Extra		55,39%	12,62%		9,24%
OptimFrog High		55,52%	 8,53%		6,26%
OptimFrog Normal	55,74%	 5,88%		4,30%
OptimFrog Fast		56,31%	 4,26%		3,09%
Monkey Extra High	55,39%	 6,36%		6,53%
Monkey High		56,11%	 3,18%		3,58%
Monkey Normal		56,52%	 2,67%		3,06%
Monkey Fast		57,57%	 1,80%		2,31%
FLAC 8			59,19%	 9,74%		1,02%
FLAC 6			59,40%	 2,26%		0,99%
FLAC 5			59,48%	 2,06%		1,00%
FLAC 4			59,68%	 1,65%		1,02%
FLAC 3			61,77%	 1,22%		0,99%
FLAC 2			61,70%	 1,20%		1,02%
FLAC 1			62,09%	 0,93%		1,04%
FLAC 0			63,75%	 0,91%		1,02%

enc/dec time: process time in percent of the album's length, measured by timer.exe, Pentium 4 2.6GHz

Albums used:
Björk - Homogenic
Frank Black - Teenager of the Year
Kraftwerk - Die Mensch-Maschine
Queens of the Stone Age - Songs for the Deaf
Roni Size/Reprazent - New Forms (CD2)
Steely Dan - Gaucho
Stereolab - Margerine Eclipse
Erik Satie - Piano Works
Nothing surprising compared to others' results I think, but I also made a pretty graph:

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #115 –
Quote from: A_Man_Eating_Duck on
I've done a little comparrison between Tak 1.0 normal preset and Flac 1.1.2 -6

Wow.  Based on the current cost of disk storage you just saved almost US$ 1.00!

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #116 –
Quote from: dem on
Wow.  Based on the current cost of disk storage you just saved almost US$ 1.00!

Only saved a dollar?  Well done, dem.  You just blew the lid off the whole audio compression fraud.  What a sham.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #117 –
Quote from: A_Man_Eating_Duck on
I've done a little comparrison between Tak 1.0 normal preset and Flac 1.1.2 -6

[a href="http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=1930408" target="_blank"]

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #118 –
ok ok, i ballsed up the first graph, this is a better non political statistics version

Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #119 –
MO BETTAH!

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #120 –
Quote from: pest on
I've just tested TAK against the best codecs.
This is just a small sample which benefits clearly from high-orders,
but perhaps in the future you like to include a strong adaptive codec,
perhaps for archiving purposes only.

original     (nothingelse.wav)     11.250.652   EncTime
Sac           --best            3.907.383    41:00   34.73%


Never heard of "Sac". Is this a lossless codec or just some options of another codec?

TIA

Steve56

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #121 –
Quote from: Steve56 on
Never heard of "Sac". Is this a lossless codec or just some options of another codec?


It's a lossless codec written by myself.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #122 –
Quote from: A_Man_Eating_Duck on
I've done a little comparrison between Tak 1.0 normal preset and Flac 1.1.2 -6

Here is a list of the full albums i encoded (294 of them  )

Many thanks for your little comparison! Nice to see, that TAK survives such a stress...

Quote from: gaekwad2 on
In case people aren't tired of them yet, I also made a comparison (using more settings but only a handful of albums).

I myself can't get enough... Thank you!

Quote from: gaekwad2 on
Nothing surprising compared to others' results I think, but I also made a pretty graph:
...

It's a really useful presentation! It makes comparisons of different aspects (speed/compression) of the codecs very easy.

Quote from: dem on
Quote from: A_Man_Eating_Duck on

I've done a little comparrison between Tak 1.0 normal preset and Flac 1.1.2 -6
...

Wow.  Based on the current cost of disk storage you just saved almost US$ 1.00!

Well, this might be the truth about any improvements of lossless audio compression in the last years. Therefore i assume,

- that we still could be happy with Shorten's compression efficiency and
- that FLAC does not need any mode stronger than maybe -3 and
- that the development of Optimfrog and LA was a total waste of time...

It's probably a matter of personal taste.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #123 –
Quote
Quote
Wow. Based on the current cost of disk storage you just saved almost US$ 1.00!


Well, this might be the truth about any improvements of lossless audio compression in the last years. Therefore i assume,

- that we still could be happy with Shorten's compression efficiency and
- that FLAC does not need any mode stronger than maybe -3 and
- that the development of Optimfrog and LA was a total waste of time...

It's probably a matter of personal taste.


There is a difference between "current gain" and "longterm gain".

To make it quick and brutal: *currently*, we could still be happy with mp3 and shorten (exception: narrowband). All "modern" codecs do not offer a *significant* advantage regarding speed/compression.

However, you dont arrive at a "significant advantage" just overnight. Sure, in some rare cases a technological revolution happens overnight, but thats not how it works most of the time. Thus, the work you put into your codec, as well as all other "modern" audio codecs, is a "longterm-investment" which will someday lead to a result which indeed offers a significant advantage over mp3/shorten. But for now, the masses dont benefit much from it.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

TAK 1.0 - Final release of the new lossless codec

Reply #124 –
I think you only need to see the excitement that TAK has generated, or even the improvements in FLAC 1.1.3 over 1.1.2, to know that users are very keen to squeeze just a few more MB out of a file (if there is no speed penalty).

It may not be logical, but it is tangible.

Why not have those extra few MB, or extra few minutes, if it doesn't cost me anything?  Why use something inferior?

Thomas and I had a similar discussion regarding speed.  There is a point where the hard drive becomes a major factor in encoding and decoding speed, but users just want to know that their encoder is the theoretical best that it can be, irrespective of how those speeds translate when applied to a 5400rpm hard drive.
I'm on a horse.