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Topic: iPod manager (Read 1750982 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: iPod manager

Reply #4150
It does include comments (though on older iPod models it will only be the first ~500 characters). One reason is that you should be able to create smart playlists based on values of that field. Another possible reason is that iTunesDB is used by iTunes when viewing the iPod's content.

However, you can define a remapping for the field in iPod manager preferences, so you shouldn't need to retag your files to stop it being written to the iPod's database.
Thanks!
The thing I wondered specifically about the iPod's firmware caring for the Comment field (should have remembered to mention this first time around...) is if it's used while the iPod itself is in use, and not just when connected to a computer and managed? That is, if t counts in the data limitations that make up the stock firmwares' + hardware's maximum supported track amounts? I mean that one for instance how a 5.5 gen (64MB logic board version) has a track count limit of approximately 50k tracks, which, if I'm not mistaken, is how many tracks the stock firmware can handle at once, and is directly tied to the amount of RAM present on the device and the size of the library database.

Btw, there seems to be conflicting information floating around regarding this. As you must be quite an expert on their workings, can you confirm whether this limit is on how many tracks a given iPod can (reliably) hold in general, or just on how many tracks it can queue up when shuffling?

Field remapping uses Foobar's title formatting code, I'd presume?

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4151
The thing I wondered specifically about the iPod's firmware caring for the Comment field (should have remembered to mention this first time around...) is if it's used while the iPod itself is in use, and not just when connected to a computer and managed?
If a smart playlist uses the comment field, and it has live updating turned on, and the iPod model supports live updating (for rules based on things like last played), then I assume the iPod itself would be looking at the field. That should be relatively easy to test.

That is, if t counts in the data limitations that make up the stock firmwares' + hardware's maximum supported track amounts? I mean that one for instance how a 5.5 gen (64MB logic board version) has a track count limit of approximately 50k tracks, which, if I'm not mistaken, is how many tracks the stock firmware can handle at once, and is directly tied to the amount of RAM present on the device and the size of the library database.
I don't think it's an unlikely scenario that the field is being held in memory on a 5.5G and similar models, especially if the field works with live updating. But you'd need to e.g. decompile the firmware, dump the iPod's memory or do some other manual testing to be sure.

Btw, there seems to be conflicting information floating around regarding this. As you must be quite an expert on their workings, can you confirm whether this limit is on how many tracks a given iPod can (reliably) hold in general, or just on how many tracks it can queue up when shuffling?
I don't have any specific knowledge on such a limit, unfortunately. But if RAM is the limiting factor, then I'd expect the limit to be a function of both the number of songs and the total size of the variable-length metadata fields. So the limit may well be directly proportional to the file size of iTunesDB.

Field remapping uses Foobar's title formatting code, I'd presume?
Yes, it does. You might be able to put something like $null() in it to stop it being populated at all.
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Re: iPod manager

Reply #4152
Thanks! And sorry for the late reply, I sort of kinda almost forgot I had a question posted in the thread.  :P

Hope you don't mind being bothered with a couple of more things.
Since last time posting here, I've come across a couple of odd occurrances with foo_dop.


First off, when managing by iPod(s) I by chance happened to notice some tracks were missing. And not just not being in the expected sort order position after an action modifying the iPod database (I've noticed that can sometimes happen, as mentioned in the FAQ), but not being there at all, confirmed by looking at the "Manage contents" listing. When transfering the music, I had done that in many smaller chunks of around 2K tracks at a time (these were the initial big transferings following a factory reset done in iTunes), reasoning any potential errors or other issues would be less of a hassle to locate and fix as opposed to if I had dropped everything in one go. But there had been no error messages at any point, so expected each transfer had gone fine and didn't check after each chunk of files transfered. Should there have been messages when those 'skipped' files happened?
 
I know foo_dop at least shows a message when duplicate files already found on the iPod have not been transfered. To my knowledge, it shouldn't have been issues with the files themselves, as adding them after noticing their absence worked perfectly fine. Also, when doing these transfers of rather large bunches of files, I let my PC do that undisturbed, not doing other stuff at the same time.
Oh well, now I know to always check and confirm that all the transfered files have made it onto the iPod. Checking through the contents of two iPods for missing tracks, totaling around 52K tracks combines, took a little while...  :P :D Thank goodness for the "by artist" grouping option! That made checking the iPods' contents a lot smoother and faster. 


Now the the second thing oddity was perhaps even weirder. Earlier this week I noticed the odd iPod track here and there showing up in Foobar at the wrong positions in the 'iPod view' listing, with wrong track information to boot, that switched to showing the correct data when playing said track. Re-toggling the sorting made the affected track then show up in the expected correct spot, until you loaded the iPod library again.
Example: one time loading the iPod library, I had Satyricon's album Now Diabolical show two track #8s, "To The Mountains", the other being the real thing and the other turning out to be Primordial's "To The Edge Of The Earth" when playing them.
This phenomenon seemed to be happening purely on the Foobar/foo_dop side of things - the "Manage contents" listing showed these tracks shown in wrong position with initially incorrect information to be there on the iPod, with correct information, and they also appeared correctly on the iPod itself. It would seem that the "Rewrite database" command fixed the issue, however.

Any idea what could have caused this kind of behavior? I had never had this kind of thing happen before, the only difference I can think of is that I currently have two iPods that I've managed, as opposed to just one. Could that have had something to do with it?

I'm currently running v1.3.9 of Foobar2000 and 0.6.9.6 of foo_dop. Both somewhat outdated, admittedly. These issues might be something already fixed in newer version(s)?


Thanks again!  8)

 

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4153
Yes, if an error was encountered, or the file type isn't supported by the iPod etc., it will normally be reported at the end of the process.

One thing to be aware of is that if iTunes is running at the same time as foobar2000, iTunes can (later) overwrite the iTunesDB file on the iPod with what it had in memory which would cause whatever changes iPod manager made to the iPod to be lost.

You could try the 'Recover orphaned tracks' command; it looks for songs stored on the iPod but not in its database (and re-adds any it finds to the database).

On the confused tracks problem, that does sound odd but could happen if the file located at a particular file path has changed. Essentially, initially you're seeing the metadata of the file that was previously stored there, and playing the track causes the metadata to be re-read.

If it's getting confused between the two iPods, it would suggest that they're both being mounted at the same drive letter (not at the same time, of course), and those songs have the same path on both devices. Are either of those true?
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Re: iPod manager

Reply #4154
I'm getting a security warning (Trojan) from Malwarebytes when I try to visit yuo.be/ipod_manager
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4155
Thanks, false positive again.



Re: iPod manager

Reply #4158
Hi there!
Sorry if this is a dumb question (I think  it was answered somewhere but I can't find the solution anymore), but what do I need to do if the iPod manager can't find any metadata for some tracks? The tracks just appear with their filename, four letters in caps, and nothing else. Makes it really hard to find the song I want!

I have an iPod Nano 7th gen, using v0.7.2 of the manager and v1.6 of foobar. I should also note, I'm not using the manager to sync the iPod, only to view and play tracks from the iPod.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for this great plugin!

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4159
That sounds like those files don't contain any embedded metadata (or foobar2000 doesn't understand the metadata).

How did you tag those files initially?
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Re: iPod manager

Reply #4160
I didn't tag them, iTunes did (I still use iTunes to sync and manage my iPod on my desktop. I use foobar and iPod manager to access and listen to music from my iPod on my laptop). So I'm pretty sure they have metadata.

There is no obvious pattern to which songs are affected by this, though all songs in an album are affected, and it's always the same albums.

Even stranger, I just realized that the Quicksearch foobar plugin is able to find and read the metadata from the songs - but when you try to play them you get errors:

these first two are successful, and found through the playlist generated by iPod manager
Opening track for playback: "D:\iPod_Control\Music\F08\YBVP.m4a"
Opening track for playback: "D:\iPod_Control\Music\F40\MFDW.m4a"
these next two are unsuccessful, and found through the playlist generated by Quick search
Opening track for playback: "http://192.xxx.xxx/content/d6c958a439a21a634ff4f10ccdd1f249.wav?profile_id=1&convert=wav"
Unable to open item for playback (Network error):
"http://192.xxx.xxx/content/d6c958a439a21a634ff4f10ccdd1f249.wav?profile_id=1&convert=wav"
Opening track for playback: "http://192.168.1.74:56923/content/ec7569930a2c18dbef9e605f0a9a7510.wav?profile_id=1&convert=wav"
Unable to open item for playback (Network error):
"http://192.xxx.xxx/content/ec7569930a2c18dbef9e605f0a9a7510.wav?profile_id=1&convert=wav"

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4161
I'm not sure what those URLs are (a search suggests foo_upnp) but they're not directly related to the iPod or the component.

The same basic conclusion holds, if you can play the songs but foobar2000 isn't showing any metadata for them (other than the file name) then it's not finding any metadata in the files.

You could try opening Properties for one of the files (in foobar2000), and then clicking on Tools and Reload info. If it succeeds and there's still no metadata displayed, it would confirm the above.

You could also check if the same holds true for the original files on your computer. If those files are OK, it would suggest they are somehow different from the ones on your iPod.

If foobar2000 isn't showing any metadata for the original files, you could check in another program such as Mp3tag to see if it can read any metadata from them.
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Re: iPod manager

Reply #4162
Yup, yup, you're completely right, I was being dumb!
Checked in foobar and windows explorer, those files are simply missing metadata. I'll just have to go update the metadata on my desktop later. (And you guessed right: the Quick Search was finding songs in an old UPnP Search playlist that I hadn't flushed!)
Thanks so much, and sorry for the bother!

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4163
is it possible to control voice-over language with tag per track?

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4164
Unfortunately not, I believe it will just use the system default voice.

You could try temporarily changing the system voice in Windows Settings or Control Panel and then sending the tracks that are in a different language (removing them first if needed), and then changing the voice back.
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Re: iPod manager

Reply #4165
hey there. i just got an ipod classic 7th gen, and i'm trying to put my music via foobar on my ipod. the problem is, i'm on mac so i'm using foobar via wine (through PlayOnMac to be more specific).

but my ipod isnt recognized by foo_dop, it says "iPod not found" when I try to load the library. I tried loading my ipod on my friends foobar running on a Windows laptop, and it worked fine (he doesnt even have itunes nor apple mobile device support installed).

does anybody knows how to transfer music to ipod using foobar (on wine)? thank you!

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4166
foo_dop does not work in Wine. It requires iTunes libraries on Windows, and even then, it requires hardware access. I don't think that will work with Wine any time soon.

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4167
foo_dop does not work in Wine. It requires iTunes libraries on Windows, and even then, it requires hardware access. I don't think that will work with Wine any time soon.

thats a bummer man... thank you for the answer! guess i'll just have to use windows then to update my library.

another issue i have concerning ipod manager, is about album sorting order.
i did change to sort artists by the album artists metadata instead, but also i wish i could sort the albums (right after selecting the artist) per release year, and not alphabetically. is there a way i can do that?

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4168
Sorry, been a while again... But at least now I got some new observations.

One thing to be aware of is that if iTunes is running at the same time as foobar2000, iTunes can (later) overwrite the iTunesDB file on the iPod with what it had in memory which would cause whatever changes iPod manager made to the iPod to be lost.
I feel this possibility can be passed over, since I'm using iTunes at all except in case I need to do factory restores. I've been keeping it installed though, so iTunesHelper.exe is running in the background - I'd presume that not being able to affect iPod usage with Foobar2000+foo_dop in any way?

Quote
You could try the 'Recover orphaned tracks' command; it looks for songs stored on the iPod but not in its database (and re-adds any it finds to the database).
I haven't tried that, but I doubt it's an issue with files present on iPod but in its database, since the total track count has always been accurate when loading up an iPod's library in FOob

Quote
On the confused tracks problem, that does sound odd but could happen if the file located at a particular file path has changed. Essentially, initially you're seeing the metadata of the file that was previously stored there, and playing the track causes the metadata to be re-read.
Do you mean for files on the computer or on the iPod?

Quote
If it's getting confused between the two iPods, it would suggest that they're both being mounted at the same drive letter (not at the same time, of course), and those songs have the same path on both devices. Are either of those true?
The iPods indeed do get mounted at the same drive letter, but I don't feel the songs would have same file paths, at least past a certain point - on my 160GB 7th gen I have had to leave out stuff while on my flash modded 5.5 gen I can keep my entire library. Also, don't the file paths get more or less randomized when stuff is added on an iPod anyway?

The new observations
- Since last time, I've updated to Foobar2000 version v1.6.2 and foo_dop 0.7.2
- The file confusion issue has stayed the same: whenever I plug into my other iPod, it's very likely that file misplacing occurs on loading up the library. As mentioned above, I've never seen files going 'missing', the total track count has always been correct.
- Doing the "Rewrite database" makes the library load up correctly and in proper order. This doesn't need to be done every time, just when managing a different iPod than last time.

It indeed would seem like it's a computer/Foobar/foo_dop side issue - I came across a telling manifestation of the phenomenon just this week:
- I had done new audio rips of the DVDs of Metallica's Live Shit box set and updated the tags on the CD portion of it. To keep it simple, I thought I'd just delete all three albums and re-add them on my two iPods.
- 7th gen goes first. My 5.5 gen had been plugged in before, so I do the usual plug in > rewrite database thing. Deleted old versions of those 3 albums, re-added new copies. Everything goes OK, as expected.

- 5.5 gen was next. Interested in seeing if it does the misplaced file / wrong displayed tag thing again, I plugged in and loaded up library first, then scrolled down to the albums I'd be deleting and re-adding: and yep, file misplacement and wrong tags displayed, but with an album title tag that iPod did not have on it!
The previous rips of the box set that were still on the 5.5. gen had the album title in the format "Live Shit - [city] [year]" - on the updated/re-ripped ones I had changed it to the complete form "Live Shit: Binge & Purge". That newly updated album title could not have been read off the iPod. (see screenshot attached)
Rewrite database + load library combo then got the library read and shown correctly as expected, so no problems there in the end, when knowing what to expect.

What could be causing this behavior? I'm no programmer and have zero clue of iPods' or Foobar's inner workings, but this would seem like the "Load library" command doesn't result in the library to be loaded up quite 100% correctly, when it can shows a tag that's simply not present on the presently connected iPod, but found on the previously connected one after re-adding that album there.
Could the "Rewrite database" command force a more thorough loading of the library somehow, or what? And how could tag data from the previously connected iPod be left "floating around" and be erroneously 're-used' like this... Weird.

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4169
Do you mean for files on the computer or on the iPod?
The iPod.

Also, don't the file paths get more or less randomized when stuff is added on an iPod anyway?
iTunes uses random file names, but iPod manager truncates file names.

Could the "Rewrite database" command force a more thorough loading of the library somehow, or what?
Yes, it does additional checks on whether the file size or last modified date of the files has changed from what is loaded in foobar2000.

And how could tag data from the previously connected iPod be left "floating around" and be erroneously 're-used' like this... Weird.
Most probably in the iPod view playlist open in foobar2000. From there, it could end up polluting the cache iPod manager keeps on the iPod.

Have you tried using Disk Management in Windows to assign one of the iPods a different letter?
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Re: iPod manager

Reply #4170
And how could tag data from the previously connected iPod be left "floating around" and be erroneously 're-used' like this... Weird.
Most probably in the iPod view playlist open in foobar2000. From there, it could end up polluting the cache iPod manager keeps on the iPod.

Quote
Have you tried using Disk Management in Windows to assign one of the iPods a different letter?
I presume like instructed here, via Windows' Disk Management tools? I actually haven't yet. I'll give that a try and report back! Thanks.

Btw, do you feel if I should re-assign both my iPods a new drive letter, or would re-assigning just the other suffice? (Assumably letters on the other end the alphabet would be best? Less, if any, chance of other devices being assigned those)

Re: iPod manager

Reply #4171
Yes, reassigning both and leaving a gap from other drive letters might be better (though the important thing is that they don't clash). You can delete metadata_cache.fpl from the root of both drives at the same time to wipe the component's own metadata cache as that uses relative paths (or running 'Rewrite database' again afterwards should have a similar effect).
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