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What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Hi there,
I'm looking to build a PC dedicated to ripping.  After a semi-successful weekend 'ripping party' (we ripped 1500 CD's in two days, but our target was 5,000...lol... a true learning experience that I intend to document in the future), I'm convinced I want to build a machine dedicated to this task.

My goal is to build a PC with an optimal, but not overkill, hardware configuration for EAC, two or three of the best CDROM drives for EAC, and a Powerfile c-200.  I would then configure the OS and EAC to run optimally for the hardware.

Questions:
1. What is the best CDROM drive for EAC?  It looks like one of the best drives is the Plextor PX-230A, but it has a 2MB cache -- cache is bad when it comes to ripping, right?  Is there a way to disable the cache, or is there a better drive? or a cacheless drive?  I figure I would put 2 or three drives in the machine to run in lieu of the powerfile when doing a handfull of discs, or problem discs.

2.  Can I script EAC for use with a Powerfile?  How would I handle FreeDB selection?  How would I handle bad discs?

3.  What should the minimum PC config be?  What are some things to look for, and things to avoid? (I.E. "don't use an AMD cpu" or "Get this motherboard" or "Don't use IDE".... etc.)  When ripping two or three discs at once, what hardware choices can one make to optimize this?

I guess I'll leave it at that and hope a discussion starts up, or if someone would kindly point me to a similar thread...

Thanks in advance,

Scott

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #1
You know, this is actually a good question. I have had various results with using EAC with different drives. My previous PC had 2 drives, a Pioneer 500M and an ASUS CRW-5224A. My current computer has a Lite-On SOHW-1673S. I'll breifly overview my experiences with these drives. It may not help directly answer your question, but it gives insight into how differently various drives can work with EAC. All of these experiences were had in the standard secure mode in EAC.

The Pioneer 500M was strictly a DVD-ROM. It would usually start ripping the CD around 2x and gradually increase to about 18x by the time the CD was done. There were 2 strange things I noticed though. First, if it encountered a minor error at any point on the CD, the read speed would drop to 2x and stay at 2x for the rest of the CD. Also, if it encountered a major read error, it would take forever to get through it... and when I say forever, I mean that each red box in the error check diagram would take about 10 minutes to fill. I left one CD going overnight and it still didn't finish. For the longest time, I thought that EAC was freezing up... it took THAT long to get through damaged portions of discs.

The ASUS CRW-5224A was the best ripping drive that I have used. It was a 52x CD-r. Like the Pioneer, it would start ripping at 2x and finish at about 18x. However, when the ASUS encountered a read error, it would only drop down to 2x temporarily. It would speed back up again after the damaged portion of the CD was done being ripped. Also, when it encountered a major read error, it would go a lot faster than the Pioneer. Usually a red box would fill in after about 10 seconds. I could rip a really bad CD in about 2 hours, and a good CD in about 5-10 minutes.

My current drive is the Lite-On SOHW-1673S, a 16x DVD+-RW. When I start ripping a CD, the speed is around 2x, and by the end of the CD, the speed only gets to about 4x. It takes quite a while to complete a rip. However, it's error handling is about as good as the ASUS, so I can't complain too much.

If you plan on getting a good drive for ripping, it may be in your best interests to get a recommendation from someone who actually uses the drive as opposed to looking at specs alone. I still don't know what caused the differences in speed and error correction in my 3 drives.

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #2
Quote
1. What is the best CDROM drive for EAC?[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=375993"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I will be building a new computer in the next year or so, and I am very interested in this question as well....

Quote
It looks like one of the best drives is the Plextor PX-230A, but it has a 2MB cache -- cache is bad when it comes to ripping, right?  Is there a way to disable the cache, or is there a better drive? or a cacheless drive?[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=375993"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Another good question. And if there are indeed cacheless drives, what (if any) disadvantages do they have?
foobar2000 + EAC + Burrrn = Happiness

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #3
Toshiba drives (especially the 1512/1612/1712 DVD-ROM drives) have a reputation for being very fast rippers. I've used the latter two with EAC for quite some time now.

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #4
Quote
Toshiba drives (especially the 1512/1612/1712 DVD-ROM drives) have a reputation for being very fast rippers. I've used the latter two with EAC for quite some time now.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=376082"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have a Toshiba SD-R1612 drive.  However it is not all that great for DAE.  It is a caching drive, so it goes slower with that disabled.  It is still rather fast though.  Also it doesn't handle scratches nearly as well as my Lite-On SOHR-5239S.  Also the Lite-On can blow through discs even with caching disabled.  I also have a Plextor PX-W4012A and a LG GSA-4167B.  The Plextor handles most scratched discs well.  The Plextor can read some scratched discs the Lite-On can't and the Lite-On some the Plextor can't.  So some drives read some types of scratches better than others.  If your using EAC with offset correct and other proper settings you may as well go for a drive that can overread.  The Pioneer DVR-10x series can overread, as well as most Plextor drives, aside from the BenQ rebadges.  But with caching disabled these drives won't be super fast.  The LG GSA-4167B drive is a non-caching drive, and very fast.  It does not like scratches though.  If all of your CD's are in mint condition and you want perfect rips you may as well get a Plextor or one of the mentioned Pioneer drives.  If speed is your only concern, get a non-caching drive.  Also, C2 correction is not useful for secure extraction.  That's my take from my personal experience.  Although I'm always on the lookout for a better drive for DAE.

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #5
If you don't insist on using EAC but use Plextools instead (which is as safe for extraction as EAC in secure mode but offers less options), you can use Plextor drives. Plextools automatically uses offset correction, overrides drive cache and uses C2/CU error pointers from the drive, which means you can rip with the drive at full speed, like EAC in burst mode. And if you ever encounter problematic, scratched discs, Plextools is in general much better able to deal with them than EAC, and a lot faster, too.
Proverb for Paranoids: "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers."
-T. Pynchon (Gravity's Rainbow)

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #6
Quote
Also, C2 correction is not useful for secure extraction.  That's my take from my personal experience.  Although I'm always on the lookout for a better drive for DAE.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=376093"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Various guides suggest disabling C2 in EAC.

AFAIK if enabling the C2 option in EAC it uses C2 for error detection, not correction. I think using C2 for error correction was only possible with older versions.

Are there any potential undetected errors if using C2 error detection combined with test&copy?

I ask this because the C2 detection seems to work fine on my drive and it's much faster using C2.

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #7
I have had very good luck with Lite-On and Plextor drives for ripping.

These are some results from cdrlabs:

CD DAE     Avg. Speed     Errors     % of Disc

Plextor PX-750A
   27.7x    3047701    0.39%

ASUS DRW-1608P2
   27.3x    21813871    2.78%

NEC ND-4550A
   8.2x    167095050    21.32%

LG GSA-4167B
   28.5x    4844005    0.62%

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #8
Hmmm... sounds like going with Plextools could be a good route.  Does Plextools use CDDB?  Can you run multiple instances of it?

Considering the rest of the PC, is there a practical limitation as to how many drives I can concurrently rip with on a PC?  What are the bottlenecks?  What different ways can drives be attached to the PC to work around these bottlenecks (USB2.0, Firewire, multiple IDE controllers, etc.)  What about writing to multiple hard drives?  What about software stability?  I've attempted to rip with as many as 5 drives at once with limited success, but on old hardware (one IDE attached drive, and 4 USB 2.0 attached drives all writing to one hard drive on a P3, 256MB RAM; I could achieve 4X at best in secure mode, but I would crash the PC after a while), so I'm wondering what would happen if I addressed all of the hardware rather than just the drives, and what kind of improvements I can make...

Also, does anyone have any insight on using EAC with a Powerfile?

Thanks for everyone's responses...

Scott


What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #10
I have about 5,000 discs to rip.  I'm a collector and a dj, and I'm tired of having half of my discs in storage and not being able to listen to them.  I also have friends in the dj business that want to do the same, so I'm trying to put together a 'controlled' system for them to use to rip their collections as well -- a different spin on the current service model of sending your discs to a professional to have ripped -- instead you could rent or borrow (I'm not looking to make money really) a "ripping system" to do your own quality DAE.  Alot of people have the time to do their own dae, but not the know-how to do it as best as possible -- there are so many variables, unless you do extensive research, you are likely going to make a mistake.

From what I've found the most complicated part of successful dae is your setup -- using the right software, tweaking it for your hardware, a well thought out and properly applied naming convention, a properly configured encoder, etc.  Most DJ's aren't computer savvy enough to take on the task of converting to MP3's, or more specifically to do it right the first time -- which is incredibly important when ripping this many discs.  So my thought is to make a small (less than $1,000) investment in a hardware/software setup specifically for this purpose.  If all I do is rip my own discs, I will have saved money by not going to a professional service (but not time! oh well, it's fun) and I'll have the ability to rip new music as I get it.

Imagine being a dj and sending off your collection to get ripped:  Great... you're all set.  But 2 days later you go out and buy 10 new discs... now what?  If you don't know what you're doing, you won't be able to achieve the same quality, the same naming convention, etc...

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #11
It sounds like we are about to run into the terms of service.

9. All members must refrain from posting links to -- or information regarding how to obtain -- copyrighted or illegal material. Discussion containing information of how to obtain such material, how to bypass protection methodologies of such material, or how to otherwise violate laws pertaining to such matters will not be tolerated, and participating members may be subject to administrative action.

You do of course own all of the CD's you are ripping at these parties yes?

Edit: grammar

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #12
how does this violate #9?  ripping your own discs is legal in many places and he's not bragging about how to mass-copy other people's discs for himself.  it's pretty clear to me at least this discussion has technical merit.  leave the TOS smackdown to the mods.

Josh

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #13
to jcoalson

Quote
I'm looking to build a PC dedicated to ripping. After a semi-successful weekend 'ripping party' (we ripped 1500 CD's in two days, but our target was 5,000...lol... a true learning experience that I intend to document in the future), I'm convinced I want to build a machine dedicated to this task.


I have been a member for some time and enjoy the wealth of information here. I would hate to see HA closed for piracy related issues.
If you have nothing to contribute other than giving me a hard time, you may want to move to another thread.

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #14
Yes, I do in fact own all of these CD's.  Like I said I'm trying to not only rip my own collection, but to empower people in the same position as me without them having to go through the research I've gone through (for their own use, of course).  It's one thing to understand good dae from a technical perspective, but another to apply it properly to a hardware platform, hence to concept of putting together a dedicated, preconfigured hardware/software system for other people to use.  I know at least 6 other DJ's that want to do this but have no idea how to go about it.

I make too much money in this business to jeopardize it by dealing in pirated material, but I appreciate your concern, and share the same ideology.  Having spent over $50,000 on music in the last 15 years, I, too, am sensitive to the idea of 'mass trading' or 'ripping parties', as I can appreciate the monetary investment.  I'll clarify my first post by pointing out the only music we were attempting to rip was my own.

Regards
Scott

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #15
Smack2000, thank you for clearing that up.

jcoalson, I didn't see that you are a FLAC developer at first. Thank you for a great utility.

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #16
Back in the 'good old days' you could get an external enclosure and hook up about six SCSI CDROM drives. These days the best I can think of is several SCSI to IDE converters for the IDE ripping drives. Let me know if you want me to look into it. It would not be cheap. To the best of my knowledge, you could rip about 6 or 8 disks at a time without issues.

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #17
Here are a couple of converters. This way you would only have to buy one SCSI controller, and use one IRQ. IDE and SATA don't seem like they will give you the number of drives you are shooting for. You could theoretically go up to 15 drives.

http://www.addonics.com/products/io/atapi_scsi.asp

http://www.pc-pitstop.com/scsi_ide_adapters/aec7722.asp

Edit:

There are some used Plextor SCSI drives on www.pricewatch.com.
I can't vouch for the stores or condition of the drives. That would be cheaper as long as the drives are in good condition.

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #18
sorry ddrawley, I wasn't trying to give you a hard time, I just didn't want to see a good discussion get derailed over what he may or may not be doing.  especially we should not let fear of reprisal created by a corrupt industry turn us all into police for them.

I trust the mods will handle it.

Scott, another place to get a hardware answer may be the slimdevices forums.  slim has a ripping service and one of the guys from cdbaby.com frequents there (I remember him describing their big setup; I think it involved parallel drives and cdparanoia).

Josh

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #19
But the RIAA are our 'friends' 

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #20
Hmm... I have access to alot of SCSI hardware, and I think my friend has an old SCSI CDROM tower actually... I'll have to look into what I have.  So SCSI would give you the throughput you need to run so many drives concurrently... What about putting multiple IDE or SATA cards in a PC? -- I've never really considered the implications, but IDE controllers are cheap...

I like the idea on the converter cards, but at $80/drive, I think they will be cost prohibitive for my project.  Do you think the performance of say, three or four IDE drives on a scsi card with these converters would be better than attaching the same 3 or 4 drives with USB2.0-IDE converters?  They only cost $10...

Thanks,
Scott

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #21
I would suggest plextor drives only if you want the best setup - and with $50k in music its a small investment.

I would suggest trying to find a few different plextor drives, the premium, 52x24, 48x24, ect. Maybe 3 drives for the system. You should also get alot of ram and a dual core processor (or maybe 2)

I would use:
-EAC in secure mode with the -USEFUA (to disable the drive cache - only works with plex drives) command and drive chaches audio unchecked.

-Rip with Test&Copy (shift f6) and use AccurateRip w/ overread into lead in/out.

-Archive to FLAC or WavePack (with that much music you only want to do this once).

You are going to want external storage, the Buffalo TeraStation 1.6TB (or maybe 2 for your collection). Im guessing about 1.75 TB for 5000 CD. Using Raid 5 for backup with the 1.6 will give you 1.2 (roughly ~1.1 in reality) of space. Put A-M on the first drive, and N-Z on the second and it would give you a little room to grow.

Your looking at ~4k if you want to do the project really right.

Check the link in my sig for more...

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #22
Samsung TS-E552U external DVD Burner tested one of the highest I have seen.
27.5X in secure mode
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/184/3
I would have the extraction exit on error because you could try cleaning cd.  I know Plextors have excellent record for being able to read copy protected CDs. I think scsi is a good interface but few new drives. External drives might be good option in that you don't have to worry about a power supply that can spin up 10 drives or a huge case.
I would suggest you look at CD or DVD burners becuase opening a duplication business would be a good way to write off some of a ripping machine.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=19370
I am interested to hear your results.

Paul

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #23
Ah Plextor and Plextools again. The Plextor myth. This bull**t cost me dearly.

I am sure I tried to rip via two drives using Plextools. It did not work.

Edit: I had a good rant on the rubbishness of Plextor-s and Plextools, but deleted until I take the trouble to collect my DAE experience together in a digestable form. I do not want to be accused of TOS violation. All I say is do DAE tests and do not believe that Plextor is uniquely better. It is not.

What is the best/fastest drive for EAC?

Reply #24
This link is probably outdated:
DAE Speed Results
http://www.cdspeed2000.com/go.php3?link=daeresults.php3

But it's interesting.  The fun thing about this is that once you do find a drive that does a good job, it's discontinued, and you need to find a replacement.

I'm actually in a very similar position to Smack2000, as I DJ and have some very large collections of DJ music that need to be ripped (and of course, it's always being added to).  Over the years I've used so many drives, but it's pretty hard to find one that is a clear winner.  I've usually had good luck with Plextor drives, but some other drives have worked well too.  There can be a lot of variation between products.

I have a BenQ 1620A (I think) that is almost useless for Ripping Audio, so I would recommend staying away from that line of DVD Burners.

Smack2000, I'd like to contact you.  I'll PM you shortly.

 
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