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Fix VBR Header function useless

ok, all I wanted was to cut a Lame --preset standard file using a cue sheet. I've tried several tools (including MP3DirectCut) but none of them "didn't really cut it". They all cut it more or less randomly adding / skipping 30+ seconds.

Anyway, I came accross a tool that was finally able to perfectly cut vbr files:

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MusiCutter is the only one cutting VBR Correctly.

Just make sure you choose in Settings > Specific > Adjust cut point to mpeg frame

Choose "before"


unfortunately, that program doesn't write new vbr headers. Therefore, I used foobar's "Fix VBR header". It all seemed to work like a charm. The length was displayed correctly and everything. However, neither iTunes nor WMP were able to seek within the file. The length was shown correctly, but when I skipped portions of the song, the file all of a suddden would play longer than it's original length.

Now, even though MP3DirectCut cut the files at the wrong places, the files don't suffer from that problem.

I ended up running the files through VBR Fix after processed by foobar and that seems to do the trick.

My question: what does VBR fix do that foobar can't do and why is that? Also, I noticed it is impossible to disable the padding in foobar, even though it says one should put a '0' in that case...

Btw.: I'm using Foobar 0.9b12

thanks
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'


Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #2
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Have you checked out pcutmp3 yet?

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=35654
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352413"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

thanks, but I was more interested in foobar's function. It seems to be like a bug...
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'


Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #4
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Why couldn't it be a problem with other tools in your tool chain?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352554"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

because even when you apply it to a perfectly working file foobar breaks it...
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'


Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #6
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How does it break it? How do you know it's perfect? Don't be vague.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352576"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

come on. Don't be silly. Foobar is a great program, but that fuctions has some flaws - or let's say, room for improvement.

Even when you encode a file using --preset standard and apply foobar's fix vbr header tool, it destroys the ability for other programs to seek within the song correctly. The question is why does foobar do it, since other tools are able to do this without breaking the file...

I understand you love foobar, so let's fix this issue to make it an even greater tool
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #7
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Even when you encode a file using --preset standard and apply foobar's fix vbr header tool, it destroys the ability for other programs to seek within the song correctly. The question is why does foobar do it, since other tools are able to do this without breaking the file...[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352678"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just tried exactly what you said with windows media player 9, it seeks without any problems.
Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #8
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How does it break it? How do you know it's perfect? Don't be vague.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352576"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

come on. Don't be silly. Foobar is a great program, but that fuctions has some flaws - or let's say, room for improvement.

Even when you encode a file using --preset standard and apply foobar's fix vbr header tool, it destroys the ability for other programs to seek within the song correctly. The question is why does foobar do it, since other tools are able to do this without breaking the file...

I understand you love foobar, so let's fix this issue to make it an even greater tool
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352678"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Um, I'm offended.  I think you're missing my point. Don't apply "Fix VBR header..." on normal files, use a proper program to cut MP3 files, and don't say something is useless in front of its maker if you want help.

If you want help, be helpful. That was what I was trying to say.

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #9
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Even when you encode a file using --preset standard and apply foobar's fix vbr header tool, it destroys the ability for other programs to seek within the song correctly. The question is why does foobar do it, since other tools are able to do this without breaking the file...[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352678"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just tried exactly what you said with windows media player 9, it seeks without any problems.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352730"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

yes it seeks, but after you jumped to a different position let the song finish. You'll notice that the song plays much longer than it's length. If you don't seek in the song at all it all works.


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Quote
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How does it break it? How do you know it's perfect? Don't be vague.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352576"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

come on. Don't be silly. Foobar is a great program, but that fuctions has some flaws - or let's say, room for improvement.

Even when you encode a file using --preset standard and apply foobar's fix vbr header tool, it destroys the ability for other programs to seek within the song correctly. The question is why does foobar do it, since other tools are able to do this without breaking the file...

I understand you love foobar, so let's fix this issue to make it an even greater tool
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352678"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Um, I'm offended.  I think you're missing my point. Don't apply "Fix VBR header..." on normal files, use a proper program to cut MP3 files, and don't say something is useless in front of its maker if you want help.

If you want help, be helpful. That was what I was trying to say.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352741"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention. I'm not using the tool on working files, it was just to illustrate what the tool does (and that it is not the file's fault). Now I don't get you, if I shouldn't use the tool on a working file and use a proper program to cut mp3's instead, what would be the need of foobar's fix VBR header function?

I still don't understand why the Fix VBR functions removes the seek information. Is there any possibility to add the seek information (like the other program I posted does?) The sources are available on the author's website, so maybe you can take a look and see how he does it?

thanks
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #10
I'm not the maker of foobar2000's "Fix VBR header..." feature, zZzZzZz is.

You're meant to use the fix VBR header function on broken VBR files. If you use pcutmp3, I doubt you'll get broken files.

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #11
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Even when you encode a file using --preset standard and apply foobar's fix vbr header tool, it destroys the ability for other programs to seek within the song correctly. The question is why does foobar do it, since other tools are able to do this without breaking the file...[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352678"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just tried exactly what you said with windows media player 9, it seeks without any problems.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352730"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

yes it seeks, but after you jumped to a different position let the song finish. You'll notice that the song plays much longer than it's length. If you don't seek in the song at all it all works.
I just tried that now, WMP9 still has no problems with all the mp3's i tested it with.
Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #12
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Quote
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Even when you encode a file using --preset standard and apply foobar's fix vbr header tool, it destroys the ability for other programs to seek within the song correctly. The question is why does foobar do it, since other tools are able to do this without breaking the file...[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352678"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just tried exactly what you said with windows media player 9, it seeks without any problems.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352730"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

yes it seeks, but after you jumped to a different position let the song finish. You'll notice that the song plays much longer than it's length. If you don't seek in the song at all it all works.
I just tried that now, WMP9 still has no problems with all the mp3's i tested it with.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=352997"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

that's strange. I've tested it with WMP10 and iTunes. Can you try to jump from the very beginning to 3 seconds before the song ends? I'll try to upload a sample you can try...
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #13
ok, I've uploaded a sample...it's just random noise so don't get too excited 

Anyway, if you jump to almost the very end right after it starts playing (using WMP10 or iTunes) the original file will stop after 5:03 minutes (original length 5:02), however, with the file I gave the foobar treatment, the file will play another 20 seconds (the timer stops though).

iTunes' timer actually keeps running unless you have more than 1 song in the playlist.

Anyway, in both cases make sure that there is just 1 (one) file in the playlist.

Here is the link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1GIAL1FF
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #14
Using the samples you uploaded i can reproduce the problem on WMP9.
Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #15
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Using the samples you uploaded i can reproduce the problem on WMP9.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=353430"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

so I'm not the only one then...
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #16
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Using the samples you uploaded i can reproduce the problem on WMP9.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=353430"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

ok, just to make sure. Do you feel like sharing the samples you used that worked on your machine? Let's see if those work on mine too....
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #17
The only samples that i could reproduce the problem with was the ones you uploaded, i can't do it with any of my mp3's (all of them have had the mp3 header fix ran on them)
Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #18
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The only samples that i could reproduce the problem with was the ones you uploaded, i can't do it with any of my mp3's (all of them have had the mp3 header fix ran on them)
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=356261"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

can you encode a file, make a copy of it, apply fix vbr to one of the files and upload them? thanks
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #19
Ok, i made you 2x30 second samples.

both encoded with 3.97b2 -V2 --vbr-new

output.mp3 = no header fix used
output.headerfix.mp3 = header fix used

I quickly tested the headerfix sample in WMP 9, and it does actually make it screw up, it's like WMP doesn't skip ahead when you drag the seekbar to the right, it stutters and the timer jumps but the music hasn't jumped forward

The output sample seeks as it should in WMP 9

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JPPSQLAQ (only a 1.10mb download)

i wonder why the filesizes are different between the two files, you would expect that the header that lame puts on is fine.
Code: [Select]
586,779 output.headerfix.mp3
586,988 output.mp3


I urge other people to try this and post there results
Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #20
I've the same problem with your files as well. That means: We both can reproduce it with my files, but only I can reproduce it with your files? That seems a bit odd. It becomes more obvious if you try samples that are at least 3 minutes long, but even with your 30 second sample, WMP + iTunes kept playing for at least another 20 seconds after it reached the 30 second mark. You have to jump right to the end though after it started playing...the other file in the package is fine (as expected).
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #21
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That means: We both can reproduce it with my files, but only I can reproduce it with your files? That seems a bit odd.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=356926"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sorry to quote myself, but
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I quickly tested the headerfix sample in WMP 9, and it does actually make it screw up, it's like WMP doesn't skip ahead when you drag the seekbar to the right, it stutters and the timer jumps but the music hasn't jumped forward
e.g. i can reproduce the problem with my sample

i'm surprised only you and i have confirmed this problem
Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #22
Confirmed.
Only players that do inaccurate seeking on MP3 files are affected by this problem; I guess that's why it took so long for anyone to notice this.

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #23
@ A_Man_Eating_Duck

my bad. I didn't read your second past carefully enough and was still referring to your first statement where you said you could only reproduce it with my sample

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Confirmed.
Only players that do inaccurate seeking on MP3 files are affected by this problem; I guess that's why it took so long for anyone to notice this.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=356953"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

which is 99% of all audio players? As I said, WMP as well as iTunes have problems with it. I don't use WinAmp so I couldn't test it, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't effected as well. So, is this going to be fixed?
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

Fix VBR Header function useless

Reply #24
It is fixed for next beta. You will be able to fix "broken" files by rerunning updated version of header fix on them.

 
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