Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: What Should I Replace First? (Read 11153 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

What Should I Replace First?

What I would like to know is where you think my first investment in my audio-system should be. This is what I got:

Speakers: JBL - TLX161 - [original price: 1199DKR. ~ 157USD ~ 165EUR] * 2

Amp.: Technics - AV control stereo receiver SA-EX320 [couldn't find the original price - around 2000DKR ~ 263USD ~ 276EUR]

CD player: Yamaha - natural sound compact disc player CDX-396 [original price: 1695DKR. ~ 222USD ~ 234EUR]

Soundcard: AudioClip Pro 16-bit ES1868 PnP [old, really don't remember the price; very cheap...estimation, under: 200DKR ~ 26USD ~ 28EUR]

Is any of this any good?
What should I replace first?

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #1 –
You have different levels of 'good'...

I always like to think of an audio system as one complete thing, so if you have a system with $200 speakers with a $200 amp then it is pretty well matched. The next level might be $500 speakers and $500 amp, but read those reviews - price is not always an indication of quality.

If you want to start go for a modern sound card (with digital out for future amp), that would be your best bet.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #2 –
I'd change the speakers first. I already saw "audiophiles" ampli or CD players in this price range, but never speakers.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #3 –
Quote
I'd change the speakers first. I already saw "audiophiles" ampli or CD players in this price range, but never speakers.

I agree.

Plus, the loudspeakers are almost always the "weakest link" in the audio system, so to speak..

I'd spend as much money as you can there (plus a bit on a sub).  You don't really need to spend a lot of money to get a good amp or cd player.

Oh, and beware of all of those "audiophile" reviews out there

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #4 –
A more accurate estimation for the sound card would be around 5-6 USD or less... so IMO it would be best to change that first

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #5 –
Do you burn cd's or do you hook your computer directly to your system? You may want to look at the soundcard if you are using it for primary playback.

But your biggest improvement for the buck is going to be new speakers.

Please give the B&W series 600 a listen. I go on about my 602's alot, but after selling stereo equipment for a long time when I was younger, I can say I have never been impressed by the value of a component more than what I hear from these speakers.

As far as reviews go, take a look at the what hifi and hifi choice websites. They are easy to navigate and hifi choice especially seems to give honest picks and pans.

PS We always used to advise our customers to spend about double on speakers compared to the amp as a rough rule of thumb.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #6 –
kennedyb4:

Quote
I go on about my 602's alot, but after selling stereo equipment for a long time when I was younger, I can say I have never been impressed by the value of a component more than what I hear from these speakers.


What coincidence! My mother has a pair of B&W 602's. They're very nice indeed, they give crystal-clear sound, although I'm not that impressed by the bass they produce (it sometimes "sticks out" where it shouldn't do, and where it should sound rich and deep, it sounds too thin). Maybe that's just me though, or the setup of the room...

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #7 –
Quote
Please give the B&W series 600 a listen. I go on about my 602's alot, but after selling stereo equipment for a long time when I was younger, I can say I have never been impressed by the value of a component more than what I hear from these speakers.

These speakers are not bad at all.
But most people find them to bright in the high frequency.



I would advice to upgrade the speakers first, and then the amplifier.
The difference between cd player is extremely small.

I'm the lucky owner of a pair B&W 802 Matrix III speakers.
They sound natural like it is intend to sound.

Sometimes you can get second-hand B&W 800 series speakers for a reasonable price.
This is because B&W have the new nautulis 800 series.

The B&W 801 are often used in studios like "abbey road studios".
The 801 is one the most expensive ones, the higher the number the smaller and cheaper they are.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #8 –
if you're going to replace your speakers and probably your amp too, you should really try different speaker/amp matches.

i don't know whether it does apply to the price level you're aiming for as much, but here's just an example from my test listens when i was buying my last stereo (sorry, sadly i can't remember the exact names of the Amps. i think the parasound was a hca1200 and the rotel a 930, but i could be wrong. that was a couple years ago):
Parasound Amp + Infinity 8.2i: quite good, powerful yet uncolored sound
Parasound Amp + JBL TI5000: harsh, lifeless

later (i WISH it would have been before before, i'd most likely own a different setup in that case  ) I had a chance to listen to a different amp in the same chain (same chain, same room, same speaker placement etc)
Rotel Amp + Infinity 8.2i: colored so warm and "sweet" it almost made me puke
Rotel Amp + JBL TI5000: neutral, very dynamic, live-like and ear-pleasing

i wish i knew why the differences are that huge, it's completely losing me..
A riddle is a short sword attached to the next 2000 years.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #9 –
I would go speakers first then soundcard. Most lowend amps/cd players are good enough that the limiting factor would be the speakers. I would then upgrade amp, then cd player. As for speakers, I haven't been following the current models but I'm partial to definitive technology.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #10 –
Your audio need may vary from mine. But I'd upgrade to a €500 + €1000/pair speakers. You might find satisfaction in cheaper models, but soon the need for upgrades will arise again.

I absolutely recommend an analog amplifier - not a receiver and not a digital thing.

- Amplifier technology has not changed much for 20 years or so. An €500 analog amp will serve you 10-15 years. A digtal will soon be outdated, as new digital technology see daylight every few years. Better to get an external DAC or a really good sound card and let the silent pc convert.

- Digital amplifers are mostly designed for the movie experience -- not for music. Sony's QS series has a beautiful aluminium front panel but does a poor job amplifying music.

- It might be possible to build a good amplifer with a built-in tuner. It is however VERY easy to build a real bad one. I have never heard/seen a good receiver.

Since you live in Denmark, I am going to provide you with two resources:

A: http://www.hifiklubben.dk
I do not recommend their products, but they have a nice way of doing business.
* You can listen to the amp and the speakers you intend to buy in the store.
* You can probably borrow the amp and speakers over the weekend if you ask nicely.
* You can buy the items and test them for 8 days - return them for a FULL refund if you are not satisfied.

B: http://www.audiosound.dk/
Mail order store based in Nakskov. Has been around for at least six years. They are usually a lot cheaper than normal stores.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #11 –
Quote
kennedyb4:

Quote
I go on about my 602's alot, but after selling stereo equipment for a long time when I was younger, I can say I have never been impressed by the value of a component more than what I hear from these speakers.


What coincidence! My mother has a pair of B&W 602's. They're very nice indeed, they give crystal-clear sound, although I'm not that impressed by the bass they produce (it sometimes "sticks out" where it shouldn't do, and where it should sound rich and deep, it sounds too thin). Maybe that's just me though, or the setup of the room...

There is only so much that physics will allow from a box this size and price.

I use a Paradigm PS 1200 subwoofer for 60hz and down. No problems there. 

As far as these speakers sounding bright, that is not an accurate statement. If they are connected to a cheap transistor amp, they will sound edgy for sure. I have a SE tube amp as well and it is warm as can be but wildly underpowered.

All B&W speakers will display system faults without mercy higher up the chain.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #12 –
Quote
I absolutely recommend an analog amplifier - not a receiver and not a digital thing.

- Amplifier technology has not changed much for 20 years or so. An €500 analog amp will serve you 10-15 years. A digtal will soon be outdated, as new digital technology see daylight every few years. Better to get an external DAC or a really good sound card and let the silent pc convert.

- Digital amplifers are mostly designed for the movie experience -- not for music. Sony's QS series has a beautiful aluminium front panel but does a poor job amplifying music.

- It might be possible to build a good amplifer with a built-in tuner. It is however VERY easy to build a real bad one. I have never heard/seen a good receiver.

I'm glad i read that..thanks.
Since you know much about all this, i'd be glad to get a recommendation for an amplifier from you, or a link to a site/s about it (i'm not dutch.. so can't really use the links you gave there ).

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #13 –
Definitely speakers. I have a $700 CD player and a $350 receiver pushing $1600 worth of loudspeakers. I could instead have a $200 source component and receiver and I'd still have the pricey speakers. As long as the speakers don't provide an impedance problem, I don't think "audiophile" front-end equipment is necessary, unless you like labels.

One of the favorite memories of my rec.audio.opinion newsgroup days was the thread detailing an ABX test between a Yahama receiver and some high-end amp (a Krell, I think). A self-proclaimed golden ear could not distinguish the two in the double-blind test. His room, his musical material and he still failed.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #14 –
Quote
Definitely speakers. I have a $700 CD player and a $350 receiver pushing $1600 worth of loudspeakers. I could instead have a $200 source component and receiver and I'd still have the pricey speakers. As long as the speakers don't provide an impedance problem, I don't think "audiophile" front-end equipment is necessary, unless you like labels.

One of the favorite memories of my rec.audio.opinion newsgroup days was the thread detailing an ABX test between a Yahama receiver and some high-end amp (a Krell, I think). A self-proclaimed golden ear could not distinguish the two in the double-blind test. His room, his musical material and he still failed.

Hi.

Are you suggesting that all amps sound the same?

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #15 –
Quote
What I would like to know is where you think my first investment in my audio-system should be.

Green marker pen. 

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #16 –
Quote
Quote
Definitely speakers. I have a $700 CD player and a $350 receiver pushing $1600 worth of loudspeakers. I could instead have a $200 source component and receiver and I'd still have the pricey speakers. As long as the speakers don't provide an impedance problem, I don't think "audiophile" front-end equipment is necessary, unless you like labels.

One of the favorite memories of my rec.audio.opinion newsgroup days was the thread detailing an ABX test between a Yahama receiver and some high-end amp (a Krell, I think). A self-proclaimed golden ear could not distinguish the two in the double-blind test. His room, his musical material and he still failed.

Hi.

Are you suggesting that all amps sound the same?

Basically. Solid-state amps connected to speakers with normal impedance curves basically all sound the same. Tube amps or solid-state amps connected to esoteric loudspeakers (think electrostatics) will sound different.

That doesn't mean "buy the cheapest amp you can find", it means "before you replace your amp, try rearranging your room, adding room treatment, moving your loudspeakers and/or replacing your loudspeakers." These can provide far more satisfying gains in quality.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #17 –
Quote
Basically. Solid-state amps connected to speakers with normal impedance curves basically all sound the same. Tube amps or solid-state amps connected to esoteric loudspeakers (think electrostatics) will sound different.

We had a very expensive switching system in the audio shop I worked at that allowed you to switch between 10 amps, 8 or so sets of speakers etc.

It allowed us to a/b stuff for the customers.

We sold over the years NAD, Rotel, Sansui, Sony ES, Celestion, Boston Acoustics,PSB, and tons of stuff I can't even remember anymore.

The differences in the way the amps sounded was very easy to pick out most of the time. The top of the line Sony Esprit amps sounded very sharp and irritating compared to the NAD and Rotel stuff. Less impact at similar volumes. Lots of variability in the mid bass attacks. Low bass slam was easy to a/b between Sansui power and Nad.

The switcher was relay based, with short signal paths, gold plated contacts, banana plugs etc. Nice well thought out unit.

We switched inputs around to confirm we were actually hearing a difference.

Maybe you should check out a higher end audio shop that has a similar switcher.

I agree with you about some audiophiles though. Some of our best customers had more money than brains.

We used to hook speakers up out of phase and then listen to them comment on the "precise stereo imaging" of the system.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #18 –
Funny. I always thought most "audiophiles" that buy the really extreme products just do it to show off that they have a lot of money.

How did you calibrate the levels when switching between the different amps? I mean, if you play at different levels, it would be natural to hear different bass punch, "timbre" etc, because of the shape of the equal loudness curves.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #19 –
Thanks guy!
Now I know where to put my money.
Sadly you choose the most expensive part, speakers :-/

My Soundcard will have to go when I get a new computer anyway so I think that will be the first I replace after all.
I'm not shopping for new equipment just now.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #20 –
On the topic of danish HIFI stores, I'd like to recommend Tape Connection. They have a broad range of products, usually priced lower than other stores. For example, they have the lowest price on Sennheiser HD600, I've seen anywhere (in Denmark).

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #21 –
Quote
Funny. I always thought most "audiophiles" that buy the really extreme products just do it to show off that they have a lot of money.

How did you calibrate the levels when switching between the different amps? I mean, if you play at different levels, it would be natural to hear different bass punch, "timbre" etc, because of the shape of the equal loudness curves.

I guess some do. Lots od them thought more expensive meant better, which is really not true of audio equipment especially.

As for levels, tone controls were either defeated  or set to 0. Volume levels were easy to balance for obvious reasons.


PS  We never sold any of the really expensive stuff. Mostly we were trying to promote better quality stuff but affordable.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #22 –
I vote for the speakers too. But keep in mind that the space you are using the speakers and the installation (placement) is very very significant. Choose speakers that match your listening environment.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #23 –
Quote
Funny. I always thought most "audiophiles" that buy the really extreme products just do it to show off that they have a lot of money.

The following is not meant as a joke!

While listening to music, your mood and the images you see affects the sensation in no small terms.

Try closing your eyes and you will find the it a lot easier to concentrate on the music. Try listening to music after a bad argument with the gf/wife/boss/whatever. It does not sound good at all.

If you are serious about music, you must chose a system that will satisfy you desires. It is important that is looks good in your eyes. Your mood improves when you look at plesent things. Your mood deteriorates when you look at unpleasent things. You might even begin to stress about having spent money and time on a system you don't like.

Showing off is important too. I call this the WOW effect. Impressing other people with your system improves your mood. Getting people's pitty does not.

It is even possible to be so happy about your system, that you cannot hear the obvious defects.

What Should I Replace First?

Reply #24 –
Quote
It is even possible to be so happy about your system, that you cannot hear the obvious defects.

I can very well hear the obvious defect, but obviously, it's just a false feeling I have, because I've been too long used to a bad sound before. When I am used to the good new expensive gear I just bought, those ugly defects won't hurt my ears anymore