Multiformat 128 kbps Listening Test
Reply #701 – 2005-11-30 12:11:21
@Jaz - leave the condescension to those who know how to read a freekin' equation Could we please have proper tone... I got frustrasted because Jaz obviously just skimmed over my post and decided to confront me with the first thing that confused him, after several pages of me patiently trying to get you guys to grapple with the reality of what you have previously rejected for indestinct (lack of) reasoning, Im supposed to take Jaz's 'ahem'ing SUPPOSED nonsensical objections without bother. Maybe I should, but Im weak I too fail to see the point in the formulas you present. The point is to model the result of the bitrate targeting process mathematically, to make it easier for those with the means to do so, to conceptualise its nature. Ive been doing alot of mathematical modelling recently and am confident the model is analogous to the 2passes actual performance, it could be tweaked for example with further scaling to Demandrate by a function of target bitrate, but based on the axiom that the prepass discerns a global vbr adjustment its linearity and thus the conclusion I drew from it are secure. Its true the mathematical rendering of the result shouldnt add anything, but it might help someone with a chance to understand the performance of the process to focus mathematically on the Object in contention. Adding engineering units to the formulas might help you to see what I mean: phrase_Demandrate kbps = phrase_Bitrate kbps / target_Bitrate kbps phrase_Bitrate kbps = phrase_Demandrate kbps * target_Bitrate kbps Now according to my old math book: kbps / kbps = factor without unit kbps * kbps = kbps² It's like apples and pears, you are not supposed to compare them. I noticed the possible confusion with units too, but decided to leave the names as they where, so I could waste peoples time who were only reading my posts to find fault rather than reason, to dismiss rather than correct, to fuzz the subject rather than clarify... with a little wild goose chase DemandRate never claimed to be same units as Bitrate, it is bitrate/bitrate, (phrase_Demandrate=phrase_Bitrate/target_Bitrate) Its just a variable name, what the name refers to is defined mathematically and in planest possible english I could muster, for your comprehension of my post, if that is your goal.Nothing new here. Agreed just another social critique, skillful but still completely missing the point. People, this is supposed to be an Objective forum no? You've collectively rejected the 2pass method for wma without valid reason, and applied no scrutiny at all to Neros choice of ABR encoding and every attempt ive made to help you come to terms with these things has been met with....windbush....silence.... irrelevant nit-picking or insubstantial redirections. I dont know what else I can say now. HA / HiFiWigWam whats the difference here ? I can guess the mob response 'oh hes getting all uppity now, the devs are saying nothing he must be wrong, I can get him with this point he slipped up on even though I havent a clue about most of what he wrote, guru said this, ff123 said that, JohnV's a Nero Engineer he cant be mistaken.' Want to knock me down a peg or two? Lets have more posts criticising my manner then. Want to fatigue the arguement and carry on regardless when its knackered? More posts finding faults -real or half imagined. I suggest stop concentrating on demoting the sole detractor, and put your talents to figuring the subject out yourselves and then explaining your understanding. How much counter explaination has there been?? If Nero go on ahead with submitting their ABR without admitting its acute differences from in-situ encoding (it could hardly be more different - that should not be hard to see, if you cant see it, this is not your field of expertese and you can forget about understanding how wma's 2pass targeting can resolve its own differences*)... ....Ill be laughing like a man condemned. *at least it is VBR! If my model is wrong, its individual bitrate choices can deviate slightly from in-situ encode. Neros ABR bitrate distribution bears very little relation to the in-situ other than the Average -that is an easily confirmable fact dudes. freekin' peace,