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Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #50
Did the --athaa-sensitivity switch disapear?
LAME 3.97b1 doesn't start with this switch, whereas the 3.97a12 using the same commandline is working perfectly. Is it intended?

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #51
Quote
Always a difficult one, this, as it does very much depend upon the material used. However, if one can generalise, I think that it should be revised as follows:
Code: [Select]
Quality Setting                   Indicated Bitrate
 10  (V9)                                   64
 20  (V8)                                   92
 30  (V7)                                  112
 40  (V6)                                  128
 50  (V5)                                  140
 60  (V4)                                  160
 70  (V3)                                  176
 80  (V2)                                  200
 90  (V1)                                  224
 100 (V0)                                  240

Anyone else have a view on this?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=327625"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm building a complete table based on a representative [of my own collection] set of 150 classical files (and only classical!). My computer is still busy; I think I will post the result tomorrow.

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #52
Quote
Did the --athaa-sensitivity switch disapear?
LAME 3.97b1 doesn't start with this switch, whereas the 3.97a12 using the same commandline is working perfectly. Is it intended?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=328032"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the ath switches are available in alpha builds for developing and tuning. If you think you need the sensitivity switch to undo/tune presets, then the presets should be changed.

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #53
Experimental switches are also available when binary is compiled in debug mode.

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #54
In the past, with v3.96.1, the athaa-sensitivity 1 setting showed a great improvement with certain passages reducing ringing/warblig problems with very limited bitrate increase (at least for certain genres).
I didn't test latest 3.97 alhpa but according to guruboolez intensive testing, those problems are reduced to acceptable levels now. So, i suppose, he himself would not recommend using athaa switches with the new 3.97 version. If not and if 3.97a12 outputs bit identical results with 3.97b1 i can eventually test some samples.
WavPack 4.3 -mfx5
LAME 3.97 -V5 --vbr-new --athaa-sensitivity 1

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #55
Quote
Quote
Did the --athaa-sensitivity switch disapear?
LAME 3.97b1 doesn't start with this switch, whereas the 3.97a12 using the same commandline is working perfectly. Is it intended?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=328032"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the ath switches are available in alpha builds for developing and tuning. If you think you need the sensitivity switch to undo/tune presets, then the presets should be changed.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=328035"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The quality impact of --athaa-sensitivity 1 (with -V5) is variable. I noticed difference in bitrate up to 20 kbps. Difference in quality is very important too - especially after MP3gain process (useful for portable IMO).
For me, it's a pity that this switch isn't available anymore. 

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #56
is this switch only useful with -V5 preset, and maybe below?
would you always use it in combination with -V5 (saw some recommendation elsewhere)?

if not always, what kind of samples are affected?

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #57
Quote
The quality impact of --athaa-sensitivity 1 (with -V5) is variable. I noticed difference in bitrate up to 20 kbps. Difference in quality is very important too - especially after MP3gain process (useful for portable IMO).
For me, it's a pity that this switch isn't available anymore.

I'd suggest --athlower or --scale in such cases.

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #58
Please let me repeat AndyMutz's question:

Quote
when using --vbr-new the -q switch produces exact same results, no matter if i use q0,q1,q2,q3 or q4. is that intended?


Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks for your help!

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #59
Quote
is this switch only useful with -V5 preset, and maybe below?
would you always use it in combination with -V5 (saw some recommendation elsewhere)?

if not always, what kind of samples are affected?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=328052"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I haven't tried the effect of the switch with VBR mode below -V5.
I always add this command to all -V5 encodings. On average the bitrate is increased by 6 kbps IIRC.
The impact is really audible on low volume sample/part of the sample. It becomes dramatic after MP3gain with such samples. But the --ahtaa-sensitivity 1 tool can't fully solve the extreme ringing issues occuring with very quiet samples. The quality gain is nevertheless important, and I would rather make --athaa-sensitivity 1 the default mode if you really want to remove this tool from the public version of LAME.



P.S. I recently made some RG statistics with a part of my classical library (11000 files were involved). ~1050 files had a track gain > +10 dB! On such tracks, there's serious ATH issues with LAME VBR with -V5. -V4 is by default much better.

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #60
I can speak only for 3.96.1 and early 3.97 alphas, i have to test the lastest version to be sure. --athaa-sensitivity 1 is useful with low/mid bitrate VBR settings. With -V5 the quality impact with some quite tracks in impressive but not resolutive with extreme samples. I remember i did tests even at -V4 and the same switch proved to be useful to reduce ringing. With -V3 and below i believe that the quality gain is trascurable. That said, i never mp3gained my encodings for these tests but i can't exclude that with very high corrections (or high volume listening) artifacts could arise even with others VBR settings.

@robert: if you search for athaa sensitivity in the forums, you'll find some tests and samples affected but i believe that these cases are not so unusual, expecially with certain genres.

@gabriel: --athaa-sensitivity corrects well some issues with limitate bitrate increase. --athlower will certainly help in the same cases but at what "price" ? I admit i never tested it.
WavPack 4.3 -mfx5
LAME 3.97 -V5 --vbr-new --athaa-sensitivity 1

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #61
As promised, the bitrate table for each VBR -V mode and for both "default" & "new" VBR algorithms.
It's based on 150 classical tracks. Bitrate bloat due to sb21 are not really common; as a consequence, the average bitrate I obtained for the highest profiles is probably lower than what people encoding dynamically compressed music would get.

[span style=\'font-size:21pt;line-height:100%\']VBR [OLD][/b][/u][/span]

Code: [Select]
V0	V1	V2	V3	V4	V5	V6	V7	V8	V9

239,0 229,8 207,1 195,2 175,8 134,7 112,6 92,4 74,5 52,5
253,4 233,9 206,0 169,4 153,4 133,4 119,4 99,7 83,2 57,8
269,3 252,5 225,0 196,8 176,8 150,4 137,5 122,6 97,6 69,4
262,4 243,8 215,4 177,1 161,4 142,9 130,7 112,5 93,2 68,4
218,9 201,3 177,9 156,4 140,4 108,3 93,5 79,6 67,1 46,4
174,0 166,8 145,5 133,9 115,3 82,1 69,0 55,1 47,2 31,0
224,9 213,3 191,8 182,7 164,9 129,8 109,2 89,8 73,7 52,7
222,0 211,1 190,4 180,2 164,1 131,8 105,7 81,2 63,9 42,9
216,4 205,3 184,0 174,3 153,4 111,7 94,4 76,7 61,7 40,8
228,4 211,4 187,0 158,1 142,2 119,2 95,5 71,2 52,4 31,9
230,5 220,4 199,0 188,4 167,6 130,5 107,8 87,7 72,0 50,6
220,6 211,8 191,1 177,3 153,8 109,5 90,3 71,1 57,7 38,1
244,9 222,2 196,9 180,9 161,4 127,2 109,4 94,2 81,8 61,9
224,5 213,0 192,3 182,9 163,7 127,6 106,5 86,4 70,4 50,2
220,3 200,3 176,7 165,0 146,7 116,2 98,1 80,1 65,2 45,9
244,4 228,8 204,5 182,5 166,5 139,7 120,2 98,7 79,3 49,8
212,4 201,5 179,6 167,7 148,4 110,6 91,9 73,3 58,1 38,1
216,5 201,8 179,9 170,5 154,1 126,6 106,1 85,1 68,9 48,1
225,9 216,7 195,9 185,9 166,8 131,7 110,4 89,7 72,6 50,6
226,8 217,7 195,9 186,2 168,9 131,5 107,7 85,2 68,9 49,0
232,3 221,3 199,2 187,0 170,6 140,2 118,6 98,3 80,7 57,2
239,2 224,7 201,7 184,6 167,1 137,5 114,9 93,0 73,8 50,6
218,7 209,0 186,8 173,4 154,3 117,3 98,8 83,0 68,9 50,0
209,6 198,2 175,1 161,3 140,1 104,5 88,3 71,3 59,1 40,6
212,4 204,4 184,5 171,3 145,1 91,3 72,9 56,1 42,9 23,3
221,2 211,5 190,0 178,7 158,0 115,1 93,9 75,4 61,3 42,1
230,5 217,4 195,5 187,4 172,5 143,8 119,5 97,3 78,4 55,0
226,5 214,9 193,2 179,2 156,6 117,5 98,8 78,6 64,8 44,0
218,6 208,5 186,5 172,7 151,8 111,9 92,5 72,3 57,7 38,8
238,6 225,2 200,9 184,4 167,5 140,8 122,7 103,5 86,9 64,2
237,2 220,0 195,6 181,7 160,4 124,2 103,2 84,3 69,9 50,7
230,0 215,9 193,0 179,2 157,1 117,2 97,9 77,9 63,4 43,4
242,2 227,7 202,7 187,6 169,1 134,4 115,0 97,8 81,6 60,2
232,2 209,3 182,7 164,7 145,8 113,3 96,2 78,3 65,9 45,5
238,8 226,7 204,3 193,3 176,3 141,9 117,4 95,6 76,4 52,9
227,2 213,1 189,2 163,9 150,0 132,2 122,4 106,0 89,5 66,1
228,5 216,7 194,6 184,5 168,2 140,9 121,2 100,7 85,7 63,6
228,1 208,3 184,1 173,7 155,9 128,3 112,6 93,3 81,8 61,0
211,6 202,9 182,0 170,5 153,8 118,9 96,0 76,9 62,2 39,4
214,4 204,4 183,1 172,4 156,0 128,8 114,2 93,6 79,2 53,8
225,9 212,3 188,9 174,7 160,2 140,3 126,9 109,5 92,2 69,5
216,4 207,1 185,6 173,6 154,7 120,5 102,2 81,4 67,6 48,1
220,6 210,9 190,2 180,0 160,4 123,7 103,1 82,5 66,8 46,0
224,8 213,5 191,4 179,1 157,9 118,2 97,9 78,5 63,5 42,6
224,7 208,0 184,5 170,9 150,9 116,9 98,3 80,0 65,9 46,3
209,2 199,5 180,0 173,1 157,6 135,1 113,8 91,9 77,8 56,3
207,9 198,5 179,4 169,4 153,5 126,8 109,7 89,9 76,0 54,6
228,9 216,7 194,0 181,9 164,2 135,2 116,1 96,3 80,9 58,1
222,3 204,5 180,5 167,4 150,1 108,8 84,8 65,0 50,4 28,7
237,3 220,7 195,0 172,5 157,1 138,5 126,2 107,2 90,7 64,8
226,2 214,7 192,3 179,3 161,0 127,4 110,5 91,2 76,5 55,4
229,7 218,8 196,9 187,2 169,5 137,8 117,5 98,6 82,6 61,6
228,8 218,1 196,5 186,7 169,0 138,1 117,9 97,3 80,7 57,9
229,2 215,1 192,1 183,4 166,6 134,8 115,8 97,8 81,4 59,7
259,4 240,7 211,0 184,6 169,3 148,2 135,5 117,6 99,2 73,7
229,4 217,8 196,1 187,9 171,0 142,3 121,7 102,5 85,6 61,3
228,5 215,1 191,8 181,9 166,5 144,5 126,6 107,6 91,4 66,4
236,5 218,3 192,3 176,7 160,3 137,6 121,0 102,5 86,9 63,0
233,3 214,6 190,2 179,2 163,0 139,3 120,4 102,0 86,1 64,4
232,1 220,9 198,9 189,9 173,3 141,7 120,0 99,4 81,4 58,6
233,6 213,8 187,6 169,6 154,1 132,2 117,1 98,5 81,7 57,4
239,5 221,2 195,1 170,5 154,4 131,0 115,7 98,9 82,9 59,2
242,9 229,8 205,0 187,1 171,2 148,2 131,9 114,6 98,6 71,8
220,5 209,1 187,5 178,7 162,9 140,2 124,8 105,7 89,3 63,2
241,3 223,1 196,1 179,0 164,2 142,9 126,3 108,7 92,6 67,2
200,8 170,6 143,3 131,0 116,6 95,2 84,6 66,0 53,5 35,8
219,2 204,1 181,8 170,9 151,2 113,0 94,2 76,6 61,3 41,0
219,5 210,6 189,9 177,9 156,5 116,6 96,8 76,0 60,0 39,6
223,8 208,9 186,3 175,7 156,1 122,8 106,2 85,6 70,9 50,8
212,3 201,1 180,2 171,7 154,9 125,1 105,0 83,2 65,8 43,6
203,1 193,1 173,0 163,2 143,7 104,4 87,3 68,5 56,2 37,7
216,5 206,3 186,0 179,0 163,4 140,0 120,1 97,1 79,4 57,4
226,0 211,3 188,3 177,0 157,5 123,1 102,8 83,1 67,5 48,2
217,4 204,0 182,9 173,9 155,6 116,7 95,7 73,7 58,5 38,4
249,4 218,6 184,9 149,5 133,7 113,1 98,0 79,0 63,6 43,7
225,8 211,6 185,6 161,6 145,7 124,3 110,8 90,4 79,6 57,3
223,6 209,2 183,1 159,4 143,6 125,4 116,3 96,7 83,7 61,3
245,2 226,4 198,2 161,9 146,4 128,3 117,7 97,7 81,3 58,3
255,2 240,0 212,8 168,6 153,8 135,0 125,8 107,5 89,3 65,4
226,4 215,6 192,4 178,5 161,7 136,7 122,3 99,6 81,2 55,1
208,8 197,4 175,0 158,6 144,1 124,0 112,9 91,6 79,3 58,5
237,3 222,0 198,7 189,8 172,9 142,4 122,3 102,0 83,9 60,1
215,6 204,8 184,8 174,1 152,3 117,7 94,8 75,2 60,2 35,1
228,6 218,6 195,8 181,7 161,3 122,2 102,6 80,9 64,5 44,4
260,0 248,1 222,3 206,2 187,0 151,9 123,4 99,7 80,2 57,9
211,1 197,9 177,1 166,7 148,3 117,4 100,9 78,9 63,7 37,7
219,3 208,5 187,3 177,7 160,4 131,0 112,1 91,2 74,6 49,1
237,5 227,4 205,1 193,3 173,2 131,4 107,9 88,1 71,2 50,3
228,2 214,5 189,6 179,7 161,3 113,5 96,8 79,9 67,5 49,9
233,2 211,7 187,0 174,4 155,1 118,1 89,1 66,2 52,7 35,8
194,3 186,9 166,2 154,7 136,5 98,2 82,3 65,2 54,4 37,8
205,3 196,6 174,4 162,0 141,8 96,8 79,8 63,8 53,7 37,1
200,7 192,0 171,0 160,3 145,4 108,2 89,4 71,9 60,1 44,0
221,0 212,1 189,5 174,1 152,5 108,3 87,9 69,4 56,3 38,3
178,9 169,8 149,3 137,6 117,5 81,1 68,7 53,7 45,9 29,1
178,9 169,8 149,3 137,6 117,5 81,1 68,7 53,7 45,9 29,1
208,2 192,8 170,7 158,7 140,9 112,1 96,0 77,9 64,8 45,5
221,4 203,4 180,1 167,4 148,5 112,0 93,6 75,3 59,9 39,2
224,3 214,9 193,9 186,2 169,5 139,1 119,7 96,9 77,5 52,3
229,3 210,5 187,1 178,3 161,7 141,7 127,5 98,3 88,5 68,9
216,1 207,9 187,2 177,3 161,0 123,8 105,6 86,6 70,7 47,8
224,8 206,5 184,1 174,8 158,0 126,1 103,8 83,7 67,7 47,3
241,7 226,2 205,2 195,3 177,6 143,0 116,0 92,6 72,3 52,0
227,8 215,7 192,1 176,9 155,3 111,3 88,8 70,6 57,2 39,4
217,9 207,5 187,0 179,1 164,3 142,6 123,7 100,0 75,3 50,0
220,4 203,4 180,0 167,2 150,4 121,8 95,5 72,5 54,8 34,0
221,3 201,9 178,2 166,5 145,9 111,8 93,0 72,7 57,1 36,3
224,8 211,5 191,2 182,0 161,5 127,1 105,9 85,8 68,5 45,9
193,9 182,1 161,5 155,1 140,6 120,3 105,1 87,6 76,6 55,0
196,4 183,8 162,1 150,5 133,0 94,9 76,2 57,0 44,1 26,2
209,6 198,1 176,9 166,8 148,0 107,6 84,6 64,5 50,2 32,3
215,1 203,7 181,9 170,3 152,5 112,2 88,7 69,3 53,4 33,3
226,6 216,1 193,7 182,5 164,0 127,2 106,0 85,9 69,3 48,9
215,2 202,9 180,4 168,3 148,4 111,3 92,4 72,5 56,4 35,7
218,5 206,7 184,9 175,7 159,3 135,9 120,3 99,3 83,8 57,3
218,6 205,8 184,7 175,4 159,1 131,3 111,5 87,0 66,0 40,7
222,8 210,6 188,9 179,5 163,2 135,7 116,4 96,2 80,2 57,5
184,8 169,7 147,4 135,3 117,7 89,0 75,5 57,8 48,5 32,3
186,9 173,3 150,5 135,9 114,0 75,9 61,9 48,6 40,2 25,0
194,8 184,4 161,3 148,9 130,9 97,5 81,5 63,2 52,0 35,7
227,7 217,7 197,0 187,4 169,6 138,3 116,8 96,2 79,2 54,3
243,6 231,4 208,1 197,0 178,6 142,0 119,8 98,8 79,7 56,5
172,9 166,7 145,0 134,5 113,0 71,5 56,5 41,3 32,9 18,9
249,3 231,4 202,9 176,0 160,4 137,5 126,3 110,6 93,5 69,5
230,7 220,2 198,6 188,4 170,4 135,7 113,7 93,2 74,8 52,2
233,1 221,5 199,7 192,2 177,2 153,0 131,9 113,4 95,5 69,4
247,2 232,5 209,3 198,2 181,9 142,4 119,7 97,6 77,3 54,8
217,4 205,5 183,7 170,2 147,5 101,7 83,3 65,4 52,0 32,5
223,0 204,1 179,6 169,5 153,3 129,0 111,5 91,0 75,1 53,2
221,0 208,1 185,5 176,1 159,7 135,3 114,6 93,7 78,5 55,1
231,8 214,3 190,3 176,3 155,8 119,7 100,4 81,1 66,0 45,7
232,3 221,8 200,3 189,6 171,5 136,6 115,9 92,0 76,0 53,4
235,9 222,0 199,4 188,4 171,9 143,3 123,3 103,6 86,3 62,0
246,5 235,1 211,7 200,4 183,0 146,3 125,0 103,8 84,0 61,7
241,4 228,6 202,0 190,5 170,3 134,3 114,5 95,6 78,8 52,1
231,5 219,9 197,4 183,7 161,2 123,0 103,1 82,3 68,3 47,8
230,8 216,6 193,7 179,2 159,1 109,8 79,8 61,0 48,4 29,7
225,8 215,7 194,7 184,0 166,3 136,2 116,5 95,9 79,4 55,0
226,4 207,7 184,2 173,2 158,0 124,6 102,2 79,7 62,8 42,7
230,7 216,7 193,7 180,5 163,0 131,1 112,0 93,9 77,1 52,9
231,5 209,8 183,5 163,7 148,5 125,6 110,9 93,1 78,3 55,7
219,3 207,8 185,6 176,0 158,5 123,0 100,8 81,4 64,6 42,7
226,2 212,8 190,4 178,7 158,3 121,4 101,4 78,6 63,5 43,8
237,4 220,3 194,2 164,9 148,8 129,9 119,8 101,5 86,3 61,7
222,2 207,8 185,8 173,6 158,7 130,2 104,8 77,8 56,8 34,9
218,8 201,9 179,3 167,6 149,9 113,7 96,2 76,1 62,8 43,2
234,2 216,1 190,7 176,0 159,1 133,4 115,9 97,0 82,0 59,7
228,2 214,6 191,2 177,4 156,1 116,5 96,4 76,9 61,1 40,7
229,7 217,1 194,5 185,1 168,7 142,8 122,2 103,0 87,5 62,9
227,3 216,1 194,5 182,4 163,7 130,4 110,4 89,2 73,4 51,5



[span style=\'font-size:21pt;line-height:100%\']VBR [NEW][/b][/u][/span]

Code: [Select]
V0	V1	V2	V3	V4	V5	V6	V7	V8	V9

234,3 221,8 194,6 181,7 167,0 129,5 109,0 85,3 69,5 48,6
253,6 240,6 210,8 171,6 160,0 140,5 125,2 103,4 86,0 56,4
266,8 258,7 230,3 200,7 184,4 157,5 143,4 125,7 99,4 67,7
261,3 249,5 217,7 178,0 166,7 148,3 134,6 112,8 94,3 69,2
216,5 202,1 175,7 153,5 140,5 108,6 93,1 77,4 65,9 44,1
190,0 165,1 135,1 119,5 106,2 78,3 66,0 51,8 45,0 26,2
218,3 207,4 181,9 173,1 159,6 127,1 107,4 85,0 70,1 49,4
220,2 211,6 186,9 178,1 166,2 133,2 106,3 76,4 60,6 37,9
218,9 204,1 178,0 167,4 150,9 111,1 93,4 72,6 57,9 36,5
229,2 216,9 188,6 158,9 147,3 123,6 98,4 67,8 49,4 25,6
221,6 213,5 188,7 177,8 161,5 127,8 106,0 83,0 68,5 47,2
215,7 206,1 180,7 165,4 147,2 107,2 89,1 66,9 54,1 33,2
245,4 220,7 191,4 175,1 159,8 127,6 109,9 93,1 81,2 60,1
214,4 205,6 181,2 171,4 156,9 123,9 104,4 81,2 66,6 46,8
213,5 195,3 167,6 156,1 141,9 113,3 96,0 74,9 60,7 42,3
242,8 228,9 201,5 182,8 171,2 144,6 123,7 98,3 76,3 43,2
212,2 196,7 169,5 156,8 142,0 108,2 90,6 68,2 53,9 33,8
216,8 198,5 172,6 164,4 152,8 125,0 104,5 79,9 64,7 44,6
219,0 209,8 184,9 174,8 160,5 128,3 107,9 83,1 67,3 47,2
220,3 206,8 180,3 169,8 157,4 124,9 104,0 77,5 64,1 45,9
225,1 219,0 193,7 182,0 169,8 140,1 118,8 94,7 78,0 54,3
231,5 222,3 195,9 179,2 166,0 137,6 115,2 88,3 70,0 46,1
218,7 201,8 173,7 159,1 145,1 113,4 97,3 78,9 65,7 45,7
214,3 195,8 167,0 150,7 134,2 102,3 87,0 68,0 56,8 36,7
211,9 203,4 178,5 163,6 142,1 91,5 72,4 52,7 38,1 18,3
217,8 207,0 181,3 169,4 152,6 112,6 93,1 71,5 58,6 38,2
225,7 213,2 187,9 181,6 171,1 142,0 117,4 90,8 73,9 52,2
218,7 207,6 182,2 166,3 149,5 115,1 97,3 75,0 61,4 39,9
216,3 202,9 175,8 161,3 145,4 109,2 90,5 67,1 53,5 34,9
234,1 221,9 194,4 178,2 166,2 141,1 123,3 102,4 86,5 63,5
228,0 212,4 184,5 170,2 153,7 120,7 100,9 79,8 66,6 47,1
223,7 211,4 184,9 170,7 153,0 115,9 97,4 74,4 60,4 39,6
236,2 220,2 191,3 175,7 162,1 130,8 113,2 93,9 79,2 57,7
231,5 207,5 176,9 158,6 143,7 112,3 95,4 75,7 64,3 42,7
233,7 223,1 196,9 186,8 174,2 140,3 116,0 90,2 72,7 50,0
223,1 217,7 191,2 166,2 156,4 139,8 129,0 111,5 94,2 67,3
222,5 211,7 186,1 176,7 165,2 139,3 120,6 98,8 85,0 62,7
223,1 204,8 177,0 166,9 154,0 127,7 112,1 91,9 80,6 59,9
214,0 200,8 174,5 162,9 150,6 119,1 96,7 73,0 58,5 32,9
213,5 206,0 181,2 171,3 159,6 134,0 118,2 94,6 78,3 49,3
225,0 213,5 186,6 173,3 163,1 144,1 130,3 111,3 94,4 70,6
212,9 201,3 175,3 163,5 149,4 118,8 101,8 78,0 64,8 44,4
216,6 207,3 182,5 172,2 157,0 123,1 103,1 78,9 63,5 41,7
219,3 209,7 183,7 171,0 154,4 117,8 98,0 75,0 60,2 37,4
218,2 198,5 170,6 156,6 141,5 111,4 94,4 74,0 61,3 43,2
205,6 197,9 174,7 169,8 159,3 137,2 115,1 90,1 75,0 53,8
200,8 196,0 173,1 164,2 152,5 126,4 110,0 88,2 74,1 51,6
224,7 214,0 187,7 176,4 163,4 136,0 117,4 95,3 79,8 56,1
227,3 207,8 179,9 167,7 154,3 111,4 85,8 62,0 46,6 21,7
238,3 224,5 194,6 173,1 162,7 145,0 131,6 109,4 93,0 64,3
225,6 213,5 186,9 173,8 160,1 129,3 112,2 90,0 74,9 51,9
226,0 213,4 187,1 177,6 164,7 136,1 117,3 95,2 79,7 58,5
222,8 212,9 187,6 178,3 165,6 137,0 117,8 93,9 77,7 54,7
220,4 206,4 180,2 171,7 159,7 131,4 113,6 93,6 78,0 56,8
258,9 243,8 210,8 184,5 173,6 153,5 140,7 121,4 102,9 75,7
224,0 213,1 187,9 180,7 168,4 142,1 121,6 99,3 82,8 58,3
224,9 212,8 185,8 177,1 166,6 145,8 127,3 105,4 89,4 65,3
237,6 219,6 189,4 174,4 162,5 141,1 124,0 102,3 86,5 61,2
233,9 212,2 183,4 173,9 162,2 139,3 119,9 98,5 83,4 62,8
225,5 213,6 188,0 179,6 167,9 139,0 117,7 93,9 77,1 56,1
234,7 216,2 186,4 169,1 157,8 136,4 120,5 98,9 81,9 55,5
240,0 225,5 195,3 171,7 159,9 137,0 120,4 101,8 85,2 58,1
238,9 228,5 200,6 182,8 171,4 150,0 133,9 115,2 99,6 72,3
220,8 210,1 184,5 177,0 166,2 144,9 128,7 106,3 88,9 60,7
245,6 224,8 192,9 176,5 166,1 145,8 129,3 108,2 93,0 66,0
200,8 170,5 138,7 128,1 117,1 95,2 84,5 63,3 50,2 31,6
216,2 200,1 173,4 161,6 145,8 110,2 92,2 71,4 56,9 36,2
214,6 205,9 181,0 168,4 151,7 115,0 95,8 71,5 56,1 35,4
216,1 205,8 180,1 169,9 154,5 122,8 106,5 82,9 68,2 46,7
211,2 202,7 178,0 170,8 157,9 128,0 106,7 79,7 62,0 38,8
202,6 191,1 166,6 156,1 140,7 103,6 86,5 65,3 53,5 33,2
210,7 203,3 179,4 174,0 163,0 139,8 118,9 92,4 75,9 55,0
220,9 207,9 180,8 169,8 154,5 121,7 101,7 78,6 64,1 44,5
215,9 202,6 177,7 169,4 154,6 116,7 95,8 69,7 55,1 34,1
254,5 221,4 183,9 149,0 137,3 116,3 100,3 78,0 62,0 39,4
223,8 213,4 185,3 161,9 150,0 128,8 114,5 92,3 80,6 55,0
219,6 212,5 184,9 161,5 149,7 131,3 121,2 100,4 86,5 60,7
237,6 229,8 202,2 164,7 153,3 134,7 122,8 102,4 85,5 59,1
244,3 244,5 215,9 170,4 159,9 142,2 132,2 113,0 94,5 67,6
222,4 217,9 192,6 179,3 166,8 142,1 126,7 100,0 82,4 52,5
204,3 199,2 174,5 158,7 147,7 127,8 116,0 93,1 80,5 57,4
227,2 214,7 188,9 180,8 168,6 140,0 120,0 96,4 79,6 56,0
214,5 208,4 184,1 173,3 154,2 118,8 95,4 71,6 55,6 27,8
223,3 207,8 180,2 164,8 150,5 115,2 97,4 72,9 58,8 40,2
242,3 231,9 204,3 185,5 171,3 138,7 113,6 86,0 71,1 55,2
211,1 200,6 175,3 165,6 150,6 119,6 102,7 76,5 59,9 31,5
213,8 206,1 181,5 173,0 160,4 132,0 112,2 86,8 69,7 44,8
226,0 216,6 190,3 177,7 162,6 126,1 104,0 80,6 65,3 46,6
230,2 201,4 170,4 158,6 145,6 105,2 91,1 72,6 62,9 46,0
227,5 209,6 181,8 169,7 154,8 116,0 86,6 59,5 48,5 32,0
201,6 177,5 150,3 136,6 123,3 91,5 78,1 59,8 50,7 34,0
214,6 189,9 161,4 146,0 130,3 91,4 75,0 58,1 49,9 32,9
208,1 178,7 151,7 140,5 130,3 100,2 84,6 65,1 55,3 40,8
219,6 204,0 175,8 159,1 142,3 103,4 85,1 64,1 52,3 34,2
188,9 168,5 141,7 126,9 110,8 78,9 67,2 51,0 43,8 23,9
188,9 168,5 141,7 126,9 110,8 78,9 67,2 51,0 43,8 23,9
199,4 184,8 159,2 145,6 133,3 108,1 93,3 73,5 61,4 42,0
221,6 201,4 173,7 160,8 145,7 112,0 93,9 71,8 56,4 34,1
215,9 210,0 185,7 178,4 166,6 138,1 119,6 92,2 72,9 47,6
218,1 204,8 178,3 171,2 159,2 139,7 124,5 99,4 90,2 70,0
218,5 202,2 177,0 166,3 154,4 121,9 104,9 82,6 66,5 41,3
217,6 200,6 174,3 165,1 152,6 121,8 99,9 76,9 62,9 44,3
231,1 218,3 192,5 181,1 168,2 136,7 111,7 83,3 66,2 48,5
218,3 206,3 177,2 161,8 144,9 106,5 86,1 64,8 52,9 35,3
217,1 208,3 184,2 178,7 168,9 145,7 124,6 93,6 69,2 45,2
220,2 206,7 179,6 167,6 154,9 125,2 97,9 68,1 51,4 28,1
217,8 202,0 174,7 163,2 145,9 111,9 93,1 68,5 52,7 31,3
218,6 209,8 185,3 175,3 157,9 125,8 105,4 80,7 64,0 40,3
194,4 181,4 157,3 152,5 142,2 122,3 106,2 88,9 74,3 53,5
205,2 184,9 156,9 143,4 129,2 93,0 74,2 52,0 40,1 21,3
208,3 197,7 171,9 161,7 146,7 107,0 83,4 58,9 46,6 27,3
212,4 202,7 176,7 164,8 151,1 111,2 87,8 64,6 49,2 28,2
220,3 206,7 180,2 168,5 154,8 121,7 102,0 78,5 63,8 45,3
213,9 201,5 174,0 161,5 145,9 111,2 92,6 68,1 52,5 31,1
218,1 207,9 182,2 174,1 162,6 140,0 123,4 99,3 82,6 53,8
216,4 207,9 182,9 175,4 163,6 134,5 113,6 82,6 61,1 35,2
220,0 208,2 182,4 173,8 162,1 136,6 117,4 93,8 77,7 54,5
194,1 169,3 140,4 126,4 113,0 86,4 73,4 54,1 45,9 27,5
202,3 176,9 146,4 127,3 109,7 73,9 60,3 45,5 38,3 18,9
206,6 182,3 152,6 138,1 124,9 93,9 78,8 58,5 48,7 31,9
220,1 212,4 188,1 179,1 166,1 137,4 116,2 92,2 75,1 50,5
228,8 220,2 194,7 183,5 169,8 135,8 115,4 91,3 74,2 53,0
192,5 172,1 141,4 124,6 107,4 70,3 55,4 38,1 32,3 12,8
250,2 235,3 202,7 175,2 163,9 142,4 130,6 113,9 96,5 70,1
220,3 212,8 188,7 178,5 164,9 132,0 110,3 86,3 69,5 48,3
228,3 217,3 191,8 185,7 175,5 153,0 131,6 110,0 92,2 67,0
236,0 225,4 199,8 189,7 177,6 137,1 115,7 90,1 71,9 51,5
220,2 204,6 178,6 163,2 144,3 101,0 82,8 61,7 48,8 27,0
219,7 201,5 173,3 164,7 153,0 128,7 111,2 87,3 71,4 49,2
219,7 207,0 180,7 172,9 160,9 137,3 115,9 91,8 75,7 51,9
222,7 206,4 178,6 164,0 147,9 115,0 97,2 75,0 60,9 41,8
224,7 216,7 191,8 180,9 167,3 134,1 114,2 87,7 73,1 49,0
228,3 215,6 189,2 178,7 166,6 139,3 119,6 97,7 82,1 60,1
232,2 223,7 198,4 187,0 174,3 139,0 119,6 94,4 78,4 59,4
236,7 219,7 189,2 176,6 162,2 129,6 111,5 87,9 71,7 47,4
226,0 215,5 189,2 172,8 154,8 120,6 102,6 79,6 65,2 43,5
225,4 214,0 187,0 172,4 157,1 109,3 78,6 55,7 44,5 24,3
222,0 213,0 188,0 177,9 165,0 137,3 117,7 93,4 76,7 51,0
225,3 207,0 180,0 170,5 159,1 125,3 102,6 75,3 59,2 38,3
229,1 217,6 190,8 178,0 164,2 132,6 113,1 91,7 74,7 48,9
227,5 207,8 178,0 158,2 147,0 125,2 109,5 90,7 76,5 54,1
216,1 206,7 180,4 171,0 157,7 123,4 101,0 77,3 60,5 37,7
218,3 207,6 181,4 169,0 153,0 118,9 100,0 73,7 59,3 40,0
236,0 223,9 195,8 166,2 155,0 136,3 124,8 104,6 88,6 60,6
222,2 210,0 184,1 173,2 162,9 133,7 107,1 72,2 51,9 29,7
219,1 199,4 172,5 160,8 147,2 113,2 96,2 73,5 60,4 38,4
231,7 213,9 184,6 170,9 158,4 134,4 117,0 96,0 80,7 57,4
219,2 207,5 180,1 164,9 148,7 112,9 94,1 70,6 55,7 36,3
221,8 212,6 186,9 178,6 166,8 142,5 122,0 100,6 85,1 60,1
221,9 210,4 184,7 172,7 159,0 128,7 109,8 85,5 69,9 48,0

The bitrate curves look like this:





Each curve correspond to a -Vx mode.


To sum up:

Code: [Select]
VBR NEW			
AVERAGE MIN MAX
V0 221,89 188,90 266,80
V1 208,40 165,10 258,70
V2 181,46 135,10 230,30
V3 167,69 119,50 200,70
V4 154,21 106,20 184,40
V5 124,25 70,30 157,50
V6 105,81 55,40 143,40
V7 83,17 38,10 125,70
V8 68,29 32,30 102,90
V9 46,03 12,80 75,70
Code: [Select]
VBR OLD			
AVERAGE MIN MAX
V0 224,67 172,90 269,30
V1 211,18 166,70 252,50
V2 188,23 143,30 225,00
V3 174,60 131,00 206,20
V4 156,66 113,00 187,00
V5 124,79 71,50 153,00
V6 106,08 56,50 137,50
V7 80,46 41,30 122,60
V8 71,00 32,90 99,20
V9 49,45 18,90 73,10

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #62
Quote
To sum up:

Code: [Select]
VBR NEW    
      AVERAGE     MEDIAN        MIN        MAX
V0     221,89     220,30     188,90     266,80
V1     208,40     207,90     165,10     258,70
V2     181,46     182,20     135,10     230,30
V3     167,69     170,60     119,50     200,70
V4     154,21     156,95     106,20     184,40
V5     124,25     127,35      70,30     157,50
V6     105,81     106,90      55,40     143,40
V7      83,17      82,95      38,10     125,70
V8      68,29      66,95      32,30     102,90
V9      46,03      46,35      12,80      75,70
Code: [Select]
VBR OLD  	
      AVERAGE     MEDIAN        MIN        MAX
V0     224,67     225,95     172,90     269,30
V1     211,18     211,95     166,70     252,50
V2     188,23     189,75     143,30     225,00
V3     174,60     176,50     131,00     206,20
V4     156,66     158,00     113,00     187,00
V5     124,79     127,20      71,50     153,00
V6     106,08     107,85      56,50     137,50
V7      80,46      87,65      41,30     122,60
V8      71,00      71,60      32,90      99,20
V9      49,45      50,25      18,90      73,10
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=328359\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I prefere the median instead of the average. It's the one in the middle and its value is more resistent against outliers.

But appart from that: great work! Now we only have to find someone who is willing to do the same thing with the other music-styles 

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #63
Quote
I prefere the median instead of the average. It's the one in the middle and its value is more resistent against outliers.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=328373\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Corrected

Code: [Select]
VBR OLD					||	VBR NEW				
AVERAGE MEDIAN MIN MAX || AVERAGE MEDIAN MIN MAX
V0 224,7 226,0 172,9 269,3 || V0 221,9 220,3 188,9 266,8
V1 211,2 211,9 166,7 252,5 || V1 208,4 207,9 165,1 258,7
V2 188,2 189,7 143,3 225,0 || V2 181,5 182,2 135,1 230,3
V3 174,6 176,5 131,0 206,2 || V3 167,7 170,6 119,5 200,7
V4 156,7 158,0 113,0 187,0 || V4 154,2 157,0 106,2 184,4
V5 124,8 127,2 71,5 153,0 || V5 124,3 127,3 70,3 157,5
V6 106,1 107,8 56,5 137,5 || V6 105,8 106,9 55,4 143,4
V7 86,5 87,6 41,3 122,6 || V7 83,2 82,9 38,1 125,7
V8 71,0 71,6 32,9 99,2 || V8 68,3 67,0 32,3 102,9
V9 49,5 50,3 18,9 73,1 || V9 46,0 46,3 12,8 75,7

EDIT: V7 "old" average bitrate: 80.5 -> 86.5 (typo error).

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #64
Quote
I prefere the median instead of the average. It's the one in the middle and its value is more resistent against outliers.
Mode never gets any love.
Also the phpbb code blocks are annoying just too small for the whole table.


Back to athaa-sensitivity: Its applications are fairly limited, and the bitrate increase is IMHO too much and too unpredictable to justify being incorporated into the presets. And yet it doesn't take up bitrate comparable to moving up one quality level. It's kind of stuck in no-man's-land.

Maybe vbr-new + athaa-sensitivity would equalize out back to the same bitrate as the old presets. But I also would be worried about regressions with it. Frankly the presets are great, but I think it is too much to expect them to be perfect for all music without increasing bitrate demands too much.

So I think it should stay as it is in the alphas, possibly with a note about use. "Setting --athaa-sensitivity to 1 can improve quality with some types of very quiet music at the cost of some bitrate increase."

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #65
Quote
Back to athaa-sensitivity: Its applications are fairly limited, and the bitrate increase is IMHO too much and too unpredictable to justify being incorporated into the presets.

And? VBR is by itself unpredicatable. Just take a look on the datas I've just posted. On the contrary, the --athaa-sensitivity 1 command is just limiting the amplitude of the variation, by preventing the encoder to use too low bitrate.

Quote
Maybe vbr-new + athaa-sensitivity would equalize out back to the same bitrate as the old presets. But I also would be worried about regressions with it. Frankly the presets are great


I'd suggest you to test current presets with and without --athaa-sensitivity 1... They're far to be great.
Most often, there's no difference in bitrate. But when a difference occurs, be sure that the additionnal bits are worth.

Quote
So I think it should stay as it is in the alphas, possibly with a note about use. "Setting --athaa-sensitivity to 1 can improve quality with some types of very quiet music at the cost of some bitrate increase."


In other word, you're suggesting that people should use an alpha encoder for safety?!
BTW, I recall that the quality gain is noticeable on quit PASSAGE, and not only with quiet tracks. As long as music still have some dynamic range, the current low/mid bitrate presets are not fully safe to use if compared to ABR/CBR.

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #66
Quote
In other word, you're suggesting that people should use an alpha encoder for safety?!

I agree. Telling users to use an alpha to make use of a custom switch is the wrong solution. I also agree with the decision of the lame devs to remove --athaa-sensitivity from non-alpha builds. This is the kind of switch about which users should not need to care. If its necessary, then the encoder should automatically use it. If not, then it shouldn't. So, the question is only if and when it should be defaulted, not if the switch should be reimplemented.

The user should not need to "tune" an encoder. This is the job of the encoder. An encoder which needs additional switches for tuning is flawed and needs to be fixed. The exception obviously are developer- and tester-builds which by definition are meant to experiment.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #67
Quote
V4  154,2  157,0  106,2  184,4
V5  124,3  127,3   70,3   157,5


This is a very dramatic difference.
Surely something could be done to bridge the gap between this two quality settings?
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #68
Quote
I'd suggest you to test current presets with and without --athaa-sensitivity 1... They're far to be great.
Most often, there's no difference in bitrate. But when a difference occurs, be sure that the additionnal bits are worth.
I will do so. But I can really only test at trying them out and seeing bitrate results. I am horrible at ABX quality tests. I never make quality opinions that would require TOS8, because I know I can't back it up.

But I have limited material to test on. My classical collection is only about 30 cds, heavily weighted to 18th-19th century. If this is something that is most evident on your harpsichord music, I give up. (I hate the harpsichord ) I'll also throw some other stuff at it to see if I can get it to trigger in other circumstances... Some electronic music might do the trick.

Quote
In other word, you're suggesting that people should use an alpha encoder for safety?!
BTW, I recall that the quality gain is noticeable on quit PASSAGE, and not only with quiet tracks.
Not that people should stay with alpha, only that this needs to be looked at in more detail. Until a decision is made, why not keep the switch exposed to keep the people who want to use a-s 1 happy? And yes, I am aware of how the encoder works in general principles.


Quote
I agree. Telling users to use an alpha to make use of a custom switch is the wrong solution. I also agree with the decision of the lame devs to remove --athaa-sensitivity from non-alpha builds. This is the kind of switch about which users should not need to care. If its necessary, then the encoder should automatically use it. If not, then it shouldn't. So, the question is only if and when it should be defaulted, not if the switch should be reimplemented.
But if the decision is made not to make it default, what do the people like guru who use and like this switch do?

Quote
The user should not need to "tune" an encoder. This is the job of the encoder. An encoder which needs additional switches for tuning is flawed and needs to be fixed. The exception obviously are developer- and tester-builds which by definition are meant to experiment.

- Lyx
Then why is cbr 128 still the default encode? You have to enter at least one option to get a better quality result. But yes, I guess that too many switches exposed in the --longhelp is why we still have people who come in to tell us about their wonderful 20 parameter long encoding string. Still, there's a problem in principle that you can't have transparent quality without a lot of bits. When you need to encode to lower bitrate, something has to get left out.

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #69
Quote
Quote
The user should not need to "tune" an encoder. This is the job of the encoder. An encoder which needs additional switches for tuning is flawed and needs to be fixed. The exception obviously are developer- and tester-builds which by definition are meant to experiment.

- Lyx
Then why is cbr 128 still the default encode? You have to enter at least one option to get a better quality result...

There are two misunderstandings here:

1. I wasn't implying that with an encoder the user should not need to specify any options at all. What i meant was that the user should only need to tell the encoder *what* he wants, but not "how to achieve it". The latter part is the job of the encoder. In practice, this means that in an optimal world only quality/target bitrate should be *necessary* with bitrate-upper-limit(for streaming), number of channels and samplerate being other optional parameters. Thus, the user should specify what he needs and the encoder shall come up with the best way to deliver it.

2. I am aware that lame still has lots of switches which imho shouldn't be there. Same for some defaults. But that does that mean that you may never "start somewhere" with improving the situation? It's a process, not a 0/1-switch.

Concerning your question what shall happen if --athaa-sensitivity is NOT made the default, although evidence is brought up that it should be: Then the encoder is flawed and should be fixed. Exposing a developer-switch so that the users can fix it is not the solution. In the worst case(which i highly doubt will happen) you will have an official lame release without it being the default, and then a ha.org-modified version which has it by default. This, from a psychological as well as objective point of view(the world does not just consist of ha.org - hardly any outsider will care about the minor difference) would still be better than "letting the users fix it by exposing the switch".

It plain simply comes down to this: if the defaults are wrong, its a bug. You dont fix bugs by requiring users to patch the code.
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

 

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #70
Here's my little LAME 3.97b1 bitrate test. I gathered some rock/pop/latin/jazz/electronic tracks from my lossless archive. The selection was quite random, but I left out certain tracks that would have probably resulted extremely high or low bitrates. I ended up with 25 diverse sample tracks. I should have included more tracks, but this was about the best I could do this time.

I encoded them using V values from 0 to 9 with and without VBR New. Encoding each set of 25 tracks from the Monkey's Audio source files took about 13-14 minutes with VBR Old and 8-10 minutes with VBR New using a P4/2.8GHz. I didn't bother to measure exact times, because I used the PC for various other things during the encoding.


[!--sizeo:4--][span style=\"font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\"][!--/sizeo--]VBR OLD  (-V 0 ... -V 9)[/size]

Code: [Select]
[b]	V0	V1	V2	V3	V4	V5	V6	V7	V8	V9[/b]
252 232 204 172 157 139 127 112 93 69
256 230 199 179 162 139 122 105 90 66
261 235 206 160 143 125 118 103 86 64
255 238 212 197 181 149 129 110 92 68
237 222 195 181 166 146 135 119 101 75
241 218 195 150 135 120 112 97 83 62
262 238 213 154 139 122 114 98 82 62
250 229 202 169 154 136 123 106 87 60
221 206 184 167 151 127 114 96 82 56
268 235 203 159 144 128 120 105 85 64
227 203 179 147 133 118 109 94 81 62
236 211 185 150 135 118 109 95 80 60
225 209 185 174 158 130 111 92 77 54
253 240 216 205 188 165 146 128 107 78
266 248 226 162 146 128 118 102 85 64
244 228 206 199 182 146 125 106 88 65
246 232 207 187 171 151 136 117 95 69
234 207 176 151 135 118 109 93 77 55
261 234 206 164 148 131 123 108 90 67
229 204 180 168 154 129 108 89 75 52
224 198 174 140 126 110 102 88 76 57
268 239 212 155 140 124 116 103 87 68
245 215 186 148 133 117 110 94 80 61
248 236 211 184 166 145 136 121 102 77
218 206 187 180 164 143 124 108 91 67



[!--sizeo:4--][span style=\"font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\"][!--/sizeo--]VBR NEW (-V 0 --vbr-new ... -V 9 --vbr-new)[/size]

Code: [Select]
[b]	V0N	V1N	V2N	V3N	V4N	V5N	V6N	V7N	V8N	V9N[/b]
251 234 203 169 159 141 129 113 95 70
259 229 194 173 160 139 121 103 89 66
255 238 207 161 148 131 122 107 89 65
246 233 205 190 179 147 126 106 90 67
236 223 193 181 169 151 138 122 106 78
238 221 195 150 139 124 115 100 85 63
256 241 216 155 143 126 117 102 85 63
249 229 199 166 155 137 123 105 86 61
220 209 183 166 154 132 119 98 82 54
266 237 203 155 144 128 120 105 87 66
226 205 179 146 136 120 111 96 82 62
232 213 184 150 138 121 111 96 82 61
219 204 177 167 155 129 109 87 72 52
246 238 212 201 189 165 147 126 106 78
258 251 228 162 150 132 121 105 88 65
233 222 197 190 178 143 123 101 85 62
247 235 206 188 176 156 140 117 96 68
236 210 176 152 139 122 111 95 78 55
261 238 207 164 152 135 126 111 93 69
223 202 175 165 154 130 107 86 72 51
219 200 174 140 129 113 105 91 77 58
263 243 214 154 143 127 119 106 90 70
244 217 184 147 135 119 111 95 82 62
244 241 215 188 174 153 143 127 107 79
208 201 178 173 162 141 121 103 87 66



[!--sizeo:4--][span style=\"font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\"][!--/sizeo--]SUMMARY[/size]

Code: [Select]
[b]OLD	V0	V1	V2	V3	V4	V5	V6	V7	V8	V9[/b]
Min 218 198 174 140 126 110 102 88 75 52
Max 268 248 226 205 188 165 146 128 107 78
Average 245 224 198 168 152 132 120 104 87 64
Median 246 229 202 167 151 129 118 103 86 64
[b]NEW V0N V1N V2N V3N V4N V5N V6N V7N V8N V9N[/b]
Min 208 200 174 140 129 113 105 86 72 51
Max 266 251 228 201 189 165 147 127 107 79
Average 241 225 196 166 154 134 121 104 88 64
Median 244 229 197 165 154 132 121 103 87 65
All together and a table with track list:

 

Click the images to enlarge.


[!--sizeo:1--][span style=\"font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\"][!--/sizeo--]Edit: fixed the image links. Edit 2: fixed them again.[/size]

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #71
This should give a rough estimation of the average bitrate with VBR presets.
Also sfb21 bloat is very noticeable looking at the graphs, starting from -V2 some tracks are bloated (7,10,15). Very interesting 
Thanks to guruboolez and Alex B for these graphs.
WavPack 4.3 -mfx5
LAME 3.97 -V5 --vbr-new --athaa-sensitivity 1

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #72
Quote
Quote
V4  154,2  157,0  106,2  184,4
V5  124,3  127,3   70,3   157,5


This is a very dramatic difference.
Surely something could be done to bridge the gap between this two quality settings?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=328405"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wouldn't say it's so dramatic. If you use CBR settings, there's also 128kbps and 160kbps and nothing between them.

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #73
Quote
Quote
Quote
V4  154,2  157,0  106,2  184,4
V5  124,3  127,3   70,3   157,5


This is a very dramatic difference.
Surely something could be done to bridge the gap between this two quality settings?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=328405"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wouldn't say it's so dramatic. If you use CBR settings, there's also 128kbps and 160kbps and nothing between them.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=328574"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

IMHO the problem is not that the gap between V4 and V5, but the neglible difference in terms of average bitrate between V4 and V3. I'd say make V3 the new "medium", but with slightly higher quality than in the past, then lower the quality of V4 bit.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

Lame 3.97 beta 1 released

Reply #74
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
V4  154,2  157,0  106,2  184,4
V5  124,3  127,3   70,3   157,5


This is a very dramatic difference.
Surely something could be done to bridge the gap between this two quality settings?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=328405"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wouldn't say it's so dramatic. If you use CBR settings, there's also 128kbps and 160kbps and nothing between them.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=328574"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

IMHO the problem is not that the gap between V4 and V5, but the neglible difference in terms of average bitrate between V4 and V3. I'd say make V3 the new "medium", but with slightly higher quality than in the past, then lower the quality of V4 bit.

- Lyx
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=328580"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Yes, you are right, if you make a linear regression using the median and vbr-new, you get something like bitrate=226.01-19.815*vbr-mode.

In this case, the highest difference is V4 which is 10kbits to high. But only if you want a linear relation between vbr-mode and target-bitrate.

 
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