Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec. (Read 12459 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #25 –
Quote
OK. The pre-echo test file can be downloaded from here.  (w00t)
Oh, and if you're not able to extract WinRAR 3 RAR files, simply change the file's extension to exe.

Crappy "web hotel"

"We are sorry, but the file you are trying to download is larger than the maximum length permitted under current network conditions. Please try again later when network conditions change. The file you were trying to download was 6048989 bytes."

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #26 –
Continuum.. No i will not use a lossless encoder...  1/2 size compression is worthless to my opinion.

"Do you know what pre-echo is?"
Yes i do, don't try to make a fool out of me.
"The echo is added by the encoder, in files like castanets.wav this is rather obvious." Read above.

"Your file is full of echo from the beginning,"
No shit .. Yes it IS, full of ECHO, not PRE-ECHO which is completely different.
"so it's quite the opposite from what I would call a good pre-echo test sample. "
OK, call it what you want, but to my opinion it is an excelent pre-echo test sample.

"I'm suspecting that you hear something in the encoded files which is already in the original."
And again, read above.

And, go here.

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #27 –
Erik, this is strange.. I just tried to download both files and had no problem..
Hmm, that's a pretty interesting thing by web1000 though. Limiting max file size download by network condition. Well right now the condition is fine .

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #28 –
Quote
No i will not use a lossless encoder...  1/2 size compression is worthless to my opinion.

Why use zip or rar then?

Quote
Yes i do, don't try to make a fool out of me.

I'm sorry if I offended you... :'(  The file was just completely different from what I had expected. And the difference I noticed was not connected to pre-echo.

Quote
Yes it IS, full of ECHO, not PRE-ECHO which is completely different. [...]
OK, call it what you want, but to my opinion it is an excelent pre-echo test sample.

True, but if echo from the last hit is masking the pre-echo (produced by the encoder) from the next hit, this is not making it easier to detect differences.

Quote
And, go here.

I'll try comparing it with MPC (which definitely isn't prone to pre-echo, partially due to its design), but with OGG this sample isn't easier than many others (for me). Maybe your hearing is generally good.

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #29 –
"Why use zip or rar then?"

For distribution through the internet, for people who don't use lossless encoders so don't have the tools to convert FLAC files, of course they can easily get the tools, but i understand that many don't want to bother.
So, RAR is has very reasonable size.

"I'm sorry if I offended you..."

That's ok, don't worry about it .

"The file was just completely different from what I had expected."

I can understand that , it's different than all the test files i've heard. I guess it doesn't sound like testing material, but to my opinion it sure is. Because, well that's "real" music.

"True, but if echo from the last hit is masking the pre-echo (produced by the encoder) from the next hit, this is not making it easier to detect differences."

That's right, it is making it somewhat more difficult to detect differences. But it isn't completely masking the pre-echo, that's why it's so good. The pre-echo (to me) is always there with this sample. Very very slight with MPC, man i love this .

"....but with OGG this sample isn't easier than many others (for me). Maybe your hearing is generally good"

I believe that my hearing is better than of most people's.. And i'm happy because of it. Well, it does requiere larger files for me to be happy , so i'm not very happy after all .
I say i think my hearing is better because i often hear things others don't (not voices in my head telling me to do things ) and i guess that a part of it is because my eyes aren't good at -all-.. So, less seeing, more hearing ...
plus, i have bigger than avarage ears ..

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #30 –
Quote
For distribution through the internet, for people who don't use lossless encoders so don't have the tools to convert FLAC files, of course they can easily get the tools, but i understand that many don't want to bother.

On this board, I think it's a safe guess to assume that people who would bother to download test samples already have flac or would download it. Rar's compression ratio is quite good, but linux incompatible, and zip's compression is almost neglectible.
But as I'm on cable, I would have downloaded .wavs as well. 

Quote
The pre-echo (to me) is always there with this sample. Very very slight with MPC, man i love this .

How do you compare the difficulty to find the difference to classical pre-echo files, like castanets.wav?

Quote
I believe that my hearing is better than of most people's..

What I meant was, that this sample wasn't easier than many others. So, although I could detect a difference (which I can with many files) I didn't notice the pre-echo you described.

Quote
i often hear things others don't (not voices in my head telling me to do things )

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #31 –
"On this board, I think it's a safe guess to assume that people who would bother to download test samples already have flac or would download it."

Yes, you're right. So from now on i'll use FLAC or Monkey's Audio.

"How do you compare the difficulty to find the difference to classical pre-echo files, like castanets.wav?"

It's very close, almost as hard, but not as hard with castanets.wav
Again, i say WOW, the pre-echo handling of MPC is amazing, definately the best.

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #32 –
yup here the same
Made in Portugal

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #33 –
Quote
It's very close, almost as hard, but not as hard with castanets.wav

Interesting. Ogg q9 is not too difficult for me with castanets, but q6 revealed no pre-echo in your sample, only noise problems. I think I'll have to investigate a little further later.

Quote
yup here the same

???

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #34 –
Ogg is so very different than other formats.. Ogg's artifacts are way different, and it handles various sounds in a way i don't understand  It's interesting me.
However, though currently it has many things to be improved i believe there's a very good future for Ogg Vorbis.

"Interesting. Ogg q9 is not too difficult for me with castanets, but q6 revealed no pre-echo in your sample"
I'm afraid i haven't been very clear, so just in case.. i meant that with castanets it's easier to notice the pre-echo.

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #35 –
I ABAed ogg q 8 as well, still not noticing any pre-echo. There are some disturbances in the way the echo is vanishing after a beat (little tremolo, maybe caused by the weird instrument at second 14, brigther, which I have noticed in other samples before).

I think I noticed a difference with MPC (standard), but was not in the condition to perform an ABX-test anymore.

I still believe you a hearing something different from classical pre-echo, because, as KikeG points out in the other thread, MPC is nearly immune against pre-echo at higher bitrates.

Quote
I'm afraid i haven't been very clear, so just in case.. i meant that with castanets it's easier to notice the pre-echo.
yes, but:
Quote
It's very close, almost as hard, but not as hard with castanets.wav

For me the difference is huge: castanets is obvious, while I don't notice any pre-echo with your sample.

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #36 –
Quote
Yes, you're right. So from now on i'll use FLAC or Monkey's Audio.

Don't use Monkey's audio... The few percentages you gain in comparision with FLAC are negligable compared to the fact that it's less cross platform compatible than FLAC... 

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #37 –
Yeah, exactly.. FLAC it is then.

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #38 –
Could somebody please re-upload the file? Didnt have a possibility to dl it yet. Thx

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #39 –
Quote
Could somebody please re-upload the file? Didnt have a possibility to dl it yet. Thx

If you're referring to flac 1.0.4, you can d/l it from Mirror 1, below.

AAC vs OGG vorbis audio codec.

Reply #40 –
Quote
Quote
Could somebody please re-upload the file? Didnt have a possibility to dl it yet. Thx

If you're referring to flac 1.0.4, you can d/l it from Mirror 1, below.

...but if you are refering to SK1's sample (whose server seems to be instable right now), I have mirrored it here: http://www.freewebz.com/aleph/pre-echo-SK.flac (4.99 MB)