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Topic: FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released (Read 35521 times) previous topic - next topic
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FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Since it's been so long since the last FLAC release I wanted to have at least one beta before FLAC 1.1.1 comes out.  The usual warning applies: do not use for archival.

The number of changes, fixes, and additions is pretty large.  The current changelog can be dug out of CVS:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*che...og.html?rev=1.4

Some of the big stuff:
- seeking support in Ogg FLAC, including seekable encoder/decoder interfaces
- callback-based metadata editing (that one's just for you Peter!)
- decoding speed optimizations for PPC thanks to Brady Patterson.  decoding speed on OS X almost doubled.
- many fixes and a lot of new options people have asked for

Things that are still missing:
- final Ogg FLAC bitstream mapping is not quite finished yet, so it's OK to make streams for testing but they might have to be converted with official flac 1.1.1 later to be streamable in ogg tools
- some pending fixes to winamp2 plugins

I have not published the release to the FLAC site.  For downloads go to the sourceforge download page:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=13478

For this release I have broken up the win32 binary release into two.  The normal one just has binaries/docs and the -dev one has the libraries/DLLs, include files, and API docs.  The other platform binary releases have only flac/metaflac and basic docs since it's much more common to build them from source anyway, or get RPM/Debian/Fink packages.

I ask you all to beat it up and let me know what you find.

Thanks,
Josh

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #1 –
Great news. Just in time for my new 200GB hard drive 
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #2 –
Any change in compression ratio?
No plan for adding a another tagging format (like APEv2, in order to avoid slowness of tag editing or the waste of space introduced by padding)?
Wavpack Hybrid: one encoder for all scenarios
WavPack -c4.5hx6 (44100Hz & 48000Hz) ≈ 390 kbps + correction file
WavPack -c4hx6 (96000Hz) ≈ 768 kbps + correction file
WavPack -h (SACD & DSD) ≈ 2400 kbps at 2.8224 MHz

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #3 –
Quote
Any change in compression ratio?
No plan for adding a another tagging format (like APEv2, in order to avoid slowness of tag editing or the waste of space introduced by padding)?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yet another way to tag FLAC == bad. [a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=24581]There is enough mess in this area already.[/url]
Optional backwards-compatible padding of comment block for fast updates == good.
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #4 –
padding is not always sufficient (i.e. when the amount of additionnal datas are really big).
I could imagine that three tagging format is a messy situation, but the two available tagging system are both located on the beginning, which is not the most conveniant place for the basic user (for streaming, it's another story).

For me, it's the worse aspect of flac :/
Wavpack Hybrid: one encoder for all scenarios
WavPack -c4.5hx6 (44100Hz & 48000Hz) ≈ 390 kbps + correction file
WavPack -c4hx6 (96000Hz) ≈ 768 kbps + correction file
WavPack -h (SACD & DSD) ≈ 2400 kbps at 2.8224 MHz

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #5 –
Quote
padding is not always sufficient (i.e. when the amount of additionnal datas are really big).
I could imagine that three tagging format is a messy situation, but the two available tagging system are both located on the beginning, which is not the most conveniant place for the basic user (for streaming, it's another story).

For me, it's the worse aspect of flac :/
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=230697"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I've noticed that when batch-tagging a lot of FLAC files, it can take a long time, and the hard drive really churns. Is this the reason why?

Does Wavpack handle this differently?
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #6 –
Wavpack uses APEv2 tags, which are written at the end of the file, hence the file does not have to be rewritten completely on tag-updates.

Make sure you add enough padding (--padding=4096 is generally considered sufficient for most users - it's FLAC's default setting) when encoding FLACs.
"To understand me, you'll have to swallow a world." Or maybe your words.

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #7 –
Quote
Any change in compression ratio?

No, there probably won't be any major compression improvements without breaking forward compatibility (i.e. old decoders still being able to decode it).  I think stability of the format is more important than a few % more compression.  FLAC is making more inroads into distribution and hardware and the stability and low decode complexity are major factors in that.

Quote
No plan for adding a another tagging format (like APEv2, in order to avoid slowness of tag editing or the waste of space introduced by padding)?

No.  Tags at the front are better for streaming.  Judicious use of padding almost always makes file rewrites unnecessary.  A few extra K of padding in a multimegabyte file is not much of a waste.

The winamp2 plugin's tag updating does not take care of padding very well though; that's on the TODO list to fix.

Josh

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #8 –
Quote
No.  Tags at the front are better for streaming.  Judicious use of padding almost always makes file rewrites unnecessary.  A few extra K of padding in a multimegabyte file is not much of a waste.


pardon my ignorance, but who is gona stream a FLAC file? ... they are at bet 40% of a WAV ... or i'm missing something?

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #9 –
This tagging issue is not a big issue. normal flac files are large enough so that I always add 32kbyte padding. It is not even noticable. And I am a keen tag user, but this size was always enough. (OT: At the same time I yet to see large number of SW which can display my multiline metadata. Foobar is an exception.)

I definitely wish for simplicity. Id3v2 is enough eyesore to me in FLAC. I'd say now that FLAC is under Xiph umbrella it should use Vorbis tags only and not have yet another tagging system. There are already a number of newbies confused by the presence of 2 tagging.

Thanks Josh for your good work.

Triza

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #10 –
Quote
Quote
No.  Tags at the front are better for streaming.  Judicious use of padding almost always makes file rewrites unnecessary.  A few extra K of padding in a multimegabyte file is not much of a waste.


pardon my ignorance, but who is gona stream a FLAC file? ... they are at bet 40% of a WAV ... or i'm missing something?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=230716"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The same people who will stream DVDs and HDTV with VLS and VLC?

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #11 –
Any chance we could ever see something like

Code: [Select]
flac -d --split-by-cue Album.flac


to decode a file and split it by internal cuesheet?
--
Eric

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #12 –
Quote
The same people who will stream DVDs and HDTV with VLS and VLC?

jeje ... i can't even stream Mp3's on my ADSL connection .. :|

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #13 –
Quote
Quote
No.  Tags at the front are better for streaming.  Judicious use of padding almost always makes file rewrites unnecessary.  A few extra K of padding in a multimegabyte file is not much of a waste.

pardon my ignorance, but who is gona stream a FLAC file? ... they are at bet 40% of a WAV ... or i'm missing something?

I think it may prove useful in home networks, which have more than enough bandwidth.

Quote
I definitely wish for simplicity. Id3v2 is enough eyesore to me in FLAC. I'd say now that FLAC is under Xiph umbrella it should use Vorbis tags only and not have yet another tagging system. There are already a number of newbies confused by the presence of 2 tagging.

Actually ID3v2 is not a part of FLAC.  Some plugins support ID3v2 on FLAC for convenience but it's not required.

Quote
Any chance we could ever see something like

Code: [Select]
flac -d --split-by-cue Album.flac


to decode a file and split it by internal cuesheet?

That's a nice idea, but will probably also need some way of specifiying how the files should be named.

You can already do this with flac --cue in a little script, i.e. get the # of tracks with, say

Code: [Select]
metaflac --list file.flac | awk '/number of tracks:/ { print $4 }'


and then do 'flac -d --cue=...' for each one.

Josh

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #14 –
Quote
I think it may prove useful in home networks, which have more than enough bandwidth.

sorry, but, why can't we have a 2 modes stadard, at the front for streaming, and at the end for normal ... and ay yhe front it would be some flag telling the decoder what mode are we using?

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #16 –
It's just that padding is a waste of space. If I really want to be sure to have enough padded space, I need something like 32 or 64 kb/file. It's my usage of tags, at least for some files. On a big library, the amount of padded information could be important: 200...500 MB. I know that HD storage is cheap nowadays, by this kind of waste is specific to flac: OptimFROG, WavPack, TTA, Monkey's Audio offer a more convieniant tagging system.
Wavpack Hybrid: one encoder for all scenarios
WavPack -c4.5hx6 (44100Hz & 48000Hz) ≈ 390 kbps + correction file
WavPack -c4hx6 (96000Hz) ≈ 768 kbps + correction file
WavPack -h (SACD & DSD) ≈ 2400 kbps at 2.8224 MHz

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #17 –
I uploaded foobar2000 flac decoder which was updated to use new callback based tag editing and OggFLAC tagging was fixed. Thanks JC for the much needed library update.

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #18 –
Quote
But why? What does it do that the current setup (with padding) cannot accomplish?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=230757"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


cause when you change a tag, you could end up rewriting all the file ... like in ogg

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #19 –
Quote
I need something like 32 or 64 kb/file. It's my usage of tags, at least for some files.


What kind of information do you add to the tags that you need 32-64kB padding?

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #20 –
May I ask what are the pending Winamp plugin fixes?

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #21 –
Quote
Quote
I need something like 32 or 64 kb/file. It's my usage of tags, at least for some files.


What kind of information do you add to the tags that you need 32-64kB padding?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=230943"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Could be a ripping (EAC) log file, a complete review or article about the composition, the  full libretto, etc...
Wavpack Hybrid: one encoder for all scenarios
WavPack -c4.5hx6 (44100Hz & 48000Hz) ≈ 390 kbps + correction file
WavPack -c4hx6 (96000Hz) ≈ 768 kbps + correction file
WavPack -h (SACD & DSD) ≈ 2400 kbps at 2.8224 MHz

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #22 –
I have a feature request here, which apparently hasn't been considered for the new version.

Please save away all the metadata chunks in WAV files along with the audio.

Without support for saving away data like that, Flac cannot be used to archive audio in the professional broadcast and film range, which will usualy be in the Broadcast WAV format, which just adds a bunch of chunks to the file.

Flac skips this stuff atm, thereby destroying all the information contained within. This information includes timecode values and various forms of descriptions. Virtualy all the recent audio database software uses meta data in Broadcast WAVs to store information on the specific sound, which it then integrates in to its databases. To rebuild the database in case of loss these applications simpy scans all the Broadcast WAVs for metadata.

Please don't "Skip" all this information. It renders Flac invisible to the professional audio world.

My profound thanks for Flac, regardless.
Tony

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #23 –
Wildcard support for windows is not working yet.
I thought it would be added on the next version (this version  )

FLAC 1.1.1-beta1 released

Reply #24 –
Quote
Could be a ripping (EAC) log file, a complete review or article about the composition, the  full libretto, etc...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=230949"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Just my 2 cents, but you should look in to Matroska if you are storing that much extra data. I've been using it for flac images + log files, cover art, etc. It works out very well esp with foobar as the player.
--
Eric